Lockerbie bomber released

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I think we failed the relatives of the dead yesterday by releasing him and perhaps for the first time in my life I'm a bit ashamed of my country this morning.

Strange Ian as for the very same reason I feel really proud of our wee corner of the world.
Let's be honest, the guilty verdict against Al Magrahi was never a done deal. As mentioned in other posts it would appear that many (pertinent) fact did not see the light of day. e.g. who burst the padlock on pan am baggage container at Heathrow and why was this never investigated after the decision to say the bomb was planted in Frankfurt (am I mistaken or was this after previously stating the bomb planted in Greece?)
Is it right that the testemony of two known liars was used to convict Magrahi and even then only after one of them had been given a picture of the man by the CIA, just to make sure the i.d went smoothly.

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Is the outcome a fudge - the prisoner unlikely to see the end of an appeal, evidence that may embarrass UK and US Governments, he backs down in return for release on compassionate grounds?

OW, I feel you may have hit the nail on the head. But in that respect I have to say I admire the skill with which Kenny MacAskill carried out the release. Both the British and U.S. government used undue pressure to keep Al Magrahi inside. The U.K. government did this in a particularly cowardly way by entering into a prisoner exchange programme with Lybia knowing full well that Scotland only had ONE Lybian prisoner and that this decission would come down to a Scottish minister to make and so leaving Milliband (Home Sec) to do the Pilot act of washing his hands.The U.S. applied pressure through Senators and Hillary(+ Bill) to stop the release. But let's stop a minute and say, Senators, in Scotland due process was served and under the terms of Scot's Law compassion is also given a place. Before you accuse us - Guantanamo -due process?
In the end he is going home to die. The celebrations at the airport, yesterdays news. Interestingly I did spot a number of Saltires being waved- it's better than them being burnt.

Howlinhounddog

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Strange Ian as for the very same reason I feel really proud of our wee corner of the world.

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I think it was a very brave decision by MacAskill, one that put his career on the line in many ways - a very brave thing to do for a politician.

Jim

I guess I'm somat of a liberal bleeding heart...but I am very uncomfortable about this.

For me mass murderers require life imprisonment regardless of the state of their health of age. Whilst this may have been a relief for his family, it has opened wounds for many, many folk whose loved ones were murdered by this man.

That can't be right can it?

I understand the need for reconciliation as part of a wider process (such as the release of catholic and protestant inmates in NI)...but this is a token measure to prevent further loss of life.

IMO - the scenes we saw at the airport, have glorified violence against the west...and I wonder if watching that, some mislead young kid somewhere is seeing a future of glorified violence?

Maybe I am too cynical but I suspect that he was released less for compassionate reasons than the possibilty of the the British and American governments being embarrassed by the appeal process. As several have already have pointed out was he really guilty? There never was a very strong case and no real reason for Libya to have committed this atrocity. On the other hand Iran did have a motive: revenge for the Americans shooting down a passenger jet in the Gulf with over 330 deaths.
If anyone is interested in this Private Eye has had the most thorough coverage I have seen. It certainly makes me believe that Ali al-Megrahi is probably not guilty of the Lockerbie bombing.

Compassion yes, but don't let's be blind to the background political agenda.

With the PM (Peter Mandelson that is) aboard a yacht in Corfu with Gaddafi's son and having a 'fleeting' discussion pre-release.......Did I hear oil and gas reserves/contracts being mentioned?

Arch cynic.

I'll side with the compassionates in agreeing with his release for that reason. Predictably The US Fox News viewer poll yesterday was 96% against, 1% undecided and 3% in agreement out of 38000 votes polled.

I fail to understand what would be achieved by leaving this man to die in prison. In my view the scottish parliament has done the right thing in the circumstances and reflects well on them as compassionate christian folk.

Much as I regret the celebratory nature of his return to Libya it would be very naive to think this wouldn't happen.

I think you're right to be a bit cynical Graeme but perhaps it was Mr Mandelson, knowing release was pretty well inevitable, was taking advantage of the situation by implying the government had a hand in it?

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The US Fox News viewer poll yesterday was 96% against, 1% undecided and 3% in agreement out of 38000 votes polled

Surely it was 106% in against!

I was with this until Fox News was mentioned...I'm not sure they've ever reported a 'fact'. The Daily Mirror of US TV.

In principle, I like the idea of a release on compassionate grounds, but if he was capable of walking on and off the plane, they should have waited a little longer.

I bet the Scotish minister was impressed, after being told how he was not upholding International Law, by the Americans. Camp ??

