Majik DS v Supernait - demo'd yesterday

Posted by: Occean on 13 May 2009

Yesterday I had the day off work so wondered by a local dealer with a few questions about Linn’s Majik DS and Supernait’s. In a moment of luck the dealer offered a demo later in the day, so I took it up.

So, my current stereo system is Sonos -> AV2/150 -> Spendor S5e/REL Stampede.
While I love the AV performance, the stereo performance is good but not quite where I would like it. So recently I have been debating the idea of a Majik DS to replace the Sonos (and AV2 of decoding duties). I have already tried a few DAC’s but have not been blown away.

The dealer set me up with the following combination's, in this order:

Majik -> 112/150 (112 in absence of an AV2)
Sonos -> Supernait
Majik -> Supernait (digital and analogue)

Initially, without my Spendors, a pair of B&W’s were used circa £1k.

Round 1 : Majik/112/150/B&W
I was entirely under-whelmed, I listened for about 20 minutes and really was not impressed. Treble was harsh, dynamics were missing (I checked, the system was warmed up). So I had a quick word, and the speakers were promptly switched to a pair of PMC GB1’s.

Round 2: Majik/112/150/GB1’s
The speaker change was a revelation, I demo’d the GB1’s when I bought my Spendors and was a fan they, certainly have a low end punch that my Spendors lack, but the sweetness and speed of the Spendors won me over. But to the Majik, the reason for the listen. Playing CD quality FLAC’s the detail was really good, really everything was as expected, but it wasn’t significantly better than my home system, certainly nowhere near enough improvement for the £1.7k asking price for the Majik. For the record, the GUI’s on the Linn DS are really quite nice, I tried the iphone’s songbird which I liked the most, another version for the iphone with was mediocre and a version that ran on a Symbian platform which again seemed not too bad. It will also run with the slimserver remote and interface, which I understand to be the best of the bunch.

Round 3: Sonos/Supernait/GB1’s
Where to start, basically I was shocked. Its sounded absolutely fantastic, what really impressed me was the timing and speed – it sent a shiver down my spine which the last system did not. Listening to Gary Boyle’s Grumble was a revelation compared to the previous combo, it just had such snap (best word I could think of…). Needless to say I was very impressed.

Round 4: Majik/Supernait/GB1’s
I tested this out of curiosity and the dealer was also interested. Both digital and analogue sounded good, really good, I am unsure in isolation I could tell the two apart, but A/B comparison the digital into the Supernait was the winner for me. Interestingly, without extensive listening I do no think I could tell the difference between the Sonos and the Majik as a digital source, the dealer told me the Majik should sound better...

I did the entire test’s using 44.1/16 FLAC’s as I personally do not own anything else. I tried a few high rez ones on the Majik, and as you would expect they sounded quite a bit better. I really hope the industry goes this way.

So in conclusion, I am thoroughly impressed with the performance of the Supernait, paired with the Sonos (Does this mean the whole source first idea goes out the window?) I believe it works out cheaper than a CD5/122/150 (this was my first Naim setup)…and in my opinion out performs it by some margin. If I was an MP, I’d put it on expenses today, but in reality I just need to get it past the girlfriend and it’s mine, replacing my NAP150.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by lawoftrust
@ occean

Very interesting demo you did and nice report of that.

Regarding your question for source first in the last paragraph, I do not think that it "goes out of the window" but to the contrary, what you experienced is a difference in source. The interesting thing is that with a Supernait the source (DAC) is party integrated in the amp section. What your test clearly indicates/proves is the importance of a DAC within any streaming solution. But that should be nothing to wonder about.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by spacey
my system is similar to your round 3 dem: airport express/supernait/WB Arcs = Smile

whats the sonos GUI like? im thinking of losing the AE sometime soon
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by Occean
quote:
whats the sonos GUI like? im thinking of losing the AE sometime soon


I use my Sonos with iphone and PC. Both are very good, the iphone application supports album art etc, but not quite as trick as itunes.

I believe there is a full youtube demo on the sonos site.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by spacey
cheers. so are you gonna buy your option/round 3 dem?

ps you could do better with the speakers too, but you'll need a home dem of any you consider.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by Occean
quote:
Originally posted by r-tee:
cheers. so are you gonna buy your option/round 3 dem?

ps you could do better with the speakers too, but you'll need a home dem of any you consider.


For me, these speakers are perfect esp with the recent addition on an REL Stampede. It would really take something exceptional to replace them. Being fairly in-sensitive and hard to drive, they should really sing with the supernait's extra power (that's a yes to your last question!).
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by spacey
yes sorry i forget reading your post about the recent addition of the sub. do you know the SN has a sub out.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by Occean
quote:
do you know the SN has a sub out


Yes, but it will still be fed via my AV2 to its line level and high level from the suprtnait.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by spacey
cool hope you enjoy it. if your in need of saving some dosh analogue seduction are selling there demmo model. it has one small mark on the top somewhere though. 1650 was mentioned
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by JYOW
suprising that the sonos would sound the same as the majik DS. My experience with the Sonos is pretty mediocre, and the majik DS pretty awesome.

