Kimber 4 TC speaker cable

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Just give me a good reason to buy Naca 5 instead of Kimber 4TC

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A5 works.

Tony.

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but my dealer tell me that first I´ve to change my source and just then buy the speaker cable!

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Baptist Nun. Your dealer is partially correct - buy the source first. What he's missed out is that you should buy Naim NACA5 speaker cable at the same time. Don't go near the kimber.

Cables are NOT tone controls.

There, that should make it nice and clear.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

additionally, you should buy the NACA5 NOW!

Ditch that silver bollocks as soon as you can - has no place on the end of a Naim amp.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Hello Nuno,

A few weeks ago me and another HiFibuddy compared naca5 with Kimber 4TC (is that the blue/black twisted cable?) at his place on a Nait-2.
(later also on my CDX,Nait-2,Kan system.)

We both prefered the....(eek,don't hit me )
Kimber!

At this moment I'm using a very cheap (2,7 UKP) cable.
It's a homemade cable from my Naim dealer in Holland.
It blew away every other cable I used at the end of my Naim,including naca5 and expensive Transparent "the Wave".

But....the safest bet would probably be Naca5.
(also the stiffiest)

regards,
Alco

Hi Nuno

If my memory serves me correctly the Kimber 4TC is a low inductance cable. Naim power amps like a cable with a higher inductance than the Kimber offers, as this forms part of the output stage and ensures amplifier stability.

I have never been able to de-stablise a Naim amp and I have used all sorts of cables and loads but be aware that the amp may or may not like the Kimber. (I have seen a Rotel power amp go up in smoke when used with Kimber 8TC.) With the NACA5 you should never have a problem and it has definately been the best sounding cable I have tried in my system, bar none.

My 2p worth.

Peter

Hi Nuno !

Let's make some things clearer.
Rico said that cables are not tone controls.
That is wrong. Cables SHOULDNT be tone controls, and every cable and component are somehow tone control or even a filter. Some said that cables are not even a component.
I have had a Kimber 8TC for over a 7 years with my Nait2/Epos12 and found it much more better than rough sounding Naca5. But there is a one very important thing and it is about electricity match between Naim amp and Naim cable. I mean, Kimber is better in resolution and much more things, but Naca5 have very good balanced sound without loose of focus and that is because electricity match. Even with this quality of Naca 5 I will chose Kimber. Now I use Straight Wire Maestro which is miles better of not even Kimber 4TC or 8Tc, but the whole expensive Select series.
Maestro just sings, beautifully sings, fantastic resolution, perfectly balanced sound, f.....g musical and liquid with unbelievable center. That was a cable of my life. It is expensive than Kimber 4 or 8TC, but it worth every penny. Don't even think about to miss a listening test if you can. And don't worry about conservative idiots which said that Naim works only with Naca5. Yes, it works better than 80-90% cables, but what is with that 10%?! Did you know that PC IDE cable work much better than Naca5? Don't use more than 2 m, because you can say good bye to your amp.
It is widely known that NACA5 work good with all Naim gear, but you must have near best Naim source and pre to force Naca5 to establish a good behaviour. Don't take me wrong, I like almost all what Naim makes over everything, but I am 100% shure that Intro2, Credo, 92, 90 and Nait3 are very dissapointed products and noone can tells me they are good. In similar category I can put the Naca5 but very conditionaly. It can sounds good in some systems, but not best of all cables in world even with a whole Naim system. C'mon people, open your eyes, turn around you and see how big is world. On other hand, I understand why people in this forum "vote" for Naca5, Chord, QED or something like that. Because it sells in the UK like salad and dealers have a lot full of that "industry" cables in stock.
Nuno, you should believe to your ears.
Remember, Maestro. When you listened to it, write me a word.
Ozren

errrr, gee Ozren, why don't you tell it the way you see it?

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Rico said that cables are not tone controls.
That is wrong.

