Naim DAC vs Transporter

Posted by: AMA on 16 February 2010

Now I have finished the first bunch of tests over Naim DAC.

The setup was Logitech Transporter/DigitalCable/DAC/XPS/282/2*HC/250.2/ProAc D28.
Digital Cable was Klotz RAC coaxial and VDH Optocoupler optical.
Klotz was a tad better than optical. Better clarity -- very small effect.
I'm not sure this was because of the cable difference or
because of the difference between Transporter RCA/TOS output
or because of the difference between DAC RCA/TOS input.
The rest of the listening was performed with coaxial.

Brief summary of contenders.

I will not go deep into A/B test against CD5X because TP->DAC combo was WAY ahead of it in all aspects.
The actual test was against Logitech Transporter through analogue output and TP->PS Audio DLIII. Both used 2*RCA->DIN cable.

Logitech Transporter is one of the best sounding sources I have ever tried -- in Red Book it comes very close to KDS -- although the KDS owners will consider the gap as HUGE and put TP to ADS level or even lower Smile
In terms jitter this is one of the best digital transports on the market. I'm not sure if further reduction of jitter on Red Book can be audible.
TP shows fantastic resolution and 3D imaging.
The problem is that I don't like TP analogue output. It's a bit slow and lean and analytical -- it lacks a PRAT of Naim CDPs (like CD5X).
I recall that I liked KDS more than TP just because KDS was more energetic. KDS is also smoother than TP - I think because of the transformer coupled outputs.

PS Audio DLIII is a very good DAC -- same league as Lavry and TP but owns idiosyncratic sound presentation.
Not as neutral as TP and a bit forward (human voices fire up a bit "in your face"). But very soft and energetic -- closer to Naim.
It does not use re-clocking and needs a low jitter input to show it's best. When pairing with TP you get a very good resolution.

After several months of continuous trials I have found myself of listening TP->DLIII almost all the time which means that I belong to those of us who can compromise (with a deep sorrow of course) with a sound resolution in favor of tuneful sound presentation.

Both TP and DLIII were the benchmarks for Naim DAC in different aspects: high resolution and imaging of TP and energy of DLIII.

I was the first user of the long-awaited demo piece and had a chance to unpack the new box.
Honestly -- after those shipment delays and poor explanations and gossips around for almost 6 months I expected from Naim to pacify customers frustration with a bonus bottle of whisky in the box Smile

I would avoid a tedious description of the first days of auditioning -- I only mention that sound was kept changing for all 4 days while DAC stayed with me.

I started tests with a bare DAC, original IC and stock power cord and Red Book CDs ripped on a NAS drive.
Many of the test records were XRCD and XRCD24 which offer a superior dynamic range and very low jitter.

First of all -- it betters TP-> DLIII in resolution and on par with TP through analogue.
I was prepared to hear a vast superiority of Naim DAC in resolution due to re-clocking circuitry -- but it didn't happen.
Possibly because TP as a digital transport suggests a very low jitter bitstream so that there is no space for improvement.
Possibly because the DAC was not fully burnt-in.
Second -- DAC soundstage is very deep and wide and the imaging is holographic -- better than TP and DLIII (not much).
Third -- it's a very typical Naim sound. Very neutral, very fast and very euphonic. Transients are crystal clear.
The downside is that DAC is a bit edgy -- more aggressive than CD5X, closer to CDX2.
Overall it was definitely far from the culture shock after the first listening session of CDS3...

Adding a PL and HilIne was more audible than when you hook them on CD5X. HiLine brought much more than PL.
The sound became more open and detailed -- but improvement revealed more edginess.

The last step was adding XPS. I didn't hear much of the changes in resolution. But the analogue section suffered a serious transformation -- it smoothed the sound substantially.
The background became blackish like TP. Bass became even tighter. Very analogue-like. This was much better than CDX2/XPS and much better than both TP and DLIII.
PL on XPS is more audible than on DAC.
The TP/DAC/XPS/PL/HL setup is definitely close to the best sources I have ever tried: CDS3, ARC CD5 and Klimax DS -- would be interesting to do A/B test.
It's also interesting to test TP through BNC against CDX2-2 and HDX through BNC. I will not be surprised to see TP to be a winner, but there is only way to know it for sure ...

I have some difficult tracks where an instrument or a voice stands out "in your face" or dominates over the rest of the mix.
Sometimes, for example, Roger Waters or Mike Oldfield solo guitar is so harsh-- just unbearable.
But KDS and ARC CD5 manage to smooth it down -- just in the same way as Naim DAC/XPS did.

