LP12 + Cirkus = Better or Worse?

Posted by: Alex S. on 06 May 2001

Is the Cirkus fit for LP12 an upgrade or a downgrade - somebody, who should know but who's name I'd better withhold, said it made the deck sound worse.

I was thinking of doing it (the Cirkus) soon but now I'm not so sure.

What are the views of the team?

Posted on: 06 May 2001 by Rico

It worked for me. This is a question that has challenged more debate in the past than mere Mana discussions - do search around in the archive, if you can get the patented Search Bicycle to work.
Critical factors would include: what is the current spec of your LP12, and what is the current state of it (from a purely logical POV), as well as what your system is, and where it's going (from a purely synergystic POV).

HTH.

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

Posted on: 06 May 2001 by kan man

This upgrade allows the deck to resolve much more detail and is especially noticable when things get complicated and everyone is playing very loudly at the same time. The net effect for me was that it widened the range of music that I was able to enjoy since things I previously didn't like began to make sense.

It does remove a bass hump and make the deck a little more 'CD like' in it's presentation which some people don't like but the majority of people think it is a major upgrade.

If you are worried about musicality (in the sense of foot tapping boogie factor) I would suggest ditching the Lingo and going back to Valhalla.

Cheers
Steve

Posted on: 06 May 2001 by Paul B

I don't believe that there is a consensus on the Cirkus. I have used both and can say that the Cirkus "upgrade" does change the sound of the LP12 quite a bit. Is it better - in some ways, yes, but it is not as warm and is perhaps "more CD-like" (although IMO the LP12 is superior to any CD player whether with Cirkus or not).

I'm not totally convinced that the Cirkus is necessary and this may depend upon the support used. I believe that those using Mana with the LP12 usually prefer the pre-Cirkus deck but there are, no doubt, exceptions. I do not have Mana and presently use a Cirkus LP12.

I am quite surprised at the suggestion of returning to the Valhalla and getting rid of the Lingo. The Valhalla is inferior in every way IMO to the Lingo. Certainly I would consider the Armageddon as an alternative to the Lingo but never the Valhalla. On the old forum, some rated even the Basik as superior to the Valhalla!!

Paul

Posted on: 06 May 2001 by Alex S.

Thanks I'll do a search.

In the meantime it seems that perhaps Mana + Cirkus = too much of a move in a certain "CD like" direction.

I was thinking of investing in Mana - but also know that this forum may be a bit mana-ed out talkwise.

I found the Lingo a huge upgrade when I demmed it on release. I then invested heavily in CD, returned to LP12, and recently bought Lingo which I now thought a good rather than spectacular improvement on Valhalla.

My LP12 needs a new motor which I'll fit first.
It presently sits on original Sound Org Table with a Base02 platform (good improvement).

I'm waiting now for verdict on Mana or Fraim and/or Cirkus.

Alex

Posted on: 07 May 2001 by Alex S.

Thanks for your reply.

I think your LP12 sits on Mana?

Do your comments relate to Cirkus + Mana or just Cirkus (or both scenarios).

Alex.

Posted on: 07 May 2001 by Alex S.

Thanks Mr P.

Not if I get there first pd!

Posted on: 30 June 2001 by ken c

The transformation is utterly gobsmacking, and words really fail me. I never thought the Lingo a bad supply - it certainly improved hugely on its predecessors - but the Armageddon just transforms the sound in the way that Naim gear always does.

my experience almost exactly. IIRC, i did the geddon at the same time as prefix. i was annoyed i hadnt done this earlier. even more annoyed that my dealer at the time had tried to talk me out of this.

Difficult to describe, but you will all know what I mean.

i know what you mean...

my lp12 is cirkussed. when i did it -- it was considered a no-brainer; and i had a lingo which i ditched when i got the geddon.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 30 June 2001 by Don Atkinson

ken c

You were clearly impressed with the Armageddon.

I rang RAY (who sets up LP12s at your previous dealer). His views were;

In an all Naim system, Aro (plus Dynavector xx2- Ray's choice not mine), Naim pre amp, Naim power amp and Naim speakers, the Prefix and Armaggedon are a valid choice, so is the Linto and Lingo.I couldn't get a clear view on which choice would be 'best'-try defining best.

In a system without Naim speakers and with an Ekos and Linn cartridge, the Prefix and Armageddon are not valid choices only the Linto and Lingo are suitable. No need to define 'best' there is only one choice !!

Yes, I know, this dealer's views are pretty positive !! (but usually right)

It seems like an all-or-nothing change, if I want an Armageddon, I have to change my speakers, arm, cartridge, and head amp - all in one hit !!

Cheers

Don

Posted on: 30 June 2001 by ken c

"I rang RAY (who sets up LP12s at your previous dealer). "

yeah, ray horn is a good guy -- one of a few handful of experts with lp12's. the very few occasions that i had a chance to seek his opinions/views - they were honestly given.

i think his analysis of suitability of p/s for naimed or non-naimed lp12's corresponds with my experience.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 30 June 2001 by jpk73

Who compared naimed LP12s with and without Cirkus?

Jun

Posted on: 01 July 2001 by Top Cat

...if there aren't any insurance hiccups, my new turntable will be LP12/Cirkus/Aro/Armageddon/?? - or something else. But, if I go down the LP12 route again, I think I'll get a 'geddon...

John

Posted on: 02 July 2001 by Frank Abela

The Cirkus makes the LP12 listenable. I hated the pre-Cirkus LP12 (which is why I didn't buy one).

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Posted on: 02 July 2001 by ken c

paul cocks, my geddon does have an on/off switch. perhaps i have misunderstood something??

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 02 July 2001 by ken c

paul c: oh, i see what you mean now. i always switch my geddon off after a session. i seem to recall that even when the geddon switch is off, the circuits inside are still energized, so these should be in their quiescent state always provided the geddon is plugged in. of course, i could be wrong here -- and will be very pleased to be corrected. i am never aware of a long warmup session when i play records -- perhaps its early days yet and i am making allowances for my new xx2?

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 02 July 2001 by Chris Dolan

Paul

What support are you using for your Linn?

Chris

Posted on: 02 July 2001 by Chris Dolan

Paul

Thanks for the info. I wanted to know whether or not you were using Mana.

It helps me to put opinions into perspective.

Chris