do Macs sound better than PCs..?

Wrong in a couple of places. ITunes does higher bit rates and samples than you say. AE is indeed limited to 16/44 (for now).

Even though you use an NAS, the data still comes back via your computer. Nothing goes from the NAS direct to the Airport Express. The computer is totally involved. The computer obviously also is involved in making the rips in the first place if you started with CDs.

The drive you use to hold the data will make zero differnce to the sound quality. (OK, there could perhaps be a secondary impact due to a bad switch-mode power supply on your NAS contaminating your mains and consequently the analogue section of your SN.)

I also use an AE into a SuperNait. As you say, it works very well - but PCstockton scoffs and sneers at us on a regular basis nonetheless.

Oh, and by the way, my ears can't pick the difference between optical direct connection or via AE at 16/44. The direct connection would theoretically give you better results on higher bit-rate/sample depth music by removing the AE limitation in this regard. I don't have any music like this so I don't care (for now).

In my opinion, having played with both PCs and MACs in my system, assuming both are using lossless rips the issues are more to do with the differences between interfaces. MAC seems to only offer optical out, whereas PCs seem to offer both optical and coax out. (obviously depending on the audio hardware).

From experiments I have condicted at home with various sources and a couple of dacs, I can support the generally held belief that coax sounds better than optical.

I have heard fantastic music from a properly configured MAC (set to 24bit) through my 552/500 system. If I were being harsh I prefer a coax source. But I could happily live with the 24bit mac.

Either solution requires a bit of "techieness" to configure the system & software correctly. This is a bit geeky which is why an HDX type solution appeals to some.

Graham

Agree with both Winkyincanada and Graham. If you have the VDH optical with the glass fibers , I would not worry about coax, I have been trying one for the past few days and the rumours are true, can't tell a difference. You can do coax on a mac tower if you want, you just need other bits. I work in audio production and it seems over the past couple of years every one I know including myself, has switched over to Mac....but not because they "sound" better but because there is a lot less "techieness" on Macs, a lot less headaches. When you are either making music or enjoying music, you want as little techie head-scratching as possible ! Just my opinion but the Mac operating system is an absolute joy to use after using Windows.

You can get equally fantastic sound quality out of both PC and Mac , I am just happy that I no longer feel like throwing computers out the window !

No need to scoff and sneer about using an AE, if it sounds great and you enjoy it, who cares

cheers

cheers guys, the AE doesnt really worry me at all. i downloaded a few sample 24bit recordings to see what all the fuss was about, they do sound good but 99.5% of my music is ripped from standard CDs. i still like to have a hard copy just incase!...

my system sounds spot on, ive just been looking at Macs and am wanting to know if the differences are sonically better or just physical.

adding the VHD optical was the best thing i could have done for the AE. the sounds richer and has that texture you get from coax.

i dont mind techiness about PCs ive been using them since windows 3.11 and DOS were around...

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:
Wrong in a couple of places. ITunes does higher bit rates and samples than you say. AE is indeed limited to 16/44 (for now).

Even though you use an NAS, the data still comes back via your computer. Nothing goes from the NAS direct to the Airport Express. The computer is totally involved. The computer obviously also is involved in making the rips in the first place if you started with CDs.

The drive you use to hold the data will make zero differnce to the sound quality. (OK, there could perhaps be a secondary impact due to a bad switch-mode power supply on your NAS contaminating your mains and consequently the analogue section of your SN.)

I also use an AE into a SuperNait. As you say, it works very well - but PCstockton scoffs and sneers at us on a regular basis nonetheless.

also from what i understand so far is, itunes cant auto detect which bit rate or Hz a file is, so all your music has to be one or another. changing setting between the two is a ball ache and frankly uninteresting

Haroldbudd

You work and live with this stuff everyday so that gives you a bit of street cred with me....so I have a question for you>

VDH make cables optical from 1 - 2.5M in length, so is there any downside to using the longer cables in your opinion?

Cheers

Jim

IMO Macs sounding better than Pcs is a myth,
I think PCs are more flexible and tweakable, more software and hardware available to build a high quality music server.
Windows XP Kmixer limitation is easy to bypass through direct kernel or a proper ASIO driver. With Vista, WASAPI is a significant step ahead from XP mixer.

as far as i know large optical can run for miles. i work for a multi disiplinary architects firm (im an architect) and recently asked one of the M&E designers who specs networks and cables about the best domestic network, he said networked opticals can run for 100s of metres

so is there another system that beats both?

quote:

Originally posted by r-tee:
so is there another system that beats both?

HDX

Hi Exiled Highlander,

No, no downside that I know of. The thing that can screw with optical runs is bends and tight curves when using long runs. Thats why the fancier cables are usually dressed better, but still usually same junk plastic fibers inside. There is another company called Wireworld that make a Glass fiber optical that has been very well reviewed, and i believe the length goes up to 4 or 5 meters if you need it. I think it was cheaper then the VDH, can't recall right now, just do a search. But yeah, glass fiber optical surprised me a bit, I was sceptical. I think when I was looking into it, someone had wrote that while you might just think it's simply bleepy light traveling.... imagine looking at that light thru a piece of plastic three feet thick or a piece of nice glass three feet thick...kinda makes sense right? And thinking like that, it makes sense that you want to avoid sharp bends as that would make the light bleeps bounce and affect their arrival at the reciever. I am sure a real audio engineer could explain it better.....but the last few days I have become a fan of glass optical for sure, very very close if not the same as coax.