Well-done Naim!

Unfortunately the demo piece was taken away for other hungry users and I was promised to get my own box in the next shipment.
I have added another PL and DC1 to the order (one PL will got on DAC and one on XPS). TP has transformer coupled BNC which I can use with DL1 and switch ground to Chassis.
Next time I shall come back after one week of burn-in and also elaborate more on hi-res tests. I hope it will happen next month.

It's still amusing to see how a 2$K TP designed in 2006 by an amateur audiophile from Silicon Valley keeps competing with 2010 top products from venerable hi-end manufacturers.
While giving up by a small margin in analogue section it still proves it's strength as a digital transport.

Bravo Sean!
Posted on: 16 February 2010 by DaveBk
Thanks AMA - I suspect the Transporter -> Naim DAC will become widely known as a great combo!
Posted on: 16 February 2010 by Bloom
Thanks for this review AMA. I own a Logitech Transporter and I'm very pleased with it. One day a separate DAC will join the set. But €2600(2267GBP) is a lot of money. So I'll wait for a little while. Frown.
Nevertheless, thanks again.

Henk
Posted on: 16 February 2010 by Dustysox
quote:
Originally posted by DaveBk:
Thanks AMA - I suspect the Transporter -> Naim DAC will become widely known as a great combo!


I can 2nd that.
Posted on: 16 February 2010 by js
Takes the DAC some time to settle in. I bet the next visit will be even better. Smile Started to fill out after about a week
Posted on: 16 February 2010 by Asenna04
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
I have added another PL and DC1 to the order (one PL will got on DAC and one on XPS). TP has transformer coupled BNC which I can use with DL1 and switch ground to Chassis.
Bravo Sean!


To your quote above, what will be the benefit of adding the PL on the DAC if you are using an XPS? Surely the analogue sections on the DAC are powered by the XPS and the power cable to the DAC is just for the software side.

But great report!

I also found the DAC sounding very well with TP, but decided to stick to the Duet receiver for now and add the Touch when it is released. I expect the Touch to be close to TP because it also has low jitter, although I realise not as low as TP. I tested the DAC with both the XPS and 555PS and the 555PS does improve o XPS but not as much as the XPS does on the bare DAC.

Also, if you can add just 1 PL to the system, where would it be best to place it? Poweramp (250.2), Supercap or 555PS. I know I should test the different combinations but I would like to hear other peoples findings.

ASenna04
Posted on: 16 February 2010 by AMA
quote:
To your quote above, what will be the benefit of adding the PL on the DAC if you are using an XPS?

I did not try this but I think there will be no audible improvement -- I plan to do it as a charity to Naim Smile

quote:
Also, if you can add just 1 PL to the system, where would it be best to place it? Poweramp (250.2), Supercap or 555PS.


It much depends on your particular system. Theoretically it should be 555PS first, SC second and poweramp the last. I did trials with PL on source (CD5X/HC), preamp (282/HC) and poweramp (250.2). In my case PL on poweramp was the most audible -- it increased the sound tightness immediately.
The second PL has found the best place on HC feeding preamp -- it opened a sound a bit, but it takes time to justify.
I also tried to remove both PLs and then set them back -- the difference from 2 PLs was VERY audible.
A very serious and reasonable upgrade in quality -- comparable to usual Naim box upgrade.
Unfortunately PL did not work well on HC feeding CD5X. Possibly internal CD5X voltage regulation is not good enough to discern the difference introduced by HC enhanced with PL. Instead HiLine alone on CD5X brings bigger improvement than two PLs. Hiline and PLs transform my system substantially. By the way I tried Hiline and PL on DAC/XPS and that was fantastic upgrade -- much more audible than CD5X/HC.
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by js
My guess as I haven't tried is that you'll notice a PL wherever you put it but the amount of influence will vary so that value will be very personal.

An XPS or 555ps powers a lot more than the analog section.

"With the HDX connected to an external supply the microcontroller continues to be powered by the internal toroidal transformer. This is done so that all the external supplies are best utilised for powering the various digital circuits. In this mode the pre-regulators for the DAC digital and the de-jittering circuits are fed by the external supply and therefore triple regulated." Not mentioned but this includes the clock. Block diagram here. http://www.naim-audio.com/down...%20Disk%20Player.pdf
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by Fred Mulder
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
It's still amusing to see how a 2$K TP designed in 2006 by an amateur audiophile from Silicon Valley keeps competing with 2010 top products from venerable hi-end manufacturers.


