first D-SLR
Posted by: Phil Sparks on 12 April 2006
Got a few OM bodies (4, 4ti, couple of 1s) and a bag full of olympus primes that I still love for their quality, intuitiveness (sp??), small size etc. however I've found myself using the wife's small digi compact more often recently. I love the way you can try things out and see the result immediately, also it's great for grabbing lots of snaps of the kids then just seeing which ones works. However the shutter delay is infuriating, the lack of control bugs me and the quality is really pretty average.
Therefore I've been thinking of getting an entry level digi SLR. This won't really be a replacement for the OM stuff but will be good for kids parties, family days out etc, where I'd like to get better results than the P&S but would like the ability to shoot 100 shots and just keep the best 4 or 5 rather than burn £30 on 3 rolls of film and processing.
Handled the Eos 350 D and thought it felt cheap. The D50 and Oly E500 felt better. The E500 looks a good deal at £600 for a kit with 2 lenses but I get the sense that buying into the 4/3 system could be limiting in the future. The D50 gets great reviews and with the 18-70 lens is only £500 or so. One recommendation I had was to go for the 17-200VR lens which will cover all eventualities and is great optically too - can be had for c.£800 with the D50. I've never really used long lenses much (my Oly 200m has bee used a handful of times whereas the 21mm and 24mm get a much more regular outing) - however maybe I don't use often simply because I can't be bothered to carry round - and if it was always on the camera it would get used more often.
I'm not too price sensitive but I think spending more on the lens and less on the body is the right way to go at the moment.
Any thoughts?
Phil
Therefore I've been thinking of getting an entry level digi SLR. This won't really be a replacement for the OM stuff but will be good for kids parties, family days out etc, where I'd like to get better results than the P&S but would like the ability to shoot 100 shots and just keep the best 4 or 5 rather than burn £30 on 3 rolls of film and processing.
Handled the Eos 350 D and thought it felt cheap. The D50 and Oly E500 felt better. The E500 looks a good deal at £600 for a kit with 2 lenses but I get the sense that buying into the 4/3 system could be limiting in the future. The D50 gets great reviews and with the 18-70 lens is only £500 or so. One recommendation I had was to go for the 17-200VR lens which will cover all eventualities and is great optically too - can be had for c.£800 with the D50. I've never really used long lenses much (my Oly 200m has bee used a handful of times whereas the 21mm and 24mm get a much more regular outing) - however maybe I don't use often simply because I can't be bothered to carry round - and if it was always on the camera it would get used more often.
I'm not too price sensitive but I think spending more on the lens and less on the body is the right way to go at the moment.
Any thoughts?
Phil
Posted on: 12 April 2006 by Roy T
quote:Recently I have been hanging around with some real professional creative photographers and seen them do great things with little point-and-shoots (which they always carry) that I would never have thought of. It's the ideas that count, not the number of pixels.
These days I make an effort to just carry a P&S everywhere to experiment, and only take the SLR/MF bag-full when the shot has been pre-planned.
The D70 will be fine for you, but do you have a decent P&S in your pocket?
I think this extract from the learned doctor's post points to the value of a camera that you carry about with you all the and that sounds good advice to me.
quote:but I get the sense that buying into the 4/3 system could be limiting in the future.
With a few third party camera companies now making glass that will work with the new Olympus kit this I think gives the impression that the format and new kit may be about for some time to come, but you never know what might happen in the future do you. I have a feeling that the new format Olympus kit both camera and glass may be a bit smaller and lighter than the Tis and OMs of and this might be enough to tempt you carry them around and get them out of the bag a bit more often.
So do you invest in OM,NI or CA kit? Whatever you do may cost a few bob so have a gooid think first.
Posted on: 12 April 2006 by Derek Wright
Phil
The E1 can be obtained for a great price at DigitalDepot.
I have one with the 14 to 54mm and 50 to 200mm lens and other accessories and I am very pleased with the kit. If you can try one in your hands to see how it fits. You might be won over by the very good feel of the camera. Also look at the
4/3 Photo website
and also
DPReview Olympus SLR Talk Forum
I have had several pictures published around the world taken with the E1, some even in UK national papers. One was mentioned several times on the radio as it generated some interest.
As you have some existing Olympus lenses you could most likely use the adapter to fit them on the E1
The E1 can be obtained for a great price at DigitalDepot.
I have one with the 14 to 54mm and 50 to 200mm lens and other accessories and I am very pleased with the kit. If you can try one in your hands to see how it fits. You might be won over by the very good feel of the camera. Also look at the
4/3 Photo website
and also
DPReview Olympus SLR Talk Forum
I have had several pictures published around the world taken with the E1, some even in UK national papers. One was mentioned several times on the radio as it generated some interest.
