DVD Player Recommendations Please

Posted by: John on 02 March 2003

I'm lookng at jumping into the home theatre idea and would some suggestions on what DVD players I should consider. I plan to use a projector (Maybe Sony lowest price model) and run the sound through my Naim system 52/135/NBLs. At this point I'm only considering a sterio for the audio as a centre speaker won't work well between my NBLs and I can't accomodate rear speakers.

How far has the DVD technology come along? Are there big differences between a the budget line, mid line and high end?

Any help is appreciated.

John
Posted on: 02 March 2003 by Chris Bell
John,

The best value in DVD players is still the Sony 9000ES. Now discontinued, it can easily be found on e-bay and some retailers still have stock. I tested a bunch of dvd players, including the fancy Denon with all of the special chips. They all were noisy, so don't believe the hype. Go progressive if you can, and use the component output into your prjector...it's the next best thing until HD DVD's next year (at least in the US).

Chris Bell

PS There are rumors of a Naim DVD player.
Posted on: 03 March 2003 by gusi
John,

I got a book called "DVD demystified 2nd ed" last week. It clearly explains all the technology without all the maths you find in most TV text books. It goes into quite a lot of detail. If you want to know more about all the concepts it is a great place to start.

With DVD's there is not only output quality but also input tolerance to consider. I own 3 dvd players (4 if you count the computer) and the most recent ones are much more tolerant of scratched disks and home burns. All mine are budget end machines.

If you decide to go the projector route look for something that can do digital video out. The image is stored digitally and the projector is digital as well so it should not be necessary to convert to analog.
Not sure if any players have a digital video out.


As Chris mentioned progressive makes a huge diffrence too. But make sure your projector can handle progressive as well.

cheers
Gus
Posted on: 03 March 2003 by Brad
John,
Buy the Harman/Kardon DVD25 a resonable cheep dvd-player with everything you need. As Chris and Gus mentioned PROGRESSIVE SCAN on component is crucial thats where you should be focusing! And that the projector works well with prog. check out Panasonic PTA-E100, (or bigger brother PTA-E200) the pana. is a great value proj. but with prog. its brilliant! much better than the sony hs-1 or the nec vt-45.
good luck
Brad
Posted on: 03 March 2003 by Phil Sparks
The current received wisdom on most of the AV forums is that if you've got a projector then for absolutely the best quality you need to be playing the DVD on your PC. You can then set the output to exactly the same dot-for-dot resulution as your projector and the pc sorts out all the scaling between the native DVD res and the projector. Even better if the interface between the PC and the projector is Dgital (DVI) then the info never goes into and back out of the digital domain. There are some suprisingly modest spec PCs being used - so you don't need a 3GHz, water cooled jobbie to do the business.

Phil
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Eric Barry
Is there any point to progressive scan for someone with a regular 20" (not flat screen or anything) Panasonic which will be used until it breaks, hopefully many many years?

--Eric

[This message was edited by Eric Barry on TUESDAY 04 March 2003 at 15:10.]
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Chris Bell
Eric,

Regardless of size, you need a tv with a progressive input. I find it funny that sales people are pushing progressive DVD players as a must, when most new tv sets are unable to display a progressive signal.

With a standard interlaced tv, you're best to use the s-video connection. Short of component/progressive, s-video will deliver the best picture.
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Chris Bell
Blue Laser it here!

http://www.avland.co.uk/sony/bdzs77/index.htm
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Johns Naim
John,

As Chris mentions, I would also second a Sony DVD player, and agree with his comments re the 9000ES. But then I would, as I own one.. Wink

The top 'mainstream' brands would most likely include Toshiba, Sony, Pioneer, and in the UK Arcam, and Meridian if you have lots of $$.

As Chris suggests, one needs to audition and pick the player that most suits YOU.

For me, the most balanced performer overall, for picture, and sound on movies, was the Sony. I did not audition Meridian, as it was more than I was prepared to pay, but did audition the others (top models).

The 9000ES has been superseded by the 999ES, which offers improved video DACS, and multi-channel SACD surround sound capability.

An American review placed it ahead of the Arcam FMJDVD27, in picture performance, and at less cost to boot.

In my experience, I've found the top Sony equipment to be beautifully made and finished, a pleasure to use and live with, and very much up on the top tier re performance, excluding high end cost no object exotica etc.