Often forgotten in this whole sorry affair was the background reason for the attack on Pan Am 103:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
The Captain of the ship was later promoted for his actions and the crew awarded combat medals!
Perhaps the Director of the FBI would be better investigating U.S. atrocities both international and domestic than criticizing Scottish ministers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8216107.stm

Since all prisoners are going to die eventually, why not release them all 'compassionately' now?

There are plenty of atrocities to go around on all sides of this. A bold move to let him out, certainly. But the move is not likely to do more than confuse and inflame.

David

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Since all prisoners are going to die eventually, why not release them all 'compassionately' now?

Because not all will die in custody.
Had Magrahi been sentenced in America he would have been executed by now. The balance of probability is that he is not guilty. Are you suggesting that his execution would have been OK because, well , someone was guilty!
This is Scots Law, please respect it.
The Justice Secretary made the point quite succinctly-

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But that alone is not a reason for us to deny compassion to him and his family in his final days."

Mr MacAskill continued: "Our justice system demands that judgement be imposed, but compassion be available.

Until a full public enquiry is conducted with ALL the evidence exposed then you are correct this is likely to confuse. My instincts tell me that this is unlikely to happen as it would probably expose both our governments as being more than a little economic with the truth surrounding the evidence availible to convict Magrahi.
As to your assertion that this decission will inflame. Isn't mercy a virtue regarded highly by all peoples ?
Magrahi said

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My time here has been very unhappy and I do not leave a piece of myself. But to the country's people I offer my gratitude and best wishes.

I noticed today that The US Attorney General, Eric Holder, is reported to be considering whether to appoint a prosecutor to investigate abuse by CIA officers of ALLEGED terrorism suspects. Now that may cofuse and inflame!
regards
Charlie.

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Had Magrahi been sentenced in America he would have been executed by now. The balance of probability is that he is not guilty. Are you suggesting that his execution would have been OK because, well , someone was guilty!
This is Scots Law, please respect it.

Not suggesting that at all.
No disrespect intended, just wondering if all prisoners are given such compassion as a matter of law. Or is it only some as a matter of politics?
Many throughout history and (likely) in all corners of the world have served sentances (and faced execution or worse) for crimes they didn't commit. This horror is a shame on all of us.
Absent full access to the actual facts, I can't make any judgement on his guilt or otherwise, but have to trust and respect Scots Law to have done the right thing in the conviction.
David

Still, it's nice to see a disagreement between the British and American governments. Can't have happened for over a decade.
Don, overcast downtown York.

I just cannot see why the guy deserves our compassion.
For arguments sake let's say the guy spent eight years in jail for the murder of 270 innocent passengers on that Pan-Am flight.
8 yrs = 2920 days.
2920 days divided by 270 passengers = 10.814 recurring.
So the guy has served around 11 days for each of the lives he ended, without compassion, not to mention the devastation heaped on the bereaved families.
Still feel compassionate?
Regards,
Steve.

....Ok it's not a popular view Bruce but you are right ....we have to be better than those who choose to murder innocents (however difficult that is) ....and the reality is it does make a further terrorist attack a bit less likely.

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and the reality is it does make a further terrorist attack a bit less likely

How?
Against whom?
Indeed, "we" (the West, I suppose) have to lead the way with compassion. But this can't really be considered a defensive move against terrorism, can it? It is high-minded and intended for the greater good, but not effective defense.
David

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No disrespect intended, just wondering if all prisoners are given such compassion as a matter of law. Or is it only some as a matter of politics?

David, Kenny MacAskill was asked almost this very point at the reconvened parliamentary questions. The answer given was that since 2000 no Scottish justice secretary has refused release on compassionate grounds ( providing the requirements met i.e. verifiable proof that death is likely to occur within 3 months).
There have been 30 prisoners released in the last nine years.
Charlie.

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Originally posted by scottyhammer:
leave ALL terrorists to rot in hell - NO exceptions.

I agree, but would add those who commit evil acts under the banner of a nation state the same ...

The celebrations on his return to Libya were sickening.

It seems this guy was a secret police operative in Libya and committed this crime under the orders of the Libyan regime.

He was handed over as part of a deal to create better relations between Gadafi and the west. Then our noses get rubbed in it when the Scottish government shows compassion - that ain't right ...

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There have been 30 prisoners released in the last nine years.

Thanks for the insight, Charlie. Glad to hear there is due process around this within your system.
We don't have much access to that kind of information here.
David

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Then our noses get rubbed in it when the Scottish government shows compassion - that ain't right ...

But isn't it always right to show compassion?

It was not such along time ago that several high profile US people (and a lot of ordinary people) were supporting and helping to fund a group that was bombing UK citizens in the UK mainland.

So a little balance would be appreciated.

Re Compassion - I thought that was a cornerstone of the basic religion the a lot of Republicans allegedly subscribe to.