As you have some existing Olympus lenses you could most likely use the adapter to fit them on the E1
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by Phil Sparks
Wow £400 for an E1 - weren't they charging £1500 for them a year or so ago. The only issue is that the £400 deal only comes with the 14-45 lens not the better 14-54 one. Can't find anyone selling the E1 + 14-54 for less than about £800
As this is not going to replace my OM stuff I still think that the best option is to get and entry level DSLR body, but to up the lens a little from the basic kit one. Hence why I'm thinking about say a D50 (only £350 or so for the body) and the slightly better 18-70 lens. the Oly equivalent would be to go for an E500 and the 14-54 lens if I could find it.
Phil
As this is not going to replace my OM stuff I still think that the best option is to get and entry level DSLR body, but to up the lens a little from the basic kit one. Hence why I'm thinking about say a D50 (only £350 or so for the body) and the slightly better 18-70 lens. the Oly equivalent would be to go for an E500 and the 14-54 lens if I could find it.
Phil
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by Jonathan Gorse
Phil,
I have just bought a Pentax Ist DS for £489.95 with 18-55mm kit lens at Jessops and absolutely love it. It has a Pentaprism rather than Pentamirror viewfinder which creates a far brighter and more accurate viewfinder than any of its budget SLR competitors eg the Nikon D50/D70, Eos 350 etc. It also has a more solid feel (Magnesium chassis) than the Canon and Nikon equivalents. I like the fact too that the Ist DS can take any Pentax lens ever made (although you will have to stop down the oldest manual ones that don't have manual coupling) but that's a whole world of cheap glass out there.
To be honest if you've an existing Zuiko collection and he latest Olympus digital SLR's can use them I'd buy Olympus, but if you're starting from scratch then don't overlook the Pentax.
Brg,
Jonathan
I have just bought a Pentax Ist DS for £489.95 with 18-55mm kit lens at Jessops and absolutely love it. It has a Pentaprism rather than Pentamirror viewfinder which creates a far brighter and more accurate viewfinder than any of its budget SLR competitors eg the Nikon D50/D70, Eos 350 etc. It also has a more solid feel (Magnesium chassis) than the Canon and Nikon equivalents. I like the fact too that the Ist DS can take any Pentax lens ever made (although you will have to stop down the oldest manual ones that don't have manual coupling) but that's a whole world of cheap glass out there.
To be honest if you've an existing Zuiko collection and he latest Olympus digital SLR's can use them I'd buy Olympus, but if you're starting from scratch then don't overlook the Pentax.
Brg,
Jonathan
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by NaimDropper
quote:To be honest if you've an existing Zuiko collection and he latest Olympus digital SLR's can use them I'd buy Olympus,
Perhaps I'm being a bit dense here, but I've read some of the Olympus info and it does not appear that the original Zuiko lenses will fit the new E-series cameras.
Is that right?
I, too, have a bag stuffed with Zuiko lenses, motor drives, OM2, OM10, OM4, OM2000, etc. Some of these I've owned since about 1977. They all sit unused in favor of the P&S Canons my wife and I use now.
I'd happily pay a premium if I could attach my beautiful Zuiko lenses to a digital camera body.
Phil, have you verified that the original Zuiko lenses will fit?
I know it is far more complicated than Olympus providing the proper bayonet mount...
Thanks!
David
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by NaimDropper
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by Phil Sparks
the MF adaptor will allow you to fit your OM lenses to an E1, E500, etc. but ... and it's quite a big but ...
- the autofocus doesn't work (obviously)
- the lens will only work in stop down mode, so as you move the apperture to say f8 the view through the vewfinder darkens. It needs to do this as the E series can't meter at full apperture then stop down to take the picture
- the focus distance on the lens isn't right so you have to confirm focus through the viewfinder
- for some technical reason the lenses don't work that well wide open so you need to stop down a couple of stops, so no shallow depth of field effects from my lovely 85mm f2.0
The Oly adaptor cost £100 but there are some pretend ones on ebay for £12.99 that are prob worth a try if you've got an E body and om lenses, but too much faff for most circumstances.