As usual, YMMV, but I would suggest that Pioneer, Sony, and Toshiba would be a good place to start re having some demo's.

Good Luck,

John... Smile

Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by John G.
"The best value in DVD players is still the Sony 9000ES" Chris Bell

Have you heard the Rotel DVD-1080 retailed for $1,500 now selling for $1,000, soon to be discontinued? Knowing how Rotel matches up against Sony, I would think the Rotel would have the upper hand. I'm using one and it sounds pretty good for DVD's DVD-A as well as CD's.


Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Chris Bell
The Sony 9000 is one of those rare japanese produts that really hits the mark. One reason I think it is so superior is its large power supply (where have I seen this before?). I tried to explain this to some dope at a video store and I got a long blank stare followed by a pitch for a Monster Cable power conditioner...it didn't bother to explain why I hate power conditioners and cut bait.

I have not had a chance to see the Rotel. My local Naim dealer sells Arcam and has good things to say about their player. Can't see myself buying another DVD player untill HD DVDs are a reality...2 years? OK, maybe i'll consider the Naim, but once you have seen HDTV, you never want to look back.
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by ReTrO
I'd go for a new Arcam DV27 (£1,600), or maybe wait until the DVD-A version is available. For the money there is not a better sound player on the market. I'm sure Gordon will agree. Smile

Richard Wilson
Student and Freelance Installer
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Brad
Cris
S-VHS is hardly the best pic.solution most TV sets under 5years have RGB compability via scart and will in 99.9999% of the cases benefit from the use of RGB. The use of progressive and component is mostly for the plasma and proj. users. And if John wants a reasonable cheap proj. he is most likely to get the best result by buying a dvd player with progressive. if you were to buy a better proj. nec ht100 or so you should check out the 596 meridian or the dv88+ Arcam.
brad
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Bananahead
I am very happy with my Arcam DV88 and the new DV88+ has the progressive stuff as well. And it is multi region out of the box.

Just go to you local dealer and borrow one for the weekend.



Nana
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by matthewr
"most TV sets under 5years have RGB compability via scart and will in 99.9999% of the cases benefit from the use of RGB"

Not in North America they don't -- SCART is an EU only thing.

US TVs might have Component RGB via separate phonos or BNCs though which should be better than S-VHS.

"The use of progressive and component is mostly for the plasma and proj. users"

Component and progressive is starting to get more common and most new DVD players and better TVs have it. My £120 Toshiba DVD player and my Toshiba TV are connected via YUV. Not sure if its progressive or not (Does YUV imply progresssive scan?)

Matthew
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Not For Me
YUV is component video

Progressive scan is the new big thing. Unless you have a spanky new TV and new DVD, you don't have it.

My vote goes to the Arcam DV88. Good enough for me.

DS
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Chris Bell
Brad,

I am speaking from a N. American standpoint where most new tv's still don't have component inputs...although it is becomming more common. And yes, component is much better than s-video.
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Brad
"most TV sets under 5years have RGB compability via scart and will in 99.9999% of the cases benefit from the use of RGB"

I apologize for my lack of intercontinental av-standard knowledge. But i must disagree! The fact remains if you own a conventional tv-set most likely to be between 14-36" size (i.e not plasma or back-proj) the gain of progressive isn't remarkable and doesn't exeed the use of a great non-progressive dvd. but if you are thinking of buying a "cheap" proj. the gain of using a progressive dvd may well exeed the gain of using a really good dvd-player (excluding the dv88+ most progressive players are either cheep-shit or expensive as hell.) However if john is going to use the dvd as a source for other than dvd use primarily he should consider arcam dv88+ and meridian 596 as they both are uppgradeable.

Brad
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by gusi
FWIW: my approach with all this new technology is to spend more on software and less on hardware until the technology matures

eg I bought a new ukp100 dvd player each year since 2000. They have been improving heaps and I now have all the features that would have cost 500+ a few years ago.

The kids are happy with a steady trickle of hand me downs and I won't be too upset when I have to buy a new machine with dvd-a,sacd, progressive out, dig video out and what ever else is coming.

Meanwhile I have been able to work on the software collection and have plenty to watch on the new toys.

I used the same approach with CD in 89. I bought a budget CD player and 100 CDs. Then I steadily upgraded the player through several rotels to the cdx.

cheers
Gus
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Johns Naim
As to the choice of say a 'mainstream' Japanese DVD player, or the likes of the Arcam, it depends on what you want it for IMHO.

