Naim DAC / Lavry / Amarra / HiFace

Thx for the hard work Richard.

M

Naim DAC - Optical TOS (straight from Mac) v.s. HiFace.

Was this easy!! Clear winner HiFace! Note I've not spent much time on this (work to do) as the impressions were obvious and immediate.

Quite simply - much of the qualities of the Naim DAC over the Lavry / CDSII were lost using optical input.

Conclusion (IMO):

If you want a fair comparison of what a computer front end can do with the Naim DAC relative to, say a CD play, you need to connect via something other than optical.

From my brief experimentation, and previous post by James and DHT (re Lavry v.s. Weiss performance), one might conclude that Optical connections are a real limiter and should not be used if one really wants to understand what a source or DAC are capable of.

Cheers

Richard

M -

Not really hard work

Now need to box it up and send it home - as its proving very distracting - and I'vc monopolised the front room for 2 days

R,

The listening isn't - the write ups are!

I agree that the HiFace is am amazing bit of kit, for a give away price - in HiFi terms.

I'm looking forward to my Benchmark vs Naim shootout!

M

great write up richard.

thank you for sheering with us ...

i absolutely share the results under 3 regarding the cds2 with the lavry / mac..i sold my cds2 after comparing those 2.

do you could live with the naim dac as a one box ( no xps ) solution or is the tempt to big after you herd it attached ? well for me fex. the cdx/ cdx2 never couldn´t without the xps, while the lavry did it for me without problems.i will need to decide , if i buy another lavry ( i sold my when naim anounced teh naim dac ) or the naim dac for 2,5 price of the lavry.

So - IMO - the Naim DAC stands on its own feet without the need for external power supplies.

I'd be quite happy with it - as standalone - as a replacement for my Lavry.

Just feed it a good signal!

Cheers

Richard

Nice write up Richard

Cheers

James

Hi Richard,

Out of interest do you have some thoughts on the order of improvement going from the Lavry to the DAC? Obviously the DACs over twice the price so wondering about the VFM equation

Thanks

I suspect that optical from a better interface may get closer but your results are right in line with my observations going back quite a few years with a variety of DACs. Nice to hear it from a non industry poster. So I'm assuming that the Lavry in Narrow and Hiface was also it's best configuration and that the difference was even greater with the Naim given that same source. Thanks.
Oh, and which coax cable are you using for SPdif?

quote:

Originally posted by js:
I suspect that optical from a better interface may get closer but your results are right in line with my observations going back quite a few years with a variety of DACs. Nice to hear it from a non industry poster. So I'm assuming that the Lavry in Narrow and Hiface was also it's best configuration and that the difference was even greater with the Naim given that same source. Thanks.
Oh, and which coax cable are you using for SPdif?

upto having the naim dac i didnt rate optical.

i use a merlin 75 ohm cable and impressed with it,alittle stiff fun to dress/fit

second system is sonos via optical. preferred this to cable. may be the isolation from the network is an advantage. my dab radio via optical is god too. still miles behind my audiolab 8000 tuner . my 1976 pioneer 9500 tuner still sounds great too.

so i guess ive change my mind about optical ,use a tpi optical £30 . buy the dac it is top dog

In defence of the Lavry it does seem a little strange that it came unnoticeably close to the CD555, and yet obviously bettered by the Naim DAC by quite a margin from recent impressions. Not a bad thing, but does the Naim DAC put the CD555 in the shade or is there some clever DSP going on? Sadly, there is no digital-out on the DAC to test this hypothesis.

Wazza69 - Value for money is somewhat relative. To my mind the price is justified by performance and build quality and the effect on the rest of my system. But that's just my view. There is a strong chance I'll purchase one in due course - but may check out the firewire alternative before making a final decision.

JS - Yes Lavry was used in narrow with hiface, Naim DAC was used with hiface. Cable used was the cheapest Chord (Codac). I was interested in relative performance, not absolute. Probably need to invest in a better cable in due course.

rich46 - re Optical: I don't think Naim DAC did any better job than the Lavry w.r.t. TOS from the MAC Mini. Both seemed to be limited by this connection to the same degree (cable van den Hul glass). The Naim pulled ahead with the Coax / HiFace.

PMR - Lavry is excellent for the money - and one really needs to hear it driven with Amarra & hiface to appreciate what it can do. That said, no doubt, the Naim DAC goes that extra mile (as it should for the extra cost).

Only have my observations w.r.t. CDSII, don't have a clue about relative performance placing w.r.t a 555.


Cheers

Richard

quote:

Originally posted by PMR:
In defence of the Lavry it does seem a little strange that it came unnoticeably close to the CD555, and yet obviously bettered by the Naim DAC by quite a margin from recent impressions. Not a bad thing, but does the Naim DAC put the CD555 in the shade or is there some clever DSP going on? Sadly, there is no digital-out on the DAC to test this hypothesis.

I think you'd probably put the Lavry below the Weiss or DAD yourself. I guess they must all be better than a 555. There's always room for preference but I suspect those reporting weren't in the 'my DAC is better than anything' group and many will still also prefer a 555 with standard def. against any DAC.

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
PMR - Lavry is excellent for the money - and one really needs to hear it driven with Amarra & hiface to appreciate what it can do. That said, no doubt, the Naim DAC goes that extra mile (as it should for the extra cost).

Only have my observations w.r.t. CDSII, don't have a clue about relative performance placing w.r.t a 555.