I am not the real piano-ambient godfather Harold Budd by the way, just a forum name. I do work all day making strange noises, and mixing others noises, but thanx for giving me cred !

cheers
joaquim

Back on subject. There was an article posted a while ago about PCs and Macs wrt computer generated music. The author talked about Macs with all sorts of drivers add ons to improve sound quality. He also mentioned that friends of his preferred PCs and the overall consensus was that a properly outfitted pc was better. Most importantly he gave specifications for the type of PC and other hardware that was being used. Maybe we can find it, it was interesting.

I remember pricing out the specs and it was not cheap and if I remember correctly was approaching HDX prices.

Found it, called computer audiophile. They have numerous pc and mac "audiophile" configurations along with other "assembled" computers.

r-tee

quote:

i work for a multi disiplinary architects firm (im an architect)

bang goes your street cred then!

Haroldbudd

Thanks for the response.

gary1(US)

quote:

Back on subject.

You giving me a hard time here?

Jim

Goldfinch, you can run Windows (very well I might add) on all Macs now , so the "more software on PC " is actually the myth.

Also, no one claimed Macs sound better, they both can sound great set up right. As for PC being more physically tweaky, yup probably true, some things I like very simple and thus more reliable, I don't think any of us wished our Naits or Naim pre's had giant multi-band
equalizers on them !

cheers

Not sure why post disappeared.. Maybe the link.

Anyway, if you search computer audiophile you'll find information on construction "Reference PCs/Macs" Consensus seems to be that PC is better.

Pricing still and issue. To get to what they arrive at costs can really vary, but the reference level seems to cost anywhere from $4K USD and up dpeneding on what your custom computer contains. This is for the computer only and the range goes to $15K. Add the DAC, etc... They do not comment on ripping software unless they are using media monkey for interface and ripping.

Gary1(us)

I read an article once that said Celine Dion was the best singer in the world....

A PC and Mac can both be hooked up to a top of the line Prism AD/DA converter which costs $14000, and both will sound better than with a Beresford , or a Lavry. They Both will sound EQUALLY stunning. The article you mention simply does not reflect what I have been seeing the last few years in and out of studios with hordes of musicians switching to Mac. Not because of sound but simply due to ease of use and perhaps most importantly , reliability. Now, a real computer techie / audio engineer can get equally great sound from both PC and Mac, and I really mean this that anyone who says one is better than the other in terms of sound quality is either simply miss-informed or has an ingrained dislike for the other machine.

So getting back to the point, no, Macs don't sound 'better' than PC's. If your happy with your PC set-up sound-wise r-tee, then keep it and enjoy. If you get fed up with your operating system, then switch and you can always run Windows on the MAC! It just boils down to personal choice.

Can't wait to hear the new Naim DAC, it's sooo cheap compared to the PRISM !!

cheers

haroldbudd

quote:

Can't wait to hear the new Naim DAC, it's sooo cheap compared to the PRISM !!

Keep drinking that coffee....good entertainment from you today!

Cheers

Jim

yes,HB im looking forward to hearing the DAC as wall maybe just maybe it'll have streaming builtin too

Thanx Jim,

I drank it all, but morning has broken here which means the corner store is open. I have drank so much coffee in the last 24 hours that I actually posted in the " what are you listening to" thread, a pic of a girl with a big knife carving up a Yes album in my living room. Classy.
Good news is the track I have to finish sounds great and is almost done and I think I helped out a forum member in the padded cell with Logic pro/macbook questions. These trips to the forum were actually fun in between bouncing tracks and stuff like that. My comment about the Naim Dac was not meant to be snarky or anything like that, if any of us are going to spend a lot of hard earned money on a great DAC ( which I am sure the Naim will be ) well 2000 is a lot less than the really esoteric high-end crazy studio stuff out there right ?

No Sleep Till Berlin

j

Haroldbudd

I didn't for a moment think it was snarky! It was just in such sharp contrast to other posts that claimed it was too expensive, so your comment made me smile! As always it depends on your point of reference!

Cheers

Jim

I use the Wireworld Super Nova 5+ Optical Digital Cable for my Apple TV to Supernait connection. I see that it is available in lengths upto 8 meters. It is similar to the VDH in that it uses glass rather than plastic fibers. If you google it, you will see that it is well reviewed.

quote:

Originally posted by Graham Russell:

I have heard fantastic music from a properly configured MAC (set to 24bit) through my 552/500 system. If I were being harsh I prefer a coax source. But I could happily live with the 24bit mac.

Graham

Hi Graham,

How can I set the bit depths on a Mac? Is that necessary? Thought it works automatically. System Profiler tells me, my iMac has a Burr Brown PCM3052 with 16 or 24bit and up to 96kHz. System Profiler in my iBook tells nothing about audio


Cheers
Scaramucce

Hi Scaramucce,

Shut down iTunes, open up Audio Midi. On the left side of Audio Midi window, you select your output device ( your Dac ), then on right you can set bit depth and sample rate. Set bit rate output to 24, even if your music is 16, and your set.

j

Joaquim

That will only work if you are directly connected to a DAC via Toslink or whatever and not if you use Airport Express wirelessly, in which case there are no options to set and it will default to 16/44 as the AE max's out at that level - that's correct isn't it?

Jim

PS. Duh....it's been a long day as obviously Audio Midi won't see an ethernet device will it! I guess my point was that you will only have that option available if you are connected to something and it will be greyed out. It's been a long day....