Until Naim releases its streamer this year?? (we´ll probably know somewhere 2011 Smile)
Also curious if the tiny Touch could bring some surprises in big brand audio land.

Thanks for the review AMA,
(and for learning me a great new English word: idiosyncratic)
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by AMA
js, I'm not sure -- but it seems that not all the XPS rails are used when feeding a DAC -- unlike CDS3 and HDX. You can check up the number of DAC Burndy input connections... The demo piece was taken from me but you have your own piece I guess -- can you tell us more on this?
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by Frank Abela
AMA,

Thanks for the info. Can you tell me what kind of files were on the NAS drive - whether you're using Lossless/FLAC/WAV?
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by AMA
quote:
AMA,

Thanks for the info. Can you tell me what kind of files were on the NAS drive - whether you're using Lossless/FLAC/WAV?

Lossless FLACs only. Ripped with EAC and verified through Accurate Rip.
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by js
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
js, I'm not sure -- but it seems that not all the XPS rails are used when feeding a DAC -- unlike CDS3 and HDX. You can check up the number of DAC Burndy input connections... The demo piece was taken from me but you have your own piece I guess -- can you tell us more on this?
I believe that they are and I just did a Powerline vs standard cable on the dig control side of the DAC. Quite audible. I'll be using one.
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by David Dever
Only the 555 uses all seven rails–others use six.
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by Dustysox
Any point in adding Powerline to Transporter?
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by AMA
I will check it the next week -- when DAC and another PL will come.
TP uses switching PS for digital circutiry which may adversely affect the rest of equipment sitting on the same spur -- so possibly PL can improve indirectly.
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by DaveBk
My Transporter's special... No SMPS, it's linear all the way. But that's another story Winker
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by AMA
quote:
My Transporter's special... No SMPS, it's linear all the way. But that's another story Winker

I know! I have read your posts on Slim Devices forum (or was it pink fish?). Initially Sean didn't believe that sound improvement will justify the replacement of SMPS with linear PS. But after all he praised your solution highly Smile
Possibly non-Naim users will not find much changes but Naim has a peculiar design which is very sensitive to the ground noise.

How do you think -- will it breach the rights if I follow your careful instructions and repeat this exercise? Roll Eyes
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by js
Only because they don't dumb down the ground and allow it to be better with care.
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by DaveBk
AMA, happy to provide more details, but it would have to be off forum to stay within the rules. Also, you would have to be really sure over what you were doing as I'd hate for you to mess up your Transporter.
Posted on: 20 February 2010 by alainbil
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
Now I have finished the first bunch of tests over Naim DAC.

(.. )

Bravo Sean!


I have a layman question : what is the connection between the TP and the NAS?
Posted on: 20 February 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by alainbil:
I have a layman question : what is the connection between the TP and the NAS?


Network connection is either 802.11g wireless or 100Mb Ethernet.

NAS must run SqueezeCenter /SlimServer / Squeezebox Server (all names for the same thing) as a mediaserver.

-
aleg
Posted on: 21 February 2010 by AMA
quote:
I have a layman question : what is the connection between the TP and the NAS?

After the first experiments I failed to discern the difference between Wi-Fi and wired ethernet so I ended up with Wi-Fi.
Also my TP never gets into buffering unless I source bitstream from internet radio.
Posted on: 21 February 2010 by alainbil
AMA

Could you connect the NAS ( that is "PC ->M-Audio Transit ->VDH Optocoupler", if I read your profile correctly) directly to the NAIM DAC ?
Posted on: 21 February 2010 by js
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
quote:
I have a layman question : what is the connection between the TP and the NAS?

After the first experiments I failed to discern the difference between Wi-Fi and wired ethernet so I ended up with Wi-Fi.
Also my TP never gets into buffering unless I source bitstream from internet radio.
Why don't you try rebuilding a FLAC to wave and compare on playback?
Posted on: 22 February 2010 by AMA
quote:
AMA

Could you connect the NAS ( that is "PC ->M-Audio Transit ->VDH Optocoupler", if I read your profile correctly) directly to the NAIM DAC ?

In fact, NAS --> TP -> DAC and PC ->M-Audio Transit ->VDH->DAC are two different systems.
The first one sounds better. I plan to test for PC ->HiFace->DC1->DAC next month. We'll see if it can come close to TP.