NBL Setup/placement help
Posted by: John on 06 January 2003
I just bought a used pair of NBLs and would like some help in placement. I have two walls that they can go against. One is 12 feet long which is an outside wall (Stucco) where my SBLs currently sit and the other is 13 feet long which has a bay window that is about 2 feet off the floor. The best place cosmetically and sonically based on the room shape is the 13 foot wall as I can sit further away from the speaker (if necessary) and the room is deeper in that direction. The opposite wall from the 12 foot wall is only 8 feet long so it isn't symmetrical.
I could try both of course but these speakers are huge and difficult to move. The SBLs are against the 12 foot wall because they need to sit next to wall for the base response. From what I have read the NBLs are a different design and have very little resonance. Do they need to sit close to the wall to get the best base response? Would the bay window play significantly into the sound of the NBLs?
Any help is appreciated.
John
I could try both of course but these speakers are huge and difficult to move. The SBLs are against the 12 foot wall because they need to sit next to wall for the base response. From what I have read the NBLs are a different design and have very little resonance. Do they need to sit close to the wall to get the best base response? Would the bay window play significantly into the sound of the NBLs?
Any help is appreciated.
John
Posted on: 06 January 2003 by Tristram
John.
My dealer suggested putting down a couple of pieces of carpet and testing out the speakers before putting in the spikes. That way you can see what distance works best from the wall, distance apart and if you want to toe in. That way you can try both locations for best results. The carpet should allow you the ability to move them without detroying your floor or breaking your back.
You might want to start with 12" from the back wall and see what you think.
Pay special attention to the manuals in terms of unpacking and the various bolts etc. Bit of a pain in the ass, but it can be done by yourself.
tw
My dealer suggested putting down a couple of pieces of carpet and testing out the speakers before putting in the spikes. That way you can see what distance works best from the wall, distance apart and if you want to toe in. That way you can try both locations for best results. The carpet should allow you the ability to move them without detroying your floor or breaking your back.
You might want to start with 12" from the back wall and see what you think.
Pay special attention to the manuals in terms of unpacking and the various bolts etc. Bit of a pain in the ass, but it can be done by yourself.
tw
Posted on: 06 January 2003 by J.N.
Not what you want to hear; but in my experience there is no substitute for lugging them round the room.
Rooms are variable and inconsistent in what they do to a speaker's output, not to mention your preferred sound.
Get a mate round, take the spikes off and get humping. (It's just your filthy mind!)
I helped a friend move his DBL's and he stuck some sliding discs onto MDF boards with holes drilled out to accept the spikes (thus being able to leave them on until the right spot is found)
Then you can slide them around (on carpet)
Unless you spend a few hours doing this, you'll never know if they're in the optimum position to suit you.
Good luck.
Rooms are variable and inconsistent in what they do to a speaker's output, not to mention your preferred sound.
Get a mate round, take the spikes off and get humping. (It's just your filthy mind!)
I helped a friend move his DBL's and he stuck some sliding discs onto MDF boards with holes drilled out to accept the spikes (thus being able to leave them on until the right spot is found)
Then you can slide them around (on carpet)
Unless you spend a few hours doing this, you'll never know if they're in the optimum position to suit you.
Good luck.
Posted on: 06 January 2003 by JeremyB
John,
You have my sympathy, I was in the same predicament. You do not mention if you have wooden flooring or carpet. If you have wooden floors you can put the NBL spikes on Naim Chips aka floor protectors (expensive) or get a freindly dealer to give/sell you some spare floor protectors he may have lying around for other makes of speakers (I chose the latter) Then you can carefully slide a towel under each speaker, 2 spikes at a time, front then back. Make sure the upper transit bolts are in place for this (the lower ones can be left out). You should be able to (slowly!) slide the whole speaker around the floor, by pulling on the towel, without dislodging the spikes.
Also, you do not say if the 2 feet space below the bay is flat or continues into it. If only the window is a bay, I think you will get pretty good results. I have mine in front of regular windows (along the "short wall) with only 18 inches of exterior stucco below the window. The results were far better than along the long wall, as well as looking much nicer and "drawing" people into the listening space. One point no-one mentioned yet is where to put the system while you rotate the speakers 90 degrees. Moving the stand is actually more trouble than moving the speakers, but is inevitable in your (and my) situation. I found that having the stand in between the speakers had a much greater effect (worse) than changing the position of both the speakers and the stand (with the stand to one side).
You have my sympathy, I was in the same predicament. You do not mention if you have wooden flooring or carpet. If you have wooden floors you can put the NBL spikes on Naim Chips aka floor protectors (expensive) or get a freindly dealer to give/sell you some spare floor protectors he may have lying around for other makes of speakers (I chose the latter) Then you can carefully slide a towel under each speaker, 2 spikes at a time, front then back. Make sure the upper transit bolts are in place for this (the lower ones can be left out). You should be able to (slowly!) slide the whole speaker around the floor, by pulling on the towel, without dislodging the spikes.
Also, you do not say if the 2 feet space below the bay is flat or continues into it. If only the window is a bay, I think you will get pretty good results. I have mine in front of regular windows (along the "short wall) with only 18 inches of exterior stucco below the window. The results were far better than along the long wall, as well as looking much nicer and "drawing" people into the listening space. One point no-one mentioned yet is where to put the system while you rotate the speakers 90 degrees. Moving the stand is actually more trouble than moving the speakers, but is inevitable in your (and my) situation. I found that having the stand in between the speakers had a much greater effect (worse) than changing the position of both the speakers and the stand (with the stand to one side).
Posted on: 07 January 2003 by John
Thanks for the info, I like the idea of using carpet under the speakers to slide them along. My room is carpeted so I don't need any floor protection.
