Kans and bass(???)

I agree with Justin et al. exactly-- the Kans are quite a bit of fun, but they dont sound "real"-- they sound thin. There is NO WAY an orchestra is in front of you.

But the singer is-- sometimes.

A pair of NEAT Critiques-- one of my favorite, (but under discussed) speakers has arrived for demo against my Mystique floorstanders. On last hearing a pair in my home, they were super-fast, very involving, very tuneful in the bass and get this-- absolutely believable on many recordings-- very present.

I think the Mystiques may have more bass and be a better balanced speaker overall, but the are a touch more laid back and thus (for me) a bit less present than the Critique. One of the things I like about the Kan is its mid-forward type projection. The Critique has this as well and more NAIMies should consider them.

I too, as I have posted in the past, did not get on with the NEAT Petite 3 either from the standpoint of bass or tonality. But I sure loved the little Critique standmount a whole lot.

If I like them more than my Mystiques, I think I'll sell those and keep the Critiques and a pair of Kans, and look for a pair of TC-50's maybe.

David

PS-- thanks to all who responded to my orig. question about Kan bass.

By the way-- how DO you get Kans close to the wall with NACA 5 plugged in. It is not very flexible and the banana plugs take up like 2 inches as it is. So that leaves you like 3-4 inches out without bending the hell out of the wire.

quote:

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Originally posted by onlythat:
By the way-- how DO you get Kans close to the wall with NACA 5 plugged in. It is not very flexible and the banana plugs take up like 2 inches as it is. So that leaves you like 3-4 inches out without bending the hell out of the wire.

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Naim speaker plugs - the wire comes into the plugs from the side, parallel to the wall, rather from the end of the plug like the ones that you mentioned. The plug has a hole in the side rather than the end; you run the wire into the hole and solder it there. Voila, a 90 degree bend. This allows you to bring the speakers within one inch of the wall.

Cheers

Keith.

"This allows you to bring the speakers within one inch of the wall."

But only if your Kan's are not early mark 1's with the binding posts. Even with the naim plugs the best I can do is about 1.75"

Still considering doing a bit of surgery...

regards,

michael

Man -- who would have though set up for a pair of tiny speakers that go against a wall would be sooooo difficult?
In addition to the wire problem, there is the problem of my rug being a bit bunched or "peaked" right against the wall, so the back of the stand is higher than the front. I have had to tweak all the front spikes to their max to get them almost level.
BTW, my stands are the 4 pillar sound orgs. I want to know if there is THAT much of a difference if I use the KAN 2 stands. What do they improve? My stands are already light and rigid with spikes under the speakers.
Also, I did a bit of listening to the Critiques last night-- At first I thought "oh yeah-- I'm keeping them!" then, upon further listening, the midrange is not as full as the Mystique. The speaker IS faster than its floorstanding big brother.
Moreover, there is a Kan-like thinness to the sound. Not AS thin, but thinner than the Mystique. Also, they image like bastards. It seems much better than the Mystique in this regard-- BUUUUTT it is somewhat distracting.
They have more bass than the Kans, but not as much as the Mystiques. They are faster than the Mystiques, but not as quick as Kans. They also sound "airier" than the Kans or Mystiques, but again-- it seems more "HIFI" than musically helpful.
Now what I REALLY need is a speaker with the overall balance of the Mystique but with a bit more projection in the mids--
I wonder if putting mana under the Mystiques will help?

Hi,

I have owed both the sound org "clones" and the Linn Kan II stands. The Linn stands are a bit heavier, but I didn't figure them to be any more rigid. The extra weight helps them to couple to the floor a bit better (particlularly if you have carpet).

That said, the stand + kan is NOt heavy, by any stretch of the imagination. Hence, you really need to cut small slits in your carpet and make sure the spikes slide through them smoothly, and do not get caught up at all. I used to think that if I just "stood" on my stands so that the spikes penetrated the carpet, that would be OK. But it is not. The weave of the carpet supports a fair percentage of the downforce created by the speaker and stand. Hence, unless you have cut slits into it, you aren't going to get a good connection between the floor and the stand.

This is not nit-picking. The key to making these speakers work (because they have essentially no inertia on thier own--they are too light) is to prevent the box from goinging backwards as the woofer driver goes forward, and vice versa. Let's not forget Newton's second law (or is it the first law?): for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The voice coil experiences a force vis-a-vis the magnet assembly (an electromagnetic force via the interaction of a current passed through the coil and a magnetic field created by the magnet), which it translates to the diaphram. However, an equal an opposite force is experienced by the magnet assembly via the same mechanism. The magnet assembly is attached to the speaker. You have to hold the speaker still in order to ensure that as much force as possible causes the driver to move, not the cabinet. You fail to achieve this goal if your stands are "floating" on op of your carpet weave.

As for the cables. You should use the Naim 90 degree plugs. These work great with kan II's and permit you to get it within about .5 inches from the wall.

