Naim center channel - on side?

I don't really have an answer. A singular SBL will look silly. I think you know that.

And that the centre in my experience is better/more important than the rears in any configuration.

I use a singular SBL and 't's brilliant as L+C+R all have the same sonic characteristic BUT my centre SBL is hard against the wall like the left and rights, in front of a rack I think would be not on.

Placing a centre speaker on a rack with equipment not good as the vibrations will effect the kit. Can you not wall mount using something like this http://www.musicdirect.com/product/74486 so it was decoupled from your kit.

As for the Axent used vertical, how are you going to mount that? My guess is the horizontal spread of drivers it deliberate so vertical may take away the advantage. Also if you have enough space to do that could you not make it a bit more so you could have an SBL back against the wall with racks either side, ok for music, not good due to vibration but could work well for AV.

Thanks Stuart. I agree that I would like to have the SBL against the wall. However, there are 3 racks closely spaced between the DBLs (I know - bad placement compared to ideals but I'd have to give up my piano in order to relocate the equipment (i.e. won't happen). I can't build the racks high enough to clear the rack in the center. I can only move racks a short distance sideways to make room for something narrow. As unreasonable as it sounds, the narrow center channel on its side is physically feasible. My wife hasn't been willing to allow me to wall mount my turntable despite several discussions over years so I can easily say the wall mount of speakers the size/weight of an Axent, and an Axess, are not viable. The wall is actually not a strong wall anyway.
You are right that the horizontal spread of drivers is deliberate and definitely has purpose. By turning an Axent on its side I would be defeating some of the purpose but I wonder how much better it would be than using the phantom center as I have for years.
Shuffling racks and space, and other changes, are still rolling through my mind. I trust that something will work out well from ideas and time.
Mark

I assume you're intending to place the SBL on its side? Difficult to see how you could use it as a centre speaker otherwise, unless your display is placed very high up.

quote:

Originally posted by Dungassin:
I assume you're intending to place the SBL on its side?

That would be enormously silly as it would perform very poorly.

Luckily, it would fall apart in protest.

How exactly would the SBL be placed relative to the tv?
Is your tv mounted high enough to be above the SBL? If so, I would say the TV is too high. Centre of the TV should be roughly eye-height just like speakers should be ear-height.

The Axent is a great speaker but of course, very expensive. If you can get a nice deal and can afford it, probably the best solution sonically.
Why would placement be a problem? I know it's big or rather "wide" but surely the DBLs are more than 2m apart, aren't they?

I wouldn't place the centre on the Naim rack but you might consider using wall mounts. Even if it's just a pair of metal bookshelf-mounts. The Axent and Axess are placed on spikes anyway, so at least for the Axess two "L" shaped mounts should suffice and would probably sound pretty good if the mounts are solid enough.

But I have my Axess placed on four spikes on top of my secondary rack. One rack for Naim (in one corner) and another, smaller rack below the TV with just the sat-receiver, media center and the Axess on top. Sounds good to me

I have an Axess centre speaker positioned on its side - no problems with it at all, recommended to position it like that by my old Naim dealer.

Why would you stand an Axess on it's side, Tony?
Doesn't that look weird? Plus it adds extra height. I feel width is less of a problem underneath a tv than height.

If memory serves, the Axent had curved sides so I'm not sure you could set it on its side and expect it to stay there.

The Axcess had straight sides so not a problem, although it will be suboptimal. The best centre is obviously the Axent. The SBL would be great but the problem is that it's not a shielded speaker so having it so close to your rack is also suboptimal. A horizontally mounted Axcess or Axent sounds like the way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by GreenAlex:
Why would you stand an Axess on it's side, Tony?
Doesn't that look weird? Plus it adds extra height. I feel width is less of a problem underneath a tv than height.

The Axess sits nicely into the fireplace alcove.

Incidentally, having concerns about its sound being compromised I have experimented using it in the more conventional orientation but it sounds better vertical!

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:

quote:

Originally posted by Dungassin:
I assume you're intending to place the SBL on its side?

That would be enormously silly as it would perform very poorly.

Luckily, it would fall apart in protest.

No doubt true, but I was just trying to visualise how he was going to set it up.

@tonym:
Lovely room!!!
Looks great! Except for the poor Axess. Personally, I would probably have rather stood it on the floor horizontally (think it would also look nicer) but if you simply want it out of the way and have found that it also sounds better like that, then who can argue with that?

But it does look a bit lonely and small tucked away like that

Then again, I also don't like screens mounted that high. I find it uncomfortable over a longer period of time.

re Mark's problem:
I'd stick to my recommendations but would maybe sell the SBLs to fund the Axess or Axent. I think SBLs would probably be wasted on rears.
I am using Intro IIs and I might as well have bought a pair of mid-end sats. Or use the SBLs in a second system if you can.

Then again, with a pair of SBLs you could use them to set up 6.1 (SBLs as front and rear center) or 7.1 (Axess/Axent center and SBLs as rears/surrounds)

quote:

Originally posted by GreenAlex:

Looks great! Except for the poor Axess. Personally, I would probably have rather stood it on the floor horizontally (think it would also look nicer) but if you simply want it out of the way and have found that it also sounds better like that, then who can argue with that?

Then again, I also don't like screens mounted that high. I find it uncomfortable over a longer period of time.

Both the Acess and Axent are very deep. If you stick either on my floor they'll project too far forward, plus the axis of the speaker is too low in relation to the screen and the main speakers. Which is probably why it sounds better on its side...

Bearing in mind our ceiling's very low and we sit some 22 ft back from the screen, it's height is actually pretty ideal. I have given placements of such things a fair bit of thought!

Tonym

Does the centre channel sit against the wall ?