Phil
- the autofocus doesn't work (obviously)
- the lens will only work in stop down mode, so as you move the apperture to say f8 the view through the vewfinder darkens. It needs to do this as the E series can't meter at full apperture then stop down to take the picture
- the focus distance on the lens isn't right so you have to confirm focus through the viewfinder
- for some technical reason the lenses don't work that well wide open so you need to stop down a couple of stops, so no shallow depth of field effects from my lovely 85mm f2.0
The Oly adaptor cost £100 but there are some pretend ones on ebay for £12.99 that are prob worth a try if you've got an E body and om lenses, but too much faff for most circumstances.
Phil
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by Jonathan Gorse
Naimdropper,
I was under the impression you couldn't use new Zuiko lenses on their DSLR's but I haven't investigated he options. www.dpreview.com is usually a good source of information.
Apologies if I misled you, I really don't know - hence I said 'if you can use old Zuiko lenses'.
Brg,
jonathan
I was under the impression you couldn't use new Zuiko lenses on their DSLR's but I haven't investigated he options. www.dpreview.com is usually a good source of information.
Apologies if I misled you, I really don't know - hence I said 'if you can use old Zuiko lenses'.
Brg,
jonathan
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by Steve G
My main reservations about the Olympus system aren't related to lens compatability, but about the size of their 4/3 sensor as it's smaller than the APS-C ones that most other manufacturers are using. The Olympus one might well provide good quality (and the reviews indicate that it does), but it definitely has an affect on the availability and cost of wide angle lenses. In addition the system isn't being well supported by the 3rd party manufacturers.
The D50 is a good buy if you don't need DOF preview, but I've gone with a Pentax *istDS because I already had an investment in Pentax lenses and I like Pentax's support for older lenses.
The D50 is a good buy if you don't need DOF preview, but I've gone with a Pentax *istDS because I already had an investment in Pentax lenses and I like Pentax's support for older lenses.
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by Derek Wright
However if you have an OM lens outside the range of the digital lenses - eg a very long focus lens then the lens adapter could be very attractive. Or if you have a prime lens within the range of the standard lenses for the E range - then you might find the adapter useful.
However given the advantage of the designed and built for the E series lenses (eg size and automation as well as quality as well a weather proofing in some of the lenses) you might find that the benefit of the existing glass might not be so great.
Using an OM style lens on an a 4/3rds camera effectlively doubles its focal length, so a 150mm OM lens on an Ex has the same effect as a 300mm OM lens on an OM camera.
However given the advantage of the designed and built for the E series lenses (eg size and automation as well as quality as well a weather proofing in some of the lenses) you might find that the benefit of the existing glass might not be so great.
Using an OM style lens on an a 4/3rds camera effectlively doubles its focal length, so a 150mm OM lens on an Ex has the same effect as a 300mm OM lens on an OM camera.
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by Derek Wright
Wide angle lenses are a problem on digital cameras unless they have been designed to provide a perpendicular light path to hit the sensor as the light sensitive elements are situated at the end of small tubes. Olympus do a digital compatible wide angle zoom lens
7-14mm (14 to 28mm in 35mm speak) and an 8mm fish eye (16mm equivalent)
However they will probably require you to sell a kidney or two or get a mortgage.
See
Olympus Range of Lenses
7-14mm (14 to 28mm in 35mm speak) and an 8mm fish eye (16mm equivalent)
However they will probably require you to sell a kidney or two or get a mortgage.
See
Olympus Range of Lenses
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by Roy T
quote:so no shallow depth of field effects from my lovely 85mm f2.0
A rather fine lens for filling the frame with head and shoulder shots of happy punters against and an out of focus background.
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by NaimDropper
Thank you all, I'm heartened by this.
Will check them out, it is what I've been looking for.
I realize that my older lenses won't do any of the auto stuff nor will they be "proper" focal lengths (or, as I just found out, not meter correctly unless stopped down) but it seems worth it to me to have a close look.
Happy shooting!
David
Will check them out, it is what I've been looking for.
I realize that my older lenses won't do any of the auto stuff nor will they be "proper" focal lengths (or, as I just found out, not meter correctly unless stopped down) but it seems worth it to me to have a close look.
Happy shooting!
David
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by DIL
I have an E300 which I am very pleased with. A big plus in favour of Olympus is the ultrasonic sensor cleaning. Basicly, you don't have to worry about dust on the sensor and the problem of wet cleaning the sensor, or whatever non-oly folk need to do.
DoF preview (ie stopping the lens down) is available on the E300 at least, probably others.
The range of lenses available is pretty good, although the exotic stuff does cost. There is a general complaint about lack of shortish fast primes. Having said that, the general opinion expressed on the forum at dpreview.com is that zoom lenses these days are very very good so why bother. Olympus glas is supposed to be very good, and (generally) comparable to similarly proced offerings in other manufacturers lines.