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If you'd prefer a clarification: "cables should not be employed as tone controls".

If you are pissing around with other cables (eg not NACA5), especially the types that put your system at risk... you are most likely barking up one of the following two trees:

• The "oops, I missed the music" tree.
• The "oh dear, I'm trying to make amenz for what's going on further up the chain" tree.

As for listening notes? Mate, been there, done that. Kimber, Chord, Solid Core power cable, Monster, Audioquest.... blah blah blah... yes perhaps more "shimmering highs" etc etc, but IMVHO only NACA5 gets out of the way of the music.

I respectfully suggest that you are listening for totally different things - and trust you are indeed enjoying them. "SEST LAH VAI" as we say down under. Meantime I'll stick with that NASTY fuzzy guitar on The Hives "your new favoutite band" and the propulsive drum kit (complete with snare drum!) on Combat Rock.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Rico, I understand that you maybe like a lot your Naca5, but you don't have to be so unwelcome and enemy behavied aginst me. As I said, Naca5 do fine in some occasions, not all, like any other cable. It is catastrophic to say that Naca5 is best cable in world, no it is, because I was heard better and not just me, there is many people here which are too. Your problem is that you are not heard a lot of cables with Naim amps and the main thing is that you understand whole world in your own microcosmos. I will be ashamed if I'd say that "x" cable is not better than "y" cable with Naim if I wasn't heard it. Sorry, but you doing just that. I just try to help Nuno with cable and don't want to be agressive to anyone else including you even with your stupid examples.
Good luck.

Ozren

Nuno.

Here's one reason to use A5:

If you use cable that doesn't meet Naim's specifications, YOU VOID THE WARRANTY.

On another note, if you want to spend time mixing and matching components and CABLE like an audiophile anorak, the Naim approach probably is not for you. With Naim, you sit back and listen to music...until the music makes you get up and move.

Why spend a couple of hundred on cable when that will delay wht you really want (and what will make a major difference) - the CD5? Besides, 9 years ago, an LP12/Valhalla/Akito/Shure V15 - 62/140 - NACA4 (not 5) gave a more holistic view of the music than biwired 8TC did. I really wish I had my money back on the 8TC.

Regards.

Phil

RICO :
As for listening notes? Mate, been there, done that. Kimber, Chord, Solid Core power cable, Monster, Audioquest.... blah blah blah... yes perhaps more "shimmering highs" etc etc, but IMVHO only NACA5 gets out of the way of the music.

OK Rico I understand what you mean,BTW we discuss this in other review !Yes I want to listen real music,not go for a round earth sound,searching "shimmering highs" etc.
I´ve got a VDH CS that I can change for a NACA 5 !BTW this Qued Silver are better than the VDH but I appreciate other sugestions of the menbers!I will take care

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It is catastrophic to say that Naca5 is best cable in world, no it is, because I was heard better and not just me, there is many people here which are too.

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Well! I'm pleased to have avoided catastrophy - I have never said NACA5 is the BEST cable in the world. I have said (many times, I'm sure you're all bored with it by now) that it's best in NAIM systems. Happy now?

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Your problem is that you are not heard a lot of cables with Naim amps and the main thing is that you understand whole world in your own microcosmos.

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Sorry Ozren - you are wrong. I have listened to many, many cables, with Naim and other amps. My microcosmos? Oh dear, I shall not respond further to that. Oh, and I have a problem? Ok, I'll get that seen to.

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I will be ashamed if I'd say that "x" cable is not better than "y" cable with Naim if I wasn't heard it. Sorry, but you doing just that.

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Wrong again Ozren , wrong again. I suggest you ask what I've heard before making such bold stabs in the dark.

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I just try to help Nuno with cable and don't want to be agressive to anyone else including you even with your stupid examples.

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Thanks! I'd be a little concerned to see you in an aggressive mood! My stupid examples? <shrugs shoulders, raises eyes skywards> Oh brother, I am beginning to understand why there is war in this world. I will be only too pleased to agree to disagree with you on this one, Ozren, and will choose to ignore your personal jibes.