Cheers

Richard

Hi Richard, to be honest, I've never really bought into the Amarra, since it made little or no difference in my setup with either the Benchmark, Lavry or Weiss using a Mac Mini. Indeed, I always return to a low jitter CD or DVD Transport with no DSP in order to have a reference I can trust.

On that note, did you compare the Naim DAC to the Lavry (I assume DA10) using a transport?

PMR,

No I didn't. In hindsight I do have a Arcam DVD I might have used - but my focus was on my Mac/Mini front end. Also from previous experiments - IMO the Arcam / Lavry didn't approach the CDSII. Whereas my Mac / Lavry equals its.

re Amarra - possibly worth giving the latest version (1.2) a go. The previous release wasn't too hot (which is why I moved to a pre-release beta version) the new 1.2 release has addressed these sonic issues.

I'm now using the new 1.2 version - but I've change so many components over the last few days to comment on this.

James N can probably make some sensible comment w.r.t. this.

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
PMR,

No I didn't. In hindsight I do have a Arcam DVD I might have used - but my focus was on my Mac/Mini front end. Also from previous experiments - IMO the Arcam / Lavry didn't approach the CDSII. Whereas my Mac / Lavry equals its.

re Amarra - possibly worth giving the latest version (1.2) a go. The previous release wasn't too hot (which is why I moved to a pre-release beta version) the new 1.2 release has addressed these sonic issues.

I'm now using the new 1.2 version - but I've change so many components over the last few days to comment on this.

James N can probably make some sensible comment w.r.t. this.

I'm still using the orginal version 1.0.1 which started the whole Amarra sounds better reports.

As mentioned to Keith in the 'Dac brief encounter' I just finished comparing MAC Mini USB using the Wireworld Ultraviolet USB, SB Duet using Supernova 5+ optical and Van den Hul-First Ultimate coaxial and Denon 3900 DVD Transport using the Zaolla Silver Line coaxial via a Benchmark Media DAC1 Pre on a very near perfect sink. Through Grado RS1 and Active ATC there were no noticeable differences, whether A/B switching or through careful listening. Amarra made no different playing AIFF format–Blue Button.

Lavry and Weiss are dependent upon the interface from my previous comparisons, with USB and SPDIF optical falling behind SPDIF coaxial and Firewire.

PMR the DAD is one that I am potentially interested in, when I wrote to the manufacturer they recommended connecting it via a Weiss afII ( firewire interface 8 channel ) have you tried it through firewire, for me fire wire is the best connection method, friends and I have experimented with quite a few dacs using my Weiss dacII purely as firewire interface.

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
PMR the DAD is one that I am potentially interested in, when I wrote to the manufacturer they recommended connecting it via a Weiss afII ( firewire interface 8 channel ) have you tried it through firewire, for me fire wire is the best connection method, friends and I have experimented with quite a few dacs using my Weiss dacII purely as firewire interface.

Funny you should say that, I've been hoping to try the Weiss DAC2 as a Firewire interface to the AES/EBU input on the AX24. Sadly, the AX24 arrived just before Christmas at the same time my MAC Mini went into wireless melt down. After 2 weeks in repair @ 200 quid, and now two hours of support from Apple yesterday, it doesn't let my iTouch/iPhone pair with iTunes. Not a happy bunny. It's going back again! However, I'll look to give it a try later today. As for the AX24, it's superb!

PMR do you still have your Weiss, whereabouts are you it would be interesting to hear a Weiss /DAD comparison and hear the dAD through firewire.

Pete,

When I was round at your place, I preferred the Pure Vinyl output with your DAD rather than bare iTunes from the MacBook.

Has anyone compared the Weiss/Firewire with the Naim DAC perhaps with HiFace?

I must try the latest Amarra. James seems to think the issues with that previous release have been sorted and they have enabled gapless playback where required.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
PMR do you still have your Weiss, whereabouts are you it would be interesting to hear a Weiss /DAD comparison and hear the dAD through firewire.

Tunbridge Wells. You are more than welcome anytime.

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:
Pete,

When I was round at your place, I preferred the Pure Vinyl output with your DAD rather than bare iTunes from the MacBook.

Has anyone compared the Weiss/Firewire with the Naim DAC perhaps with HiFace?

I must try the latest Amarra. James seems to think the issues with that previous release have been sorted and they have enabled gapless playback where required.

Joe

Hi Joe, btw, did you find the book interesting or did you already have a copy?

The DAD using their Dual AES3-S/PDIF digital I/O module prefers 24/96 via optical, so I'm not sure whether the Pure Vinyl sounds any different to iTunes with Audio MIDI set to 24/96. However, using the MAC/Weiss DAC2 as Firewire to DAD AES/EBU brings some very interesting and very different audible results when using 24/96 which is native to the card.

Hi Pete,

Very interesting thanks.

The PV supports rates up to 24/192, so I can't see why it wouldn't improve on iTunes at 24/96.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:
Hi Pete,

Very interesting thanks.

The PV supports rates up to 24/192, so I can't see why it wouldn't improve on iTunes at 24/96.

Joe

Yes, it might well do. Everything makes sense with the Benchmark DAC1, but the other DAC’s benefit from a little bit of interface tweaking. The DAD is only at half throttle at the moment, I need to get into 24/386 using MADI or AES3.

Peter Hi, very kind of you to offer the invitation, the only thing that put me off the DAD a little was the connectivity, I didn't want to have to buy an AFII as well as the AX24.
There is now of course the new small Weiss firewire interface the INT202 which is cheaper and has a remote controlled volume!
That and either the new Naim dac or the ax24 might be interesting to compare with my Weiss DACII.