Prefix - Supercapped or hicap

John
If by naimed LP12 you mean ARO and Armageddon then yes go for the hicap on prefix as the next logical move. If you haven't got an Armageddon do that instead. I found it a bigger and more fundamental improvement.

regards
Steve

Mark, my 52 drops in performance slightly when a CD player is plugged in. Now I have my CD player unplugged for this reason. The difference is significant in my opinion. If a highcap resolves this it would be worthwhile but if I could take the LP12 to new heights with a supercap I would go this route as vinyl is my only source now.

I haven't heard the Groove and don't think it's even a possibility where I live.

Kan Man, my LP12 has an ARO/Armegeddon.

John

A prefix responds very well to a better PSU, but IMO a Supercap that you would only be using a very small proportion of is a waste of money. It will work a lot better, but the unused bits that you will be paying a fortune for would bother me, along with the gargantuan box.

If this is not an issue then try it!

I feel Naim should make a decent two rail PSU for the Prefix, at a more sensible price, but maybe the demand isn't there?

A Tom Evans Groove would be far better value, and sound better to boot.

Andy.

If the ultimate objective is a 552 (I think the consensus here is it should be with anything like your setup) then logically, any step not on that path is wasted.That means any change to phono stage, adding dedicated PS to prefix (if you have to part with cash for it) and virtually any other expense on the rest of the sistem except possibly for a large cartridge or TT upgrade or most importantly, more records.

In my (humble) opinion the supercap is far better, I never did try powering it direct from my 52 but had it on a Hicap. I got a great deal on a second hand supercap so went for it, the difference is quite stunning, but I would probably have stuck with the Hicap if I was looking at paying near or full price for the supercap.

Tim

quote:

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Originally posted by Andrew L. Weekes:

I feel Naim should make a decent two rail PSU for the Prefix, at a more sensible price, but maybe the demand isn't there?

Andy.

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Alternatively has anyone contemplated hard wiring a Burndy to a Prefix thus making better use of teh S'cap potential?


Willy.

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has anyone contemplated hard wiring a Burndy to a Prefix thus making better use of teh S'cap potential?
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I did but I had to remove the Armageddon/Naim plug that blanks the hole where the Linn speed switch normally goes to allow cable access

If you can Supercap the Prefix, it is well worth doing--the difference between a Prefix/Hicap and a Prefix/Supercap is large. And as I recall, Chris Koster has posted that the Prefix/Supercap is preferable to a 552 powered Prefix.

Also, a friend of mine has the Groove and prefers the Prefix. YMMV.

Best Regards and Happy Holidays!

Bob

quote:

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Originally posted by Bosh:
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has anyone contemplated hard wiring a Burndy to a Prefix thus making better use of teh S'cap potential?
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I did but I had to remove the Armageddon/Naim plug that blanks the hole where the Linn speed switch normally goes to allow cable access

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Bosh,

Presume you hard wired several of the S'cap supplies to the prefix board? How did it sound?

Willy.

I can confirm that getting a seperate***cap for your prefix does offer big improvements. It also improves all other inputs of the 52, as mentioned above, as it reduces the load on the 52/Scap. To take this even further, do remove the phono (K?) cards from your 52, for the same reason.(insert "straight through" boards to convert input 1 to line level)

I extensively auditioned The Groove at home: great "hi-fi".....ultimately I found it rather synthetic and uninvolving compared to the prefix. It never really "disappeared" in the way the prefix does.I`m sure it would work well in some systems

best wishes
Laurie S

Merry Christmas everyone.

Thanks for the input. So I am looking at either sourcing a used SC for my prefix, buying SL2s or a 300. The cost difference is HUGE. With a used SC costing approx. $2,500US and SL2s costing around $6,000US net of selling my SBLs and a 300 costing approx $7,000US net of selling my 135s. Which option would bring more music? (XX2/S prefix/52/Supercap/135s/SBLs) My instinct is the SC regardless of the price difference. Any opinions?