Judd

The sound org stands I have are not the Linn stand clones. They have thicker, sand-fillable pillars. You can see them at audioadvisor.com. They are the 135.00 ones.

Oh, i see. Those won't get the most from the Kan II's. You need the Kan stand clones (which are not exactly clones, but they follow the same basic idea, which is light and rigid, and which allow close placement to the wall. They are open fraim types.

I have a pair if you are interested in them. I have not used them in some time. They look pretty much brand new. Or you can spring for new Kan II stands. Kan II stands are about $225 the pair, but they are worth it.

juddson1@msn.com
judd

Ditto what the previous posts have said. Kans require the open-frame, four post style stands. Sound Org DID make stands like that some time ago; I had my Tukans on them to great effect. My personal opinion is that either those stands or the Kan II stands are the ones you want.

Kan's don't work well on heavy, single-post stands. Lord knows why, but they just don't.

Props to those that brought up the Spica TC-50s. I remember auditioning a pair with a Cyrus amp back around 1985 or so and really wanting them (I was quite poor then). I now have a pair of their bigger brother TC-60s. They don't have nearly the bass definition of the TC-50s or the Kans, but I bring them out once in a while for some round earth fun (yes, it's possible). They're especially nice on choral works, and are smoother in the mids without being boring.

I'd love to score an old pair of TC-50s. Are all of the TC-50 owners using the old Chicago Speaker Stands with them? What stands out there now would suffice? Kan II stands maybe?

Oh, as for the question of putting Mana under the stands; I have no experience with them, but I know a fair number of people that would indicate that it would work. But you want to optimize what you have first before you even consider that route. It sounds to me like you want a pro to get to your carpet and stretch it out again.

Cheers

Keith.

I am interested in your stands Justin. Are they nearly as good as Kan 2 stands or not close or what??

Also-- can you tell me from your experience with Kans if the construction of the wall they sit against is terribly important?

Keith,

I just love to talk about Spicas.

Spica recommended the CHicago stands for the 50's and the 60's. These were great stands, at leats one other company figured they could improve on them. The owner of Sound Anchor was (still is) a TC-50 lover, and he designed a special interface between the speaker his stands which rigidly coupled them to the stand via a few ball bearings and a couple of bolts drilled into the bottom of the speaker. The user could actually "tune"the resonant frequency of the cabinet by adjusting the torque on these screws. I used to have a pair of the Sound Anchors, and they were amazing. They are still available (along with the hardwear). Atlatis stands works well too.

But, I must say that I used my TC-50's on a pair of Kan stand clones (sound org) for many years, and they were really great. I think the 50's is, overall, less sensitive to stands than other speaker are. They benefit from heavy stands, no doubt. But they still sound the way they should even on light open fraim types.

Funny thing with TC-50's and pricing. The most they ever retailed for on this side of the pond was $550 (that would have been 1990 or so). I see them go on ebay anywhere from 275.00 (with and without stands) to an eye popping $450! (with and without stands). Values are all over the place. They have retailed thier value VERY well, no doubt because they have a fairly dedicated following. (for what it's worth, about 10 years ago Stereophile did a "10 best" used audio gear article. From what i can recall, the only speaker on the list was the TC-50. Does anybody have this issue and would like to share what it says).

When the TC-60's came out, I remember lugging my TC-50's to the shop for a demo. I loved the 50's so much that I thought the 60's would be amazing. But, as you said, the 60's are a bit different. They have "more" bass, but it's not nearly as good. And they don't do the midrange thing nearly as well either. They are too round earth and no flat earth. The 50's havee both.

My two favorate Spicas are the TC-50's and the SC-30's. The 30's, incase you are not familiar, is a good sized stand mounted box (kinda taller and thinner than usual) that uses what appears to be a completely off the shelf paper mid/base drive and a paper cone tweeter (that's right, NOT a dome or inverted dome). The box was really impressively solid and inert. This speaker bowled me over the first time I heard it. And the guy said, "you know, if you like this sound, you should hear what they can do with a good set of drivers (relative term, the TC-50 driver uses a $29 woofer and $12 tweeter). I've never looked back.

The SC-30 has a sence of organic "rightness" to it that I had never heard before. I have not seen a pair on 12 years.

Onlythat:

For Kans, I figure the sound orgs are about as good. I have never compared them, so i don't know for sure. But, many people use them with Kans and Tukans (I for one have). The designs are pretty much identical, and the build quality is in my opinion the same.

In my house, the walls are pretty solid. The house is more than 50 years old, and so we don't have any standard drywall. I think Kans benefit from a solid wall. If you have standard drywall, try it out and see if you like the results. Can't hurt.

Have to agree with keith, by the way, kans don't sound do hot on heavy stands. Don't know why (also, proacs sound like warm shit on light open fraim type stands. Also don't know why).

Judd

Just picked up a pair of Snell K II's second hand. I'll give these a go. The Kans are on the market.