Clay Pigeon Shooting

Posted by: i am simon 2 on 24 January 2006

I am in the process of taking up this sport; my intention is to start with English Sporting, maybe do a little game shooting if I get invited (although I have not decided if I could actualy shoot living things yet).

I have been through the process of getting the appropriate licences, joining the correct organisations and I am thinking of purchising the appropriate double barreled implement in the very near future.

I do not recal any discussions on this forum about this sport, but I imagine some of you must partake.

I have a number of questions to tender to the forum shoulsd any of you have experiance in this field.

Simon
Posted on: 24 January 2006 by Bob McC
Parry likes killing things. Cats I seem to remember.
Posted on: 24 January 2006 by Spock
Simon

There is no point in shooting living things just to get an invite to posh parties imo.

I've done some clay pigeon shooting and that is more than enough fun if you go to a decent club with good facilities.

Spock
Posted on: 24 January 2006 by Happy Chick
My Dad used to take me pellet shooting when i was a kid. The only thing i shot was a hole through the Dobermans ear. Poor thing.

Veronika
Posted on: 24 January 2006 by Roy T
Simon,
I just had a chat with a friend of mine who whilst living in deepest Dorsetshire takes more than a passing in all things to do with the land a rural life.

quote:
Clay pigeon shooting is a different world to that where game is shot, although many people do both. There is a heavy social element in each, you tend to shoot with friends and business acquaintances, pretty much the same as sharing a round of golf. They diverge with respect to the finer points of what you can get out of them; clays can be highly competitive, games shooting can bring you incredibly close to the land - in other words, at their best they touch you in different ways. Some of the most generous and likeable people I know are game shooters, who, paradoxically, do more for animal welfare than most non-shooters realise (if you have an interest in something, you tend to look after it).

Well worth pursuing, but can be expensive.


His last words of advice over the phone are "Take as many lessons as you can afford and have a go at a couple of competitions (with a borrowed gun) to see how good you are before deciding to purchase your own kit.”

Simon if you wish to contact me then email Adam (as we can no longer PM people) and have him pass your details to me via email as I am adverse to posting my contact details on the forum when discussing any hunting, shooting or fishing related topics.
Posted on: 24 January 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Simon,

If you indeed intend to go shooting properly, make sure you don't buy an 'over and under' shotgun, as such a gun will be regard as very bad form out game shooting. I believe that in clay shooting, which I have only done once as it is not nearly so much fun as shooting one's dinner, the 'over and under' is regarded as the proper gun, though a conventional 'side by side' will not be seen as bad form, but merely a statement of your amateur status!

Good hunting from Fredrik
Posted on: 25 January 2006 by Huwge
It can be a lot of fun, game and clays. These days it is only clays as I am a city dweller now and I don't get on with "we're only in it for the money" shoots.

It is very expensive, but then so is Naim gear.

Have as many lessons as you feel necessary, but do have lessons. It is particularly important to learn the etiquette of shooting, be it at a clay or game shoot. Someone I know was blinded by a stray pellet from a gun discharged behind the shooting line by a rank amateur who should not beem allowed to shoot with so litle understanding of shooting & safety.

Think very hard about owning your own gun as it can lead to some very interesting conversations at your local police station.

I learned with a side-by-side and that would be my preference but when shooting clays have always had good success with an under and over.

It hurts. Expect a bruised and sore shoulder the first couple of outings.

Have fun
Posted on: 25 January 2006 by Aiken Drum
Simon,

Here is my experience: I tried clays many years ago using a borrowed "over and under" shotgun. It was immense fun, and I seemed to have a talent for it as I won a 25 clay shoot the third time I used the gun. The hand - eye coordination thing seemed easy at the time.

The friend who introduced me to the sport was forever saying that as a rank amateur I shouldn't have been able to hit clays so consistently as many of the shot were deemed to be "difficult". I would reply that it may be the case, but if I was able to make such shots, I would rather remain ignorant of the difficulty.

Thinking about it, I will qualify my ignorance comment - whilst I was new to clay pigeon shooting, I was already well versed in gun safety, so I was not a danger on the range or in the field.

I gave the sport up early on for two reasons. The first was my friend was put out that a rank amateur in his view, was a better shot than him. As I valued our friendship I dropped the sport.

The secondary reason was that the one time I shot a wood pigeon, it wasn't a clean kill. My friend, being a rugged country type, put the poor thing out of its misery by crushing its head against a tree. I decided that shooting live things was not for me.

Retrospectively I should have kept up the clay pigeon and worked though my friends concerns. Good luck in your new sport.

Brad
Posted on: 25 January 2006 by Jo Sharp
quote:
Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Dear Simon,

If you indeed intend to go shooting properly, make sure you don't buy an 'over and under' shotgun, as such a gun will be regard as very bad form out game shooting.

Good hunting from Fredrik


Not as true now as it used to be. A very senior General I go shooting with uses an over-under. I have both side-by-side and over-under ( a beautiful Beretta 20 bore) and no one on my shoot bothers which I'm using; about 30% of the guns are carrying OUs. In my 25 years of game shooting and deer stalking, I found most sensible people are far more interested in your standards of safety, shooting skill and respect for your quarry rather than what style of gun you carry.
Posted on: 25 January 2006 by Onthlam
Simon-
I love the sport and do it as often as I can.

