Naim’s frustrating distributed audio strategy

Posted by: JYOW on 17 May 2010

Naim’s frustrating distributed audio strategy

I don’t think I am alone in all this. My following BS’ing will probably make me an enemy of the state so be it.

I can call myself amongst other things a pioneer in distributed audio. Like a couple of folks here in the Naim forum I have enjoyed Slim Devices since they had the Squeezebox 2 and went on to experiment with different DACs and eventually upgraded to their more audiophile Transporter.

To get better sound lately I also bought into the iTunes concept and bought a Macbook pro to connect to a Weiss DAC2. And with Naim’s introduction of nDAC I jumped ship and switched to that to connect to my Macbook with M2tech Hiface.

And throughout all these years I have waited for Naim to come up with that simple streamer that delivers Naim sound. And repeatedly all I saw was near misses - Products that seem to be almost there but missed the mark completely.

It all started with the HDX…..
A very promising device that unfortunately also included all the costly unnecessary noise making hardware built in, which include a CD transport, 2 X hard drives, a touch screen that no one ever touches, and an espresso maker . But worst of all, this means that Naim has to develop costly rocket science to isolate all those noise makers that do not need to be there in the first place. So we have a worst case scenario here, customers have to pay for all the unnecessary peripherals AND the expensive measures to reduce the impacts caused by the noise made by these peripherals. The worst part is, it will only approach the performance of the same device with all those peripherals stripped off.

It is like a formula one car that has its brake full on all the time and a super engine to compensate for that friction.

The most ironic thing is since we associate price with performance, so everyone starts to associate the HDX to the similarly priced CDX2 , the CDS3 or even a CD555. Which makes me think, if Naim removes all the peripherals and stick the same DAC as the CD555 wouldn’t it sound way better than the CD555?

--

I guess Naim is struggling internally. On the one hand it wants to get into distributed audio. On the other hand, a high end client with no CD inside would kill the myth of the high end CD transport, which similarly is a solution that no longer needs that problem (of real time CD reading.) I speculate that a chunk of the parts cost and R&D that go into the CD555 is on the “quiet room” to deafen the CD transport. Well with distributed audio all that is not needed.

But from reading through past discussion I don’t think Naim has a problem with having both HIGH END products co-existing. There will always be people who only treasure the touchee feelee of a silver disc and a sexy transport. Those same people will not touch distributed audio with a 10 feet pole due to their own attachment with the physical world OR the fact that they are not comfortable with tinkering with computers. I cannot, for example, ever picture my father being able to get into distributed audio. So for these people the privilege of owning a CD555 is still very much valid.

But for the rest of us, please could Naim not worry about jumping into the purist high end distributed client with both feet.

It is very simple, just do what Linn does and do it better. Design a HDX like machine with killer server and playback software, killer Naim power section and killer digital and DAC section. In fact, it could be as simple as asking the Naim DAC to grow an Ethernet port. And all that talk about S/PDIF RF noise and transport jitter is academic.

When can we have a higher end Unity, UnitCute and a Unitserve without all the freebees? Is distributed audio only for the all-in-one UNI folks?

It really is ironic, all Naim has to do is to subscribe to the “less is more” concept. Which is what attracted me to the simplicity Nait 2 decades ago.

I sense an internal struggle over at Naim land. But just ask yourself, how many Uni’s and HDXs have you sold? How many DS’s have Linn sold in the past few years?
Posted on: 20 May 2010 by Manu
quote:
Originally posted by AllenB:
And that is effectively your new HDX SSD but without the internal DAC & analogue stages. That to me would be the perfect solution to partnering with the nDAC and so on, and keeps control of the ripping and storage to a NAS. I would buy one in a heartbeat.
Allen


This is called a UnitiServe SSD, available soon.
Posted on: 20 May 2010 by james n
quote:
This is called a UnitiServe SSD, available soon.


Yes - but the issue seems to be whether the HDX digital out is better than the Unitserve digital out. If its not then wonderful Smile
Posted on: 20 May 2010 by Paul Stephenson
Beat me to it Manu,this last phase of releases was not possible until 1.5 was signed off which included rip to nas, i control and our UPnP s/ware and many other issues of course.
Posted on: 20 May 2010 by SC
quote:
Originally posted by Manu:
quote:
Originally posted by AllenB:
And that is effectively your new HDX SSD but without the internal DAC & analogue stages. That to me would be the perfect solution to partnering with the nDAC and so on, and keeps control of the ripping and storage to a NAS. I would buy one in a heartbeat.
Allen


This is called a UnitiServe SSD, available soon.

Hmmmm....But is this that machine..? That's the question. Like Allen, I would purchase his described machine also in a heartbeat, I'm just not convinced the Serve is said machine....

Same PCI card with SAME performance ?