Have I logged in to "Friday Arvo on the Mana forum" instead? Best bite my tongue in future.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio [South of Bulls, further south of Taupo]- taking a beasting in good spirits.

Nuno said:

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BTW this Qued Silver are better than the VDH

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Ok, pleased you know what you like. You're comparing soccer balls with rugby balls, and the game you want to play is tennis.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Rico:
BTW Qued Silver is better than VDH CS -122

Ok, pleased you know what you like. You're comparing soccer balls with rugby balls, and the game you want to play is tennis.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Rico , it´s not what i like!I´ve listen both cables in my sistem!and Qued got a midrange so better! and my dealer has the same opinion as me!

"I am 100% shure that Intro2, Credo, 92, 90 and Nait3 are very dissapointed products and noone can tells me they are good. "

This is almost not worth the response, but you are simply wrong. This kit sounds good (or is the right phrase cracking?)

"Rico , it´s not what i like!I´ve listen both cables in my sistem!and Qued got a midrange so better! and my dealer has the same opinion as me!"

The "midrange" is not so important as how the whole musical performance (that which may take place across a much wider frequency range within audible limits) hangs together both in time and in tune.

As for your dealer, is this not a case of the tail wagging the dog?

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on FRIDAY 24 May 2002 at 05:43.]

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and my dealer has the same opinion as me!

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Am I getting trolled here?

Nuno

what has your agreement with your dealer got to do with it? Steve rightly points out that the Music that should be judged, rather than one aspect of hifi reproduction.

I guess you missed my metaphor. Comparing the sounds of cables against each other in order to balance other shortcomings in your system is pointless. The "game" is listening to music. Your game appears to be listening to hifi. The folks here are giving you advice at your request that steers you in the direction of the music. That's why I'm not arguing with you. If you like Kimber, go buy it! I've heard it and reckon it robs my system of the music.

In the mean time, I revert to my previous advice: get the SOURCE sorted, and buy NACA5 at the same time. Then come back and ask how you can fix whats wrong with your system. If they (the CD5 and NACA5) don't work, your dealer is duty-bound to either sort out your system to your satisfaction, or refund your money. Simple, really. Simple problem, simple fix, simple advice. We make it so easy for you.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Hi bec143 !

9X series is made because Naim dealers want it.
Naim made it so so. Nait 2 work better than Nait 3 and there is just a little difference between Nait 3 and 92/90.
If you are on low budget, there is Nait2 which is designed by Guy Lamotte with legendary Holden & Fisher transformer which are in 140 too.
"slimline" series is really nothing special, especially with your Vienna Acoustics.

Ozren

Nuno !

I would like to tell you something.
It is evidently that there is a few people here which takes me wrong. It is also shure that they spit and blame everyone who tells something wrong about (for example) NACA5. I am not spitting on anyone who have some component at home for which I think that is not good. The best component for you (inc. cables) is component which you like more than other one, even if it's cheaper or something. The best component is component which allowed you to enjoy in music most.
Trust to your ears and not to frustrated guys which means that speed of sound is most important.
Most important is synergy, and on other side, what you like most.
I was driven my speakers with Nait2/8TC for over 7 years and nothing happened. Remember, any audio cable which you can buy will never blow your amp.
That was a story for little children. Naim said that warranty is off if you do so. Yes it is, but that is only a commercial trick, just to buy they cables. But, one is shure Naca 5 will work fine. But there is sooo many other cables which are electricaly similar to Naca 5 and designed to be quiter and sound cary. We can speak a lot about that, but don't be blind and trust everything to people. Listen, listen man. I have really nothing of that what I say here. I just want to opened you a new horizon. If you can, try Straight Wire Maestro, you don't have to buy it, but try.
That's for now.

Good luck and be careful, NACA 5 is not the end of the world.