I would not worry too much about using old Zuiko glass, unless you do a lot of portraiture or other applications where you need a fast lens.
Another point about using lagacy lenses on an Olympus E-body which I think has been missed is that the sensor area is smaller (half) than of 35mm film, so the field of view is only half. The F1.8 50mm standard Zuiko lens behaves as a 100mm lens.
/david
DoF preview (ie stopping the lens down) is available on the E300 at least, probably others.
The range of lenses available is pretty good, although the exotic stuff does cost. There is a general complaint about lack of shortish fast primes. Having said that, the general opinion expressed on the forum at dpreview.com is that zoom lenses these days are very very good so why bother. Olympus glas is supposed to be very good, and (generally) comparable to similarly proced offerings in other manufacturers lines.
I would not worry too much about using old Zuiko glass, unless you do a lot of portraiture or other applications where you need a fast lens.
Another point about using lagacy lenses on an Olympus E-body which I think has been missed is that the sensor area is smaller (half) than of 35mm film, so the field of view is only half. The F1.8 50mm standard Zuiko lens behaves as a 100mm lens.
/david
Posted on: 18 April 2006 by DIL
Raised the point of the benefits of the automatic ultrasonic sensor cleaning which olympus D-SLR's have.
Here's a thread from the dpreview fora for prosumer canon cameras about the problems of dust on sensors. Not pretty.
/dl
Here's a thread from the dpreview fora for prosumer canon cameras about the problems of dust on sensors. Not pretty.
/dl
Posted on: 19 April 2006 by Rico
what about a nikon D50 or D70, with the (VERY HIGHLY RATED) kit 18-55 DX lens, for starters.
I've an OM1, zuiko 24 2.8, zuiko 28 2.8, a couple of 50 1.8's, zuiko 70-150, shumar 135 2.8 (great bokeh)... and all largely forlorn since heading into digital with a point-and-shoot 5 years ago. Sure, better results with the OM1. Different kind of photography with the P&S digital.
My eyes aren't what they were, it's not as easy to use any more. I will miss the compact and excellent handling, the great system.
Instead, I'm going Nikon - to use some of the lenses I already have. AF makes more sense to me these days; matrix metering generally just works.
FWIW.
I've an OM1, zuiko 24 2.8, zuiko 28 2.8, a couple of 50 1.8's, zuiko 70-150, shumar 135 2.8 (great bokeh)... and all largely forlorn since heading into digital with a point-and-shoot 5 years ago. Sure, better results with the OM1. Different kind of photography with the P&S digital.
My eyes aren't what they were, it's not as easy to use any more. I will miss the compact and excellent handling, the great system.
Instead, I'm going Nikon - to use some of the lenses I already have. AF makes more sense to me these days; matrix metering generally just works.
FWIW.
Posted on: 24 April 2006 by Phil Sparks
well after much surfing I went with the D50 and the 18-70 lens, got the bundle delivered next day for £500. Having played around quite a bit over the w/end I'm really quite impressed. The results 'out of the box' are really good, the matrix metering works most of the time, the detail when shooting in RAW is impressive, the focussing is accurate and the whole thing feels well made and substantial.
Of course it doensn't have that natural intuitive feel that a manual SLR has - I almost have to force myself to look at the shutter speed and apperture that it's selected and think whether that is what I'm after. Also I'm not sure I quite understand how it deals with flash, particularly fill-in, the i-TTL system generally gets great press, but on some of my shots seemed to swamp the image.
However - the quality of pics on a quick 'grab' shot was really impressive and the missus is delighted with the 'kids' scene selector that seems to go for a quick-ish shutter speed and focus on the nearest object.
thanks for the advice
Phil
Of course it doensn't have that natural intuitive feel that a manual SLR has - I almost have to force myself to look at the shutter speed and apperture that it's selected and think whether that is what I'm after. Also I'm not sure I quite understand how it deals with flash, particularly fill-in, the i-TTL system generally gets great press, but on some of my shots seemed to swamp the image.
However - the quality of pics on a quick 'grab' shot was really impressive and the missus is delighted with the 'kids' scene selector that seems to go for a quick-ish shutter speed and focus on the nearest object.
thanks for the advice
Phil
Posted on: 24 April 2006 by Steve G
quote:Originally posted by Phil Sparks:
Of course it doensn't have that natural intuitive feel that a manual SLR has - I almost have to force myself to look at the shutter speed and apperture that it's selected and think whether that is what I'm after.