Slot drive mechanism - a first for Naim - SAME ripping results..?

Why no screen ? (A minor point for some, I acknowledge)

Why designated Uniti ?

Why 1/2 case ?


I've just been re-reading the Gary Crocker interview re HDX in the Connection newsletter. As Gary says:

"It’s more difficult in something like the HDX however, firstly because there’s so little free space inside the case and secondly because the environment within the case is, in electronic and RF terms, pretty noisy."

Whilst I'm tempted to wonder 'why' try to cram all this into one box if it is by admission tight on space, I do appreciate it was worth striving for to create a high quality 'one box solution'....However, a far stronger wonder in me is if given the opportunity to create the Serve - and in doing so drop the DAC, analogue stage etc - why not keep the full size case and spread out the internals....??

Steve.
Posted on: 20 May 2010 by Occean
Is this really turned into a top about design?

The serve appears to be the streamer, with no dac that everyine has been begging for, abeit with ripping facilities.

If it were a refrence design, other than looks what advantage would there be for a digital out product? Very little I feel, if you need more get a NS01 or HDX

I really like the way Naim have tackled the harddisk audio market. You can go all Naim with fab results or plug what you like into the DAC again for fab results or have a play with the Uniti/qute which will really appeal to new hifi users, probably with a large mp3 collection already. I totally makes sense why they didn't make another DS/Sonos/Slim that market is covered.
Posted on: 20 May 2010 by Naijeru
quote:

Call it splitting hairs, but in addition to what Steve has picked up on, that machine is part of the Uniti range with epoxy coated half box cases and squarely a Uniti range machine. It is not a reference range product, which the HDX is, with the reference case and anodised aluminium fronts. To me the Serve may only be a 'stepping stone', but I would still like an answer to why there could not have been a HDX (proper) machine without the analogue and internal DAC. Red Face

Oy vey! Not another box argument! Roll Eyes
Posted on: 20 May 2010 by Huwge
quote:
Originally posted by AllenB:

Will the UnitiServe produce the same rip and dig out SQ as the latest HDX SSD?



At the High End in Munich, the Naim distributor said that the Unitiserve had the same rip as the HDX, but did not comment on the dig out in my hearing
Posted on: 21 May 2010 by Manu
You know, most comments on SQ come from dealers and users. The Serve has not yet hit them, so it will take some time for you to have an answer.
Posted on: 21 May 2010 by rich46
all this is the emporians new suit
Posted on: 22 May 2010 by Naijeru
quote:
Originally posted by AllenB:
Will the UnitiServe produce the same rip and dig out SQ as the latest HDX SSD?

This is an excellent question and one I plan to answer with a demo. As for aesthetics, I like the look of the Serve, just as I like how the DAC matches my 5i. Winker
Posted on: 24 May 2010 by Plinko
quote:
Originally posted by JYOW:
When I look at the Unity, the UniCute or the UnityServe, all three comes with hard disks or CD drive or integrated amp or all of the above.


The Unitiserve-SSD does not have a hard drive although it does have a cd drive. I suppose Naim thinks they can rip a cd better than anyone else. One problem I see is that Naim does not communicate the motives for why they do things the way they do. We're all left guessing. That creates doubt and in my case, paralysis by analysis.
Posted on: 24 May 2010 by rich46
guess they have changed the loading unit is down to cost, lots of manufactures have gone that way before them. guess it will be a sub contracted affair.

once your cd collection is ripped the transport will have very little use.

ive two slot loaders and i would rather use them,
Posted on: 24 May 2010 by Plinko
Not necessarily. I'm sure I will always be ripping because I acquire physical CDs whose mastering provenance is known.
Posted on: 24 May 2010 by Rosewind
I agree with Plinko: as long as you cannot buy all records/CDs as FLAC / WAV downloads, you will have to buy CDs to rip.

Peter
Posted on: 24 May 2010 by rich46
all hi res for the mass market must be years away , finally completed ripping 2800 cds , i put into storage about half, the convience of making playlists and the instant access of my music is the main reason the storage/ripping . still prefer the orbe anyway . the cds i listen to alot go in the cd player
Posted on: 25 May 2010 by Paul Stephenson
Plinko
http://www.naimaudio.com/userf...d_ripping_engine.pdf

You must have missed this, hope it helps.

Rich- Not sure what you mean about sub contract affair- unitiserve is built at naim,the mech is not like all of our cd products. The slot loader instead of a tray was chosen for several reasons,in this case space was a major driver but we have still chosen a mech which meets our needs.
Posted on: 25 May 2010 by Plinko
Thank you, Paul! I'm going to talk to some dealers here in the states about trading in my CDS3 for a Unitiserve/DAC combo.
Posted on: 27 May 2010 by T38.45
Looks like even Marantz will announce a pure streamer NA7004,,,

Ralf