Ozren

Ozren wrote: "Naim said that warranty is off if you do so. Yes it is, but that is only a commercial trick, just to buy they cables"

Well, yes, Naim is a commercial institution, and they have a goal of making money. But I doubt that they aim to make money on wire.

The manuals I have (received with 62/ 72/ 82/ 140/ 250) all give the specifications of the wire. They recommend NACA5, but they will honor the warranty with any wire that meets those specs. (They'll probably honor the warranty with any wire, but they're not obligated to do so.)

I suspect that numerous denizens of these woods could devise wire that will damage Naim amps.

The 3 series is not the best in Naim's line. It is, however, better than much, if not most, of stuff out there. Yes, dealers want something that says Naim at as low a price as they can get it. The 3 series' market success, however, is most probably due to the its perceived superiority to its competition.

I personally like the 92 a lot but don't like the Nait 3 or NAP 90. (This may be because I started with a 140.) But I doubt that Naim designed and built the line as a cynical plot against gullible music lovers.

Regards.

Phil

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Ozren wrote: "Naim said that warranty is off if you do so. Yes it is, but that is only a commercial trick, just to buy they cables"

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Phil worte: "Well, yes, Naim is a commercial institution, and they have a goal of making money. But I doubt that they aim to make money on wire".

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Ozren, with your totally cynical mistrust of Naim, I am surprised you trust them enough to actually run any of their equipment (or even their designs ).

Phil, I agree. Hell, if Naim were actually looking to make money on "cables", SNAICs would be an extra-cost item, or even the grey's would have stayed standard, and the Blacks would have been an upgrade item at (say) £200 per shot. Oh, and NACA5 would be £20/metre, and a multicoloured (uglier the better) "high end" version called knacker06 would be £50/metre.

I suppose the acid test would be to politely ask Naim for comment on whether or not anoyone is using a new developmental speaker cable that may(or may not) replace NACA5 in the future? After all, that is where (at least historically) many of Naim's new products have begun.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

I owned a lot of hifi before I got slim line series stuff, and it is special.

It introduces you to what music can sound like.

Twat.

well I´m going to print all this reviews and take a look at all!
Rico,maybe you are rigth, the path way is to listen music not listen hi-fi!otherwise I will be like another anorack and I don´t want this,change equipment all the time!of corse I like music,this give me pleasure but has limits likehings in our life!Well you know, with all the magazines I read sometimes I forget this and I start to worry with brands ,marketing and so on!I will follow your and the others menbers advice!I´m curious about Naca5 cables and they are not very expensive so let´s see the improvement in my sistem!I will make some notes when I change the cables ,compare the perfomance of NACA 5 with Qued cables wich are playing very well in my sistem,BTW

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Originally posted by JeremyT:
I have tinkered with power cables, vibrapods, ringmat etc but the real difference has been made by the DNM Reson cable (4 metres). Suddenly the conflict with the B&Ws dissappeared. The principle of the cable is the same as NAC (low-capacitance) but the execution is much calmer.

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Jeremy,

Very interested about your remarks about the DNM, I have CDM1 Se speakers, I'm currently using NACA5 and my system is broadly similiar to yours, Nait 5 + HiCap. I've found that Vibrapods make the system sound bigger, but looser, i.e. rhythmic coherence suffers. I've also found that The Campaign Audio Design mains cable 'conquerer~mi' on the power amp side of the Nait gives all the rhythm and less background noise to the music, makes it more solid, tangible.

Could you expand on why you liked the DNM over the NACA5 ?

Peter

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Looks awful though

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...and if you think the cable looks bad, you should see the amps

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

As you know I had N805s for a year or so. Adding DNM cable made the treble less harsh and the bass less porty relative to NACA5. Its the same price as Naim's cable and an excellent tuning device for B&W speakers. It is quite safe to use with Naim amps (my 250 actually ran cooler with DNM than it did with NACA5). I urge you to try it.

Alex