Kan Maintenance - very worthwhile.

The upside-down Kans trick might be one of my tweaks. I tried it when I changed my Kan I tweeters to the neodymiums and thought it sounded a little tame afterwards. The new tweeters have the dome much further forward than the old and at the time I thought this tameness might have been the result of altering the phase relationship between the tweeter and the mid/bass units. I flipped the Kans over (to increase the distance to the tweeter) and appeared to get back much of the speed that I love about the Kans.

Then I had an affair with ES11's for a while.

Now I'm back with the Kans again. Still can't believe how good they are. This time with the Kans right way up. I've changed a few things since last time I used them and they now sound a bit too light upside down (less bass reinforcement from the floor). I've gone from CDS2/52/180 to CDS2/82/180 (no hicaps or supercap). I've also been slowly swapping bits of my standard QS racking for QS Reference and everytime I do this the system just gets cleaner and tighter.

Its possible that when I first tried the Kans flip-sided it was the decrease in bass that gave them more apparent speed.

Allan

BTW, the neodymium tweeters are a definite thumbs up, and cheap to do !

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Luckins:
Hi everyone,

I am now contemplating getting inside and upgrading the crossover. Does anyone think this is wise??

Grateful for any advice.

John Boy

---

Hi,
If you've got the balls for it. (and I'm not being rude. Just making a suggestion) You can dismantle the whole thing and make a decent job of it. They sound incredibly boxy because they have a very tiny box stuffed with a bit of wool and pads of fibreboard.
I re-built my Kan bass units into 10" heavy fibreglass balls. Actually torusses(?). They call them fishing floats and they come in bright orange (or bright orange) to taste. They are incredibly cheap too. I think I paid less than £8 in real money to the harbourside boat chandler here in Denmark for 2 new ones.
The crossovers are glued to the inside of the Kan boxes with something that flows over the whole thing. Hot glue? It took a lot of care & patience to remove them safely. You'll want to unsolder the units first of course. Do not underestimate how difficult it is to remove the crossovers. I used a series of wood chisels and screwdrivers. If I'd thought about it I could have tried a big electric soldering iron with a spade blade and melted them free.(?).
The front baffle is stuck in with mastic. I used a G-cramp and a strong piece of plank (padded to protect the veneer). Patience and nerves of steel required throughout the dismantling process.
The speaker units themselves are held into the boxes with a firm sticky mastic that can be released by slowly screwing a screw into one of the existing holes in the unit basket. (Once all the screws are removed). Likewise the tweeter though I think this prised out without difficulty.I removed the baffles to be able to press the tweeters out from the back. These latter I built into 4" polycarbonate spheres. Outside light shades? Though smaller fishing floats would have been better.(More solid). I filled them with sand in double poly bags to deaden them round the tweeter unit.
You can put a long threaded rod through the central hole of the 10" torus (fishing float) and bolt it to a plate on the speaker stand. I fitted a long flat plate with a long slot to the top of the woofer sphere. So I could play with phase between tweeter and woofer. I experimented with double poly bags of dry sand in the woofer enclosure to match the original bass response. If anyone is really interested I could take some didgy piccies. Not sure about picture policy on the group regarding the Scottish company. <g>
Finally, you won't believe how boxy they sound if you go back to the Kan boxes afterwards. (I put mine back together when I bought the 753's.)
If you are the least bit ham fisted (and I'm not and have loads of tools) DON'T! Go out and buy the units and crossovers from Wilmslow or somebody. That way you'll still have Kans that work afterwards. And something to compare your DIY efforts with.

Nime

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Thanks for your ideas gents.

Simon,

I got new tweeters fitted in 1985. Don't know if they were the same ones you are referring to but they told me at the time that they were an update. I'll try them upside down this weekend.

Nime,

Taken me a while to digest your suggestions. Would love a photo if possible- will help me build up the courage to try. Might have a go at a Kan clone with new drivers and an evenmore rigid cabinet unless I can get a second hand pair. My sister has some black ones which I might be able to tempt from her.

Any ideas on going active with a Nait and two 135's anyone.

John,

The neo tweeters refered to are the newest ones linn has available. They come in the ninka etc, and have the vertical bars over the dome.
They are a huge improvment over the original scanspeak / hiquphon units.

Cheap and worth a try. Not all that hard to change either. I also have had them installed. I did it last February and don't regret it. The tweeter does take a very long time to loosen up, so they will sound all over the place for a bit.

Another thing you could try in the meantime is to give your tweeter a good vacuuming. Use the extension wand and bring it close to the dome, use your finger as a guide so you don't get too close. Quite a few people have reported quite good results from this.

As for the power thing, I think its a non-starter. While the amps should have the same gain... You would want the 135's on the tweeters - general rule of thumb is the better amps on the tweeters.

Are they on KanII stands? If not investigate getting them. Linn has them available for a good penny, and they come up on occasion. Do your kan's have the binding post or sockets?

Good luck, and look into the new tweeter.

regards,

michael

Nime

OK man, you gotta post a picture of your speakers!

Cheers

Keith.

Nime,

Your description of the amount of effort it took you to dismantle your Kans would seem to indicate that they were very well built in the first place.

Craig

Mykel

Thanks I'll try vacuuming the tweeter this weekend and then get the newest tweeters as you suggest.

I've got the latest stands and these made a huge difference. Also got sockets not binding posts.

Still keen to improve the crossover if possible, perhaps same value but better components.

Nime, we've just got to see your speakers. Do they look like home grown Blueroom Minipods?

John

Hi,
Actually they looked like bright orange fishing floats (with little speakers in them) sitting on speaker stands. Committed Naimites could always spray them black (or olive) to taste. SWMBO factor?
I read somewhere that the best theoretical shape for an enlosure (externally) was a sphere. Since I was reaching the end of my love hate relationship with the Kans. There seemed to be little to lose. I wanted (above all) some real stereo imaging. As I was using a pair of (home built) David Purton passive subwoofers. I wasn't bothered by the lack of real bass with the Kans.
Seeing the net floats hanging from the boats in a nearby harbour was the 'eureka' moment. These floats are thick, very strong plastic and ideal. A complete range of sizes is available. I chose the size nearest to the internal volume of the Kan and adjusted later with small sand bags which also broke up the internal torus shape somewhat.
Vol sphere = 4/3 Pi r^3.
Anyway, give me a few hours to get all the bits back together again and I'll post some didgy piccies. Of the Kans' naughty bits AND the spherical objects.

Nime

Blob

Blob on Atacama

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Kan crossover

Kan baffle

Inside Kan

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Blob with unit

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Hi,
I didn't try to recreate the whole thing. You'll have to imagine the 4 inch sphere with the tweeter supported on an adjustable plate just above the big Blob. I haven't had these speakers together (as they were) for ages. So had to collect the bits together to make the pictures. There was a collar between the base of the Blob and the stand (for appearance and stability). The units themselves were "faired" in with kids (non-drying) black modelling clay.
Probably the images of the inside of the Kans are more interesting and useful to those with Kans. As new, a number of the baffle screws rotated without effort. I found out why when I removed the baffle.(splits in the fixing battens) BTW the inside picture is upside down. You can just see the solder blobs from the ends of the exposed terminals of an early Kan. Most of the weight of the Kan is in the bass/mid unit's magnet.
The 2 crossovers were arranged to show both sides for those who would upgrade. Cleaning the rubbery material (hot glue?)from them to swap components might be a problem.
I just hope some of this is useful to somebody. If only as a warning not to repeat the exercise? Though if you fancy having a go then e-mail me direct and I'll help where I can.

Nime

[This message was edited by Nime on FRIDAY 17 January 2003 at 22:23.]