I find that with the DLSR I do much the same as I used to with a 35mm film camera and shoot in aperture priority mode. That way I just have to look at the shutter speed I'm getting and decide if it's ok. One nice thing that a DSLR has over a 35mm camera is that if it's not ok I've got the option of changing the effective ISO instead of changing the aperture.
On the comment that someone made along the lines of "moderm zooms are so good why bother with primes?" I find that it's true to a certain extent, however fast high quality zooms are usually heavy and expensive so there is still a place for fast primes. Consumer spec zooms are better than they once were however they're still slow and often corner sharpness is a problem.
Posted on: 24 April 2006 by Roy T
quote:My eyes aren't what they were, it's not as easy to use any more. I will miss the compact and excellent handling, the great system.
Same sort of problem using my 1-10 screen.
quote:Focusing Screen 1-10
Matte with etched horizontal and vertical lines. Similar to the original 1-4 screen, but with 3 horizontal and 5 vertical lines. There is a central vertical line, with the other vertical lines 7mm and 14mm from it. There is a central horizontal line, with the other horizontal lines 7mm from it. Originally intended for use with the shift lens, but found to be useful for composition and for keeping horizontal and vertical lines in the subject.
One more reason to move towards a new auto focus and digital something.
Posted on: 18 May 2006 by Rico
I went with the D70 with the kit lens 18-70dx. Really very pleased with it, and looking forward to finishing the war-and-peace owners manual that came with it (spiral bound, thank god!). Getting some pretty good results, which allows a foundation to continue my photgraphic education from without spending a fortune at the lab. Have been trying my old mid-zoom with it (the nikkor 70-210 f4-5.6D), it's crisp and quick.
For balance, also got an F80 body, so continuing with flim with a similar film body - although it handles better than the D.
conclusion? having lots of fun. which is surely what it's all about!
For balance, also got an F80 body, so continuing with flim with a similar film body - although it handles better than the D.
conclusion? having lots of fun. which is surely what it's all about!
Posted on: 18 May 2006 by garyi
Rico I have the non D version of the lens and they are super, I think yours is the same to mine except it focuses up a lot quicker.
The best bets round ebay at the moment are 50mm AF primes (1.8) and 55mm AI macros which really are great, although the macro needs to be used in manual.
The best bets round ebay at the moment are 50mm AF primes (1.8) and 55mm AI macros which really are great, although the macro needs to be used in manual.
Posted on: 18 May 2006 by Jagdeep
Ah
On topic.
I too was considering a D SLR but I have the Nikon F65 which is good enough for my needs. I'm now considering the Canon (sinner that I am as I've been a Nikohead from day 1) S3 1S which has unbelieveable macro and great features... and a 12x zoom! with stabiliser ... beats the pants off the Lumix FZ7.
Oh but if i were you, the DSLR of choice would be the D50 or D70 straight off.
cheers
Jag
On topic.
I too was considering a D SLR but I have the Nikon F65 which is good enough for my needs. I'm now considering the Canon (sinner that I am as I've been a Nikohead from day 1) S3 1S which has unbelieveable macro and great features... and a 12x zoom! with stabiliser ... beats the pants off the Lumix FZ7.
Oh but if i were you, the DSLR of choice would be the D50 or D70 straight off.
cheers
Jag
Posted on: 19 May 2006 by arf005
Rico - nice one!
I'm off to buy me birthday present on monday - Nikon D70s, finally decided and am looking forward to putting it to good use...
Cheers,
Ali
I'm off to buy me birthday present on monday - Nikon D70s, finally decided and am looking forward to putting it to good use...
Cheers,
Ali
Posted on: 19 May 2006 by Rico
I plan on getting the 50 1.8 soonish, will be useful on both bodies.
Guess I lucked out when I bought the 70-210 - it always struck me as pretty special (lovely colour) when I used it on my F50 body all those years ago.
55mm AI - man focus and man metering, or will metering not work and I need an external meter?
Is that your bairn, Garyi? great shot! Are you shoting NEF or JPEG?
Guess I lucked out when I bought the 70-210 - it always struck me as pretty special (lovely colour) when I used it on my F50 body all those years ago.
55mm AI - man focus and man metering, or will metering not work and I need an external meter?
Is that your bairn, Garyi? great shot! Are you shoting NEF or JPEG?
Posted on: 19 May 2006 by garyi
Yes thats Eddie.
After trying the latest hack of Aperture.app I decided I liked it so much I stumped up and purchased it properly, so I am shooting raw now.
After trying the latest hack of Aperture.app I decided I liked it so much I stumped up and purchased it properly, so I am shooting raw now.