If it is to be a dual purpose machine/usuage, ie DVD/movie, and CD/music use, then I would recommend the Arcam DVD 88, or the 88+ (although I haven't auditioned this latest update to the 88) as it is probably the best compromise solution going re an excellent picture, movie and CD sound out of one 'box'.

However, should you already have a top level CD player, Naim etc, and simply want the DVD for movie use, then in picture terms, the Sony and Toshiba will comfortably outperform the Arcam.

Movie sound is a bit of a mixed bag, with the Arcam having more prescence in the midband, but the Sony/Toshiba having more overall detail, and a much larger sense of scale in the sound, along with a much greater sense of weight in the bass.

The Arcam has a very 'polite' sound for movies IMHO, which some may well prefer, depending upon whether you like your movie reproduced as if in a small room, or a large theatre as presented by the Sony's and Toshibas etc.

However, for CD/music, I would prefer the Arcam, as it has better Prat, and a smoother, warmer presentation. Of course, YMMV, hence it's always important to listen for oneself to find what suits YOU.

I'm currently very impressed with some of the 'mainstream' Japanese products, both in terms of value for money, and performance.

Stepping aside from any real, or imagined biases as to where equipment is made, or social perceptions of class/quality, etc they generally appear to hold their own very well in the market place.

As usual, sometimes products simply excel, regardless of manufacturing origin, or should I say origins plural, as so many products these days are best described as assembled somewhere, as the parts are all part of global manufacture, only the final 'recipe' providing a lot of difference from one to the other.

As an example, although one should never go by magazine reviews other than as a short list re evaluation purposes - always audition and trust your own ears - a respected American journal placed the Sony TAE processor second only to it's reference, AND ahead of the likes of Tag, Meridian, and Lexicon etc.

Not all that glitters is gold, and not all exotica wipe the floor of the more 'mass produced' mainstream, and sometimes so called pieces of exotica are shoddily made, trading on their sound, perceptions of mystique, and at times myth.

Good luck

John... Wink

Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by Arthur Bye
John:

I've got a Sony 9000ES DVD player and it works great. I've also got a cheapo $100 Panasonic DVD player and it also works great. Is there a difference? yes, but not very much on a standard fare TV. If you don't have composite video input or S-video input on your TV just get a cheapo DVD player and wait around for prices to drop in a year or so on the HD/Plasma/TFT monitors.

As for the sound quality it basically sucks on DVD. Production values weigh heavily on crash! and boom!, forget music.

For CD playback it's about the same as any low end CD player. Listenable but with a lot of flaws.

Arthur Bye
Posted on: 04 March 2003 by John
Thanks everyone for the input. Alot of very good information to consider. Home theatre isn't very important to me but I think I would enjoy the projector experience with the audio coming through my NBLs.

Manu gave me the idea of using a projector TV on the wall behind my NBLs as the space between the speakers is dead space. I think I need to make a decision on the projector first and then insist on home demos of the DVD machines. I'm very happy to hear the budget DVD players can be adequate and I will check out the Sony player many are suggesting.

John
Posted on: 05 March 2003 by John G.
"As for the sound quality it basically sucks on DVD. Production values weigh heavily on crash! and boom!, forget music."

I disagree, I have over 30 concert DVD's that I enjoy as much as my LP12 system. I agree that most Japanese DVD players probably don't do music.
Posted on: 05 March 2003 by Arthur Bye
John Gilleran wrote:

"I disagree, I have over 30 concert DVD's that I enjoy as much as my LP12 system. I agree that most Japanese DVD players probably don't do music."

John: Perhaps your are correct here. I have not tried any concert DVD's. I was so disappointed by regular DVD's that I never looked any further. Most of the stuff out there is pretty dreadful. The format certianly is capable of decent playback it's just that I have not experienced any. I'll guess I'll have to check it out.

Arthur Bye
Posted on: 05 March 2003 by Bob Shedlock
NO to Sony DVD players. I've owned several (hint, they die quickly) Sony is miserable to deal with when the things break. (there is presently a class action suit massing against them for a known defect in one series of players and Sony essentially ignores customer complaints.)

Owned several "hind-end" players, Sony, Elite, etc. Found them all to be only marginally better than budget in a normal home environment AND all of them were amazingly lacking for music only play back.

Buy a the least expensive one you like and wait out the market.

Presently watching an Integra.