Naim’s frustrating distributed audio strategy
Posted by: JYOW on 17 May 2010
Naim’s frustrating distributed audio strategy
I don’t think I am alone in all this. My following BS’ing will probably make me an enemy of the state so be it.
I can call myself amongst other things a pioneer in distributed audio. Like a couple of folks here in the Naim forum I have enjoyed Slim Devices since they had the Squeezebox 2 and went on to experiment with different DACs and eventually upgraded to their more audiophile Transporter.
To get better sound lately I also bought into the iTunes concept and bought a Macbook pro to connect to a Weiss DAC2. And with Naim’s introduction of nDAC I jumped ship and switched to that to connect to my Macbook with M2tech Hiface.
And throughout all these years I have waited for Naim to come up with that simple streamer that delivers Naim sound. And repeatedly all I saw was near misses - Products that seem to be almost there but missed the mark completely.
It all started with the HDX…..
A very promising device that unfortunately also included all the costly unnecessary noise making hardware built in, which include a CD transport, 2 X hard drives, a touch screen that no one ever touches, and an espresso maker . But worst of all, this means that Naim has to develop costly rocket science to isolate all those noise makers that do not need to be there in the first place. So we have a worst case scenario here, customers have to pay for all the unnecessary peripherals AND the expensive measures to reduce the impacts caused by the noise made by these peripherals. The worst part is, it will only approach the performance of the same device with all those peripherals stripped off.
It is like a formula one car that has its brake full on all the time and a super engine to compensate for that friction.
The most ironic thing is since we associate price with performance, so everyone starts to associate the HDX to the similarly priced CDX2 , the CDS3 or even a CD555. Which makes me think, if Naim removes all the peripherals and stick the same DAC as the CD555 wouldn’t it sound way better than the CD555?
--
I guess Naim is struggling internally. On the one hand it wants to get into distributed audio. On the other hand, a high end client with no CD inside would kill the myth of the high end CD transport, which similarly is a solution that no longer needs that problem (of real time CD reading.) I speculate that a chunk of the parts cost and R&D that go into the CD555 is on the “quiet room” to deafen the CD transport. Well with distributed audio all that is not needed.
But from reading through past discussion I don’t think Naim has a problem with having both HIGH END products co-existing. There will always be people who only treasure the touchee feelee of a silver disc and a sexy transport. Those same people will not touch distributed audio with a 10 feet pole due to their own attachment with the physical world OR the fact that they are not comfortable with tinkering with computers. I cannot, for example, ever picture my father being able to get into distributed audio. So for these people the privilege of owning a CD555 is still very much valid.
But for the rest of us, please could Naim not worry about jumping into the purist high end distributed client with both feet.
It is very simple, just do what Linn does and do it better. Design a HDX like machine with killer server and playback software, killer Naim power section and killer digital and DAC section. In fact, it could be as simple as asking the Naim DAC to grow an Ethernet port. And all that talk about S/PDIF RF noise and transport jitter is academic.
When can we have a higher end Unity, UnitCute and a Unitserve without all the freebees? Is distributed audio only for the all-in-one UNI folks?
It really is ironic, all Naim has to do is to subscribe to the “less is more” concept. Which is what attracted me to the simplicity Nait 2 decades ago.
I sense an internal struggle over at Naim land. But just ask yourself, how many Uni’s and HDXs have you sold? How many DS’s have Linn sold in the past few years?
I don’t think I am alone in all this. My following BS’ing will probably make me an enemy of the state so be it.
I can call myself amongst other things a pioneer in distributed audio. Like a couple of folks here in the Naim forum I have enjoyed Slim Devices since they had the Squeezebox 2 and went on to experiment with different DACs and eventually upgraded to their more audiophile Transporter.
To get better sound lately I also bought into the iTunes concept and bought a Macbook pro to connect to a Weiss DAC2. And with Naim’s introduction of nDAC I jumped ship and switched to that to connect to my Macbook with M2tech Hiface.
And throughout all these years I have waited for Naim to come up with that simple streamer that delivers Naim sound. And repeatedly all I saw was near misses - Products that seem to be almost there but missed the mark completely.
It all started with the HDX…..