Do the NBLs use the wall for it's base like the SBLs or can they sit say 2-3 feet away from the wall? My only experience is with B&W speakers and SBLs. The B&Ws needed to sit as far away from the wall as possible. The SBLs use the wall for it's base.
John
Do the NBLs use the wall for it's base like the SBLs or can they sit say 2-3 feet away from the wall? My only experience is with B&W speakers and SBLs. The B&Ws needed to sit as far away from the wall as possible. The SBLs use the wall for it's base.
John
Posted on: 07 January 2003 by J.N.
John
All Naim speakers are made for boundary placement, but as ever it's what sounds right to you.
If, like a friend with NBL's; they have to go fairly close to corners, you may need to have them away from the wall to cure too much bass.
All Naim speakers are made for boundary placement, but as ever it's what sounds right to you.
If, like a friend with NBL's; they have to go fairly close to corners, you may need to have them away from the wall to cure too much bass.
Posted on: 08 January 2003 by NigelP
John,
I had terrible trouble installing my NBLs but I got there in the end. I found that the shortest wall was the best and mine are about 18-20 inches from the wall. The other thing that I found is that the bass units need plenty of space to get the bass response right. I had lots of bass-boom and unwanted sound. In the end my dealer suggested starting near to the wall and move them forward until the horrible bass response goes away. The speakers need at least 2 feet either side them and you should never put your system in between them - those bass units will reak havoc! Good luck with them and let us know how you get on.
Nigel
I had terrible trouble installing my NBLs but I got there in the end. I found that the shortest wall was the best and mine are about 18-20 inches from the wall. The other thing that I found is that the bass units need plenty of space to get the bass response right. I had lots of bass-boom and unwanted sound. In the end my dealer suggested starting near to the wall and move them forward until the horrible bass response goes away. The speakers need at least 2 feet either side them and you should never put your system in between them - those bass units will reak havoc! Good luck with them and let us know how you get on.
Nigel
Posted on: 09 January 2003 by John
The NBLs arrived yesterday and after unpacking them I noticed some problems.
The piece of wood that screws into the back of the speaker that is used to brace the tongue with the upper transit bolts was pulled/ripped out during shipping. The speakers must have been jolted in the transit. After reading through the instructions I repositioned the speaker enclosure more forward and the enclosure still has a bounce similar to the CDS1 transport suspension so I assume it's OK. How would I know if there is a problem?
The center knob for one of the speakers at the base of the speaker looks like it came off in shipping. It looks like the knob just needs to be put back on. How do I get access to the speaker behind the grill? Do I have to access it from the bottom of the speaker?
The midrange driver has some plastic that goes into the cut groove that circles this speaker. The plastic is pushed in on some places. Is this normal or should I be refitting plastic back into the groove? If so how would I do it?
Regarding the sound, they are stunning! I now understand how much distortion the SBLs have. I now have them against the bay window wall and they sound great with no apparent boom effect. The base is stunning (it can growl at times) and more natural sounding. I will have to wait for them to settle and warm up before I do any final tweaking.
Help is appreciated.
John
The piece of wood that screws into the back of the speaker that is used to brace the tongue with the upper transit bolts was pulled/ripped out during shipping. The speakers must have been jolted in the transit. After reading through the instructions I repositioned the speaker enclosure more forward and the enclosure still has a bounce similar to the CDS1 transport suspension so I assume it's OK. How would I know if there is a problem?
The center knob for one of the speakers at the base of the speaker looks like it came off in shipping. It looks like the knob just needs to be put back on. How do I get access to the speaker behind the grill? Do I have to access it from the bottom of the speaker?
The midrange driver has some plastic that goes into the cut groove that circles this speaker. The plastic is pushed in on some places. Is this normal or should I be refitting plastic back into the groove? If so how would I do it?
Regarding the sound, they are stunning! I now understand how much distortion the SBLs have. I now have them against the bay window wall and they sound great with no apparent boom effect. The base is stunning (it can growl at times) and more natural sounding. I will have to wait for them to settle and warm up before I do any final tweaking.
Help is appreciated.
John
Posted on: 10 January 2003 by Simon Adams
Hi John,
I've had my NBL's for nearly two years now. They are still situated (pretty much) exactly where my dealer left them after installation. They are positioned 2 meters apart, 4 inches from the rear wall, and 20 inches from the side walls. As Cliff Patterson mentioned in his response above, I also found that a little 'toe in' is essential. I have no bass boom (even though the NBL's are so close to the rear wall). The high ceiling in my sitting room may prevent boomy bass, or it may be the NAP500 preventing any unwanted bass boom.
Take a look at the attached pictures below - I hope they help you. The dimensions of my sitting room are approx 12-13ft wide by 24ft long.
Cheers,
Simon.
Picture 1 (538K)
Picture 2 (2.1Mb)
Picture 3 (1.2Mb)
Picture 4 - Mid Range NBL Driver
[This message was edited by Simon Adams on SATURDAY 11 January 2003 at 00:10.]
I've had my NBL's for nearly two years now. They are still situated (pretty much) exactly where my dealer left them after installation. They are positioned 2 meters apart, 4 inches from the rear wall, and 20 inches from the side walls. As Cliff Patterson mentioned in his response above, I also found that a little 'toe in' is essential. I have no bass boom (even though the NBL's are so close to the rear wall). The high ceiling in my sitting room may prevent boomy bass, or it may be the NAP500 preventing any unwanted bass boom.
Take a look at the attached pictures below - I hope they help you. The dimensions of my sitting room are approx 12-13ft wide by 24ft long.
Cheers,
Simon.
Picture 1 (538K)
Picture 2 (2.1Mb)
Picture 3 (1.2Mb)
Picture 4 - Mid Range NBL Driver
[This message was edited by Simon Adams on SATURDAY 11 January 2003 at 00:10.]