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:

quote:

Originally posted by Dungassin:
I assume you're intending to place the SBL on its side?

That would be enormously silly as it would perform very poorly.

Luckily, it would fall apart in protest.

Haha!

Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions. Tony - I especially appreciate insight from experience of the side mount.
Frank - I also well appreciate the concerns of mounting an Axent that has curved ends and the potential problem of having an SBL right in front of a rack. I'm interpreting your statements to suggest that an Axent is a substantial improvement over an Axess for a system like mine. That kind of insight is very helpful if I interpret correctly.

For more context - I can assure you that the SBL would not be mounted on its' side. (Thanks Adam - I like the way you phrased this.) The tv's bottom edge is at 53" so an SBL will easily fit below. fyi - we are finding this viewing height to work out just fine - even for long sessions.
I got special deals on SBLs. I think they sonically work well with DBLs, certainly great sound for the money. Selling an SBL (or a pair) would not get me close to the cost of an Axess or Axent but I do know of an Axent (new) at a seemingly good price. I don't actually have to spend any more money to set up the SBL, actively powered, as a center channel - but I do have to invest some time. I can appreciate that an Axent might be a better center channel (at least I would expect) than an SBL so I'm tempting myself with the idea of a good deal on an Axent instead of spending the time to resurrect an SBL.
Wall mounting an Axent (27kg) is physically possible but will not happen (family veto as well as weight concerns).

I know - this is an opportunity for anyone to tell me I need to entirely rework my configuration of the entire room. Let me clarify that the DBLs do have over 2m space between them. In theory that would mean a center channel could easily fit there. However, there are three racks of equipment between the speakers (6 amps, 2 supercaps, snaxo, turntable & power supply, DVD5, pioneer blu-ray, DAC, tuner, AV2, and 282 w/PSC). The shortest rack is the 4-tier in the center and it stands 38" tall (the two side racks are 44" tall with equipment).
I'll just say that having the equipment between the speakers is not my desire but is my best current option. The only other wall, on which I could arrange equipment, is the home of my piano and the piano stays. (yes - I've considered going through walls/etc. but above the equipment is attic and below is only crawlspace and behind the current wall is a hallway - no other placement works better.) You might be surprised to hear that the system actually sounds quite good despite the placement challenges.
Naturally someone could suggest that I downsize to eliminate at least five spaces so that I could get rid of the center rack and then the SBL could go against the wall right below the tv. (So far, you might guess, that I haven't made that compromise and I haven't found alternative racking options that would not be too tall and that I'd be willing to buy.)
Please feel free to make further suggestions.
Thanks!
Mark

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:
I have given placements of such things a fair bit of thought!

Apologies. I did not mean to imply otherwise.
Am I correct to assume that you had to angle the Axess a bit? I first thought maybe the proximity to the wall might be why it sounds so good, but of course the Axess has a slightly backward tilting face so you probably had to angle it, right?

Mark, family veto is of course a strong argument against wall mounting

This may sound weird at first, but as an alternative, would the center maybe fit underneath the rack? Or maybe upright in between two racks? Or are they somehow connected to each other?
Maybe instead of an automatic screen you need to ceiling mount your center

If all fails, and it looks and sounds good to you, maybe put all the less sensitive equipment in the center rack (bluray, dac, tuner, maybe psc), detach the rack from the other two and put the speaker on that one.
But would that not receive the same veto as wall-wounting an inch above the rack?

QUOTE]
That would be enormously silly as it would perform very poorly.

Luckily, it would fall apart in protest. [/QUOTE]

Haha![/QUOTE]

In my defence - look at the title of this thread.

Yes, I think it would be silly, but COULD think of ways it might be accomplished. They would, however, involve "surgery" to the SBL.

Tony, love the look of your viewing room. Alas, my own is much smaller (used to be my study), and such high placement of the TV/Screen would not be practicable. The living room is much larger, but SWMBO wouldn't let me "take it over".

quote:

Originally posted by Neill Ferguson:
Tonym

Does the centre channel sit against the wall ?

quote:

Am I correct to assume that you had to angle the Axess a bit? I first thought maybe the proximity to the wall might be why it sounds so good, but of course the Axess has a slightly backward tilting face so you probably had to angle it, right?

A picture's worth a lot of words...

just curious, tony, but what is the Axess standing on? directly on the stone oder did you put some kind of felt, fabric, spikes oder something in between the veneer and the stone floor?

Blaktak pads.

For those that don't know, the Axess and Axent have four location pads on the "proper" underside for use with spiked stands. I was never really clear about this...

Tony, the Axess's top and front are at right angles. If you turned the speaker over so it rests on the side we can see now, it would hug the column on the right and look smarter. I would not expect it to sound worse.

I too think that it would probably sound a bit better on if it were raised by 10 inches or so. This would bring the drive units into the same horzontal plane as those of the SL-2s.

But if you're happy with it, it doesn't really make much odds!

Tony could you not find a horizontal solution higher in the fire place so that as Frank says drive units were more aligned.

Obviously lighting the candles would be out.

or buy a chisel and sink the axess into that nice brick wall it's leaning against now



@mark: you wouldn't by any chance like to share a picture of your tv/rack/dbls for us to see to help think of a solution?

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Abela:
Tony, the Axess's top and front are at right angles. If you turned the speaker over so it rests on the side we can see now, it would hug the column on the right and look smarter. I would not expect it to sound worse.

There's a lot to this Frank!

You're quite correct re. the angle bit, but this then exposes four rather ugly black location pads that you currently can't see.

Raising the Axess up lowers the WAF and isn't an option.

Howard, If I mount the speaker horizontally it'd be too far to the left. Structural alterations aren't really an option either!

Anyway, sorry to hijack your thread Mark. A photo of your arrangement would be a good idea.