A very promising device that unfortunately also included all the costly unnecessary noise making hardware built in, which include a CD transport, 2 X hard drives, a touch screen that no one ever touches, and an espresso maker . But worst of all, this means that Naim has to develop costly rocket science to isolate all those noise makers that do not need to be there in the first place. So we have a worst case scenario here, customers have to pay for all the unnecessary peripherals AND the expensive measures to reduce the impacts caused by the noise made by these peripherals. The worst part is, it will only approach the performance of the same device with all those peripherals stripped off.
It is like a formula one car that has its brake full on all the time and a super engine to compensate for that friction.
The most ironic thing is since we associate price with performance, so everyone starts to associate the HDX to the similarly priced CDX2 , the CDS3 or even a CD555. Which makes me think, if Naim removes all the peripherals and stick the same DAC as the CD555 wouldn’t it sound way better than the CD555?
--
I guess Naim is struggling internally. On the one hand it wants to get into distributed audio. On the other hand, a high end client with no CD inside would kill the myth of the high end CD transport, which similarly is a solution that no longer needs that problem (of real time CD reading.) I speculate that a chunk of the parts cost and R&D that go into the CD555 is on the “quiet room” to deafen the CD transport. Well with distributed audio all that is not needed.
But from reading through past discussion I don’t think Naim has a problem with having both HIGH END products co-existing. There will always be people who only treasure the touchee feelee of a silver disc and a sexy transport. Those same people will not touch distributed audio with a 10 feet pole due to their own attachment with the physical world OR the fact that they are not comfortable with tinkering with computers. I cannot, for example, ever picture my father being able to get into distributed audio. So for these people the privilege of owning a CD555 is still very much valid.
But for the rest of us, please could Naim not worry about jumping into the purist high end distributed client with both feet.
It is very simple, just do what Linn does and do it better. Design a HDX like machine with killer server and playback software, killer Naim power section and killer digital and DAC section. In fact, it could be as simple as asking the Naim DAC to grow an Ethernet port. And all that talk about S/PDIF RF noise and transport jitter is academic.
When can we have a higher end Unity, UnitCute and a Unitserve without all the freebees? Is distributed audio only for the all-in-one UNI folks?
It really is ironic, all Naim has to do is to subscribe to the “less is more” concept. Which is what attracted me to the simplicity Nait 2 decades ago.
I sense an internal struggle over at Naim land. But just ask yourself, how many Uni’s and HDXs have you sold? How many DS’s have Linn sold in the past few years?
quote:And throughout all these years I have waited for Naim to come up with that simple streamer that delivers Naim sound
What are you looking for though -
True streaming - music files on a NAS with a server and multiple clients or just a hard disk playback solution which should offer better than CD playback quality if done right ?
From a streaming option all the Naim music servers (unitiserve / NS series / HDX) will stream to other client. Naim could easily provide a Naimnet DAC. They have all the digilinx enabled kit from the Naimnet side of things so i can't see why you couldn't have a Naimnet enabled DAC. Get rid of all the iPod / USB rubbish, add a Digilink ethernet board and have control via a tablet / iPhone.
I think Naim are rapidly catching up with Linn on the computer audio side of things. The Naim Dac has allowed Naim to reach an audience who probably couldn't see past a Naim CD player as the ultimate source.
I'll bide my time and wait for the reference DAC - exciting times
James
Burn the witch....quote:Originally posted by Occean:
Other brands are available.
quote:Originally posted by Occean:
Other brands are available.
Very true, very true, and it's an exciting time at the moment.
I think Naim have a bit of catching up to do, but that's always been the case - the CDS was not the first CD player on the planet, but they applied some new thinking, and the rest is history. Maybe 'catching up' is the wrong phrase.
There seem to be several different ways to do the distributed audio thing, and the LinnDS philosophy is currently different to the way Naim do things. I think Linn have some advantages in their software openness, but that can also be a stick to beat them with, and the standalone/closed capability of the HDX et al. has its attractions.
Of course, it would be nice to have a roadmap, to see where they are going with this. Some, like me, have invested in a DAC, with good results, but so far, all we can do is speculate about a forthcoming reference DAC, based on the size of the case, lack of brass suspension, etc. Maybe this is where the dissatisfaction stems from, but I'm confident that Naim will not take their eye off the ball, namely sound quality.