Also I have an 4-5pin cable that is labelled NA-22 and it is grey. Is this the latest cable?

John

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The Supercap's noise voltage is lower than any other power supply option.

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Well, at least the Naim-offered ones anyway

A Supercap is bloody noisy by state-of-the-art standards, and a two-channel version that would be considerably better VFM, could be designed, if Naim chose to do so.

Andy.

[This message was edited by Andrew L. Weekes on THURSDAY 26 December 2002 at 19:39.]

Just read in recent "Image HiFi" review of 552: The reviewer found the prefix directly connected to the 552 better than with Supercap.

- Jun

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Don't forget: cleaning records ruins them. Unless they are already ruined. Then, only use a Keith Monks, or equivalent.

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Interesting comment Chris. What's your take on it--insufficient dry time before playing disk, chemical residue from cleaners (filling the groove) or ...something else?

regards,

dave

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Don't forget: cleaning records ruins them. Unless they are already ruined. Then, only use a Keith Monks, or equivalent.

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In my 35 year obsession with vinyl LPs, I have found the VPI record cleaning machine to be a huge benefit. Greatly improving records' sound and reducing stylus wear.

I think we'd all like to hear your evidence of "Ruins them"


malcolm

[This message was edited by Rockingdoc on FRIDAY 27 December 2002 at 10:45.]

Slim,

"Like I said I guess you have never tried a supercap with a prefix in your own system, what front end are you using?"

Wrong, have tried it, sounds marvellous - I've never said that it didn't. FE is LP12 / Ittok / Klyde / Prefix / Lingo, obviously not good enough

The simple fact is that, in a Prefix application, the major proportion of the contents of a Supercap is unused - this is MY problem with VFM. Not a bold statement, simply a fact!

This does not bother many, because: -

a) it sounds great

b) they are none the wiser

c) they cannot do anything about it

I'm afraid it's not appropriate to discuss the latter part of your comment here, suffice to say I categorically DO NOT modify Naim kit for others, only for me.

The noise voltage, both dynamically and statically of a Supercap, along with it's bandwidth, settling times, line rejection, and output impedance are all worse than a well-implemented discrete regulator can offer.

"... and what is the projected cost of the pre-power you are designing for sale on pfm."

No such thing exists, you must have misread!

Whilst on the subject, the design of class B / AB amplifiers for audio requires a huge attention to a multitude of details, Naim do this EXCEPTIONALLY well, in my experience. I do not have sufficient experience to claim that I could ever produce something better than Naim in this area, currently. I do know my own limitations, and am generally ruthlessly honest about them.

Andy.

[This message was edited by Andrew L. Weekes on FRIDAY 03 January 2003 at 09:52.]

I would love to see a PSU specifically designed for the prefix. Maybe Chris Koster can comment as to whether there is any hope.

John

i was looking for somewhere to post my experiments with hicap vs supercap to power a nac112 -- i know this thread is mostly about prefix/supercap, so apologies for hijacking ...

my active system is disconnected right now, so am using my nac112/150 system. this has given me a chance to try different power options on this little preamp.

well, what can i say? the supercap completely, totally, transformed the sound of my nac112/nap150 (driving sbl's surprising enough -- mullet?)

the musical balance was much better and much more "comfortable" -- (less "shouty"), bass more clearly defined and the music very much more comfortable and enjoyable to listen to. the system sounded "bigger" -- not as much detail as the bigger brothers like nac52, but what detail was there was in the right perspective.

interestingly, going from nocap to hicap to supercap, what i noticed was that the first two stages, i was in a critical listening mode, whereas with the supercap, i immediately relaxed and started enjoying whatever cd i put on.

this has definitely spurred ( ) me on to try the supercap on my prefix -- sounds wasteful -- but if the experience with the nac112 is anything to by -- this may take the sound of my already very good lp12 another notch up --

wow !!!

enjoy

ken

I can definately say I prefer the Prefix/552 to a Prefix/HiCAP.

Although I have not heard a Prefix/Supercap compared to a Prefix/552.

Richard