Could this be an indication of the poor resolving ability of the system. In my lessor system like the Meridian F80, everthing sounds pretty similar thru it. But my main naim system is much more sensitive to different recordings and small changes
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by Graham Russell
I use Sonos->Lavry DA10 into 552/500. It sounds awesome. Certainly no issues with lack of resolution or dynamics.

One issue I have found with Sonos is that it sounds pretty poor on Flac files that have been envoded with high compress. Low compression Flacs or WAV files sound much better. Probably due to lack of decoding processing power in the Sonos.

It gives my CD555 a run for its money.

Graham
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by james n
quote:
It gives my CD555 a run for its money.


Graham - don't talk such nonsense - you must be deaf Big Grin
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by spacey
if the majik DS and sonos (and AE via optical) were connected digitally via optical/coax into a dac, both can and will play the same files in its correct format frequency and hertz then it should and will sound exactly the same. its just a matter of setting them both up to do so.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by Graham Russell
quote:
Originally posted by james n:
quote:
It gives my CD555 a run for its money.


Graham - don't talk such nonsense - you must be deaf Big Grin


Cloth-eared me Winker
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by js
quote:
Originally posted by JYOW:
suprising that the sonos would sound the same as the majik DS. My experience with the Sonos is pretty mediocre, and the majik DS pretty awesome.

Could this be an indication of the poor resolving ability of the system. In my lessor system like the Meridian F80, everthing sounds pretty similar thru it. But my main naim system is much more sensitive to different recordings and small changes
It's not what he said. He was commenting about minor differences from their dig outs which shouldn't be confused with their stand alone performance. You can infer by the rest of the review that the DS is clearly better than a Sonos from their analog outs. I've found that the SN can also benefit from even better dig sources so I don't think Ocean has yet heard it's full capability. I know that the Sonos is jittered enough to put it into reclocking and it would appear that the dig out from the DS may not be much better. This does not directly reflect on its stand alone performance. The dealer seemed to think the DS dig out was a bit better which is what I'd expect so who really knows but I guarantee that a low jitter input with a solid clock will do wonders for most DACs.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by spacey
js, do you know of a streamer that has/does?
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by js
I still use a direct computer interface with a TC for now so I don't stream at home but the HDX is very good streaming from the dig out. You also need a good player setup to do the job which is part and parcel of an HDX. I know it's significantly better used this way than something like a Sonos which I do like.

Wavelab which isn't at all convenient is still better sounding as a computer program player via ASIO than any of the media programs regardless of tweeking but it's expensive and not user freindly for this purpose. This also doesn't relate to streaming.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by JYOW
quote:
Originally posted by r-tee:
js, do you know of a streamer that has/does?

r-tee has/does? I assume you mean solid clock and low jitter?

The Logitech Transporter has very low jitter and a solid clock. On top of that it also has word clock input for synchronization with an external clock. There are many who use their Transporter with 6 figures DCS/EMM DAC setup. These people with systems costing insane amount of money invariably stick by the lowly Transporter.

I do know of people who ordered the Transporter online and took advantage of the 14 days return policy, and found that it sounded no different than their $299 SB3 plus a DAC. But when clicked into their profiles, none of these people have systems of the caliber listed above. One guy had everything plugged into his TACT room equalization unit so of course everything would sound the same.

It would be very very interesting to compare the HDX with the lowly Transporter, hopefully in a reference class setup, and with extended in-home experience.

Despite being a Transporter owner, I would love for Naim to come up with streamers/DACs that have the Naim character and better the competition, mostly because of the solid built and compliance with the rest of my system, or that I am nuts about the brand. The Transporter is very very nice, but somehow it feels it will not last the 10s of years like my Naim gears.
Posted on: 13 May 2009 by Wazza69
Can I ask how you got digital from the Majik DS into the Supernait? I have one and as far as I know its analogue out only. If there is a way then it would be great as the Linn GUI options on a mac aren't great

Thanks
Posted on: 14 May 2009 by james n


Coax via the yellow RCA (and optical too) on the back panel (picture may have gone by the time you read this)
Posted on: 14 May 2009 by Wazza69
Ah true. Sorry. I think I got caught up with the annoyance of no digital inputs.
Posted on: 14 May 2009 by Occean
Oh and for the record, the digital out is the Same on the Sneaky as the Majik.

I reckon the sneaky would make a very nice hi-rez source into a supernait esp as they can be picked up just less than 850.
Posted on: 15 May 2009 by spacey
Can a sneaky go wireless?
Posted on: 15 May 2009 by Occean
I believe it is wired only
Posted on: 15 May 2009 by JYOW
Yes wired only. Linn thinks wireless too unreliable and possibly noisy.

Nothing that a small wireless bridge can't fix.
Posted on: 15 May 2009 by Wazza69
They recommend a ethernet via power solution which apparently works well