But as you say, there's an increasing amount of kit out there, and the cost of entry to that market is falling all the time. Specialists like Naim and Linn have to find some value-added from more than just their reputation. Some of the low-end pro-audio stuff on the market is phenomenally good, but it doesn't have green logos
Cheers
John
quote:Originally posted by Nero:quote:Originally posted by Occean:
Other brands are available.
Very true, very true, and it's an exciting time at the moment.
I think Naim have a bit of catching up to do, but that's always been the case - the CDS was not the first CD player on the planet, but they applied some new thinking, and the rest is history. Maybe 'catching up' is the wrong phrase.
There seem to be several different ways to do the distributed audio thing, and the LinnDS philosophy is currently different to the way Naim do things. I think Linn have some advantages in their software openness, but that can also be a stick to beat them with, and the standalone/closed capability of the HDX et al. has its attractions.
Of course, it would be nice to have a roadmap, to see where they are going with this. Some, like me, have invested in a DAC, with good results, but so far, all we can do is speculate about a forthcoming reference DAC, based on the size of the case, lack of brass suspension, etc. Maybe this is where the dissatisfaction stems from, but I'm confident that Naim will not take their eye off the ball, namely sound quality.
But as you say, there's an increasing amount of kit out there, and the cost of entry to that market is falling all the time. Specialists like Naim and Linn have to find some value-added from more than just their reputation. Some of the low-end pro-audio stuff on the market is phenomenally good, but it doesn't have green logos
Cheers
John
John,
very nicely balanced view, shows that you are well aware of what's going on.
I also realize that Naim is trying to catch up very fast, albeit arguably running in the wrong direction with its all-in-one streamers.
Meridian/Soloos is going after the Rich crowd who knows nothing about computer based audio. The type of people who buy big McIntosh gears.
Linn, with Ivor Tiefenbrun's son leading the DS initiative, is going after the younger crowd and has all the price sectors covered.
Logitech had the Transporter which is the best kept secret in audio. But it looks like with Sean Adams gone, the transporter will be the last we will ever see a development of an audiophile streamer from them
What's left are the Async USB/Firewire DACs which are gaining a lot in popularity. The likes of Weiss/Wavelength/Ayre/dCS which with Macbook Pro and iPhone works like a dream.
Meanwhile Naim has come up with the Naim DAC sans async USB link, and its excuse is that there are USB-SPDIF adapter out there. I have bought a M2Tech Hiface for that very purpose. Since SPDIF is known to be evil and all that, I have a sinking feeling that all is not well. But I did a comparison a few days ago and find that I actually preferred the HiFace to the USB memory stick. Which makes me happy that I did not pay US$1000 more for the Weiss INT202 adapter.
Had Naim come up with an all black lean mean fighter streamer I would have mated that with the the Naim DAC and lived happily ever after. But right now I am pretty happy with the Macbook Pro+Naim DAC.
Sorry for all the mumbling. I actually shouldn't be moaning since I am reasonably taken care of. Meanwhile many natives are waiting for rain.
Ndac and 555 are close in performance. Which is preferred is dependant on whom you ask. Naim doesn't have an internal struggle. They chose the solutions they deemed best. You may not agree but what else is new in audio. They were aware that rips mattered and the vast majority weren't doing it right. Debatable but it's their and my view as your post is your's. Some that were already ripping and streaming feel as you do but others welcomed the conveience and performance. This was a new niche for the great majoity of their clients. You can't please everybody without making a lot of different products. They'll get there but without a rush to market(share). We don't do a lot of high end distributed audio either but find the HDX very worthwhile for most and it can also be used as server for more moderate streamers like Sonos or SB.
Some that were already ripping and streaming feel as you do but others welcomed the conveience and performance. This was a new niche for the great majoity of their clients. You can't please everybody without making a lot of different products. They'll get there but without a rush to market(share). We don't do a lot of high end distributed audio either but find the HDX very worthwhile for most and it can also be used as server for more moderate streamers like Sonos or SB.