Skeet,Trap and Sporting clays are huge fun and good to start with. More advanced methods of madness (without killing a living thing)are out there and can make you one hell of a shot.

O/O Or S/S really is preference.Some of the higher end gun makers and custom shops prefer their own type one way or the other. See what you like and get fitted for the gun..This alone will make your time in the sport more fun and thrilling than any other.A fitted gun is a safer gun...
I have seen my share of stupidity...

Email me at closedmail@comcast.net if you would like to chat...

Marc
Posted on: 28 January 2006 by Mick P
Simon

I have been shooting for more years than I care to remember and offer the following advice.

First thing to remember is that clay pigeon shooting will probably account for 99% of your shooting so base your gun on that.

Get yourself a good quality over and under sporting gun that weighs no more than 7lbs max. That weight is light enough to carry around and heavy enough to absorb recoil.

Aim to buy a good make such as Beretta, Miroku or Browning. It will be better to buy a second hand one of these rather than a new el cheapo one.

The reason why side by sides are used on game shoots is that they are a lot easier to carry around. Lugging an over and under around can become a become a bit of a chore after a couple of hours but an O/U is much easier to point and shoot quickly. In an ideal world you would own two guns.

The convention of not using an O/U on a game shoot is fast dying out and English makers now produce them. Ten years ago, their use was frowned upon but today it never mentions a glance, so if you only want one gun, go for the all purpose sporting O/U.

Two caveats........first only buy a gun that feels right. You will know instantly when it does. Smaller guns nearly always feel better that bigger ones.

Also buy good cartidges, you need good patterns to hit a clay and good cartridges give good patterns. Once you have found a good cartridge, stick with it because the ballistic speed is different for each make and you will hit more clays once you have learned to develope your lead. (You always swing the sight of the gun through the clay and then shoot in front of it.)

Finally and this is the most important thing, spend £50 on a good set of lessons, starting from safety through to shooting techniques. Good habits stay but bad habits that are easily learned take age to erradicate.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 30 January 2006 by reductionist
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:

The convention of not using an O/U on a game shoot is fast dying out and English makers now produce them. Ten years ago, their use was frowned upon but today it never mentions a glance, so if you only want one gun, go for the all purpose sporting O/U.

Two caveats........first only buy a gun that feels right. You will know instantly when it does. Smaller guns nearly always feel better that bigger ones.

Also buy good cartidges, you need good patterns to hit a clay and good cartridges give good patterns. Once you have found a good cartridge, stick with it because the ballistic speed is different for each make and you will hit more clays once you have learned to develope your lead. (You always swing the sight of the gun through the clay and then shoot in front of it.)

Finally and this is the most important thing, spend £50 on a good set of lessons, starting from safety through to shooting techniques. Good habits stay but bad habits that are easily learned take age to erradicate.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 30 January 2006 by reductionist
Mick,

Excellent advice.
Posted on: 30 January 2006 by i am simon 2
Many thanks to you all for the advice thus far;

I had the safety aspect drummed into me as a child, as my late father used to do a little bit of shooting and on a couple of occasions I went along to watch/participate.

I have had a couple of lessons over the last month or two, and I borrowed two different guns last weekend, a Beretta 687EELL Field, and a Browning 525 Sporter and shot some clays.

This Beretta is quite a posh model by the sounds of things, but its owner has both 28 and 30 inch barrels, and it was useful to make the comparison. I much preferred the balance and smoother swing of the longer barrels. However I found the gun a little too light and hence less stable during target acquisition, I understand that Field guns are this way as you have to carry them around fields for hours on end.

The Browning 525 was much heavier, being a Sporter model, and it had a higher comb on the stock that seemed to give me a more favourable view down the rib of the gun, and I generally shot better with it, however it has rather minimalist engraving on it.

I have visited a couple of gun dealers and I think I may end up buying a Beretta Silver Pigeon 3, with 30 inch barrels and adjustable chokes. It is very similar in weight, dimensions and feel to the Browning I borrowed but it has nice old fashioned engraving of birds etc on the side, and so should I ever go on a “proper shoot” I will not look too out of place. This gun seems well priced at about one notch above the most basic entry level, and being multi choked it will give me a little more flexibility in what it is used for – sporting trap etc… I would be interested to hear from anyone with experience of this model.


Kind regards

Simon
Posted on: 30 January 2006 by Mick P
Simon

The debate on 28" v 30" barrels is as old as clay pigeon shooting itself.

A 30" set of barrels will make you swing the gun smoother due to the weight and this is useful for lead purposes. A 28" barrelled gun is easier to point quickly and is handy in quick shoot situations.

Which is better.......whatever you feel most comfortable with. Never lose sight of the fact that shooting is about confidence as well as about skill and if you genuinely think that a 30" set of barrels will make you shoot better, then shoot better you will.

You are doing the right thing in buying a quality gun such as the Beretta. I have no knowledge of your particular model but Beretta is an extremely good make.

If the gun is good, stick with it and do not periodically change it as say you would change a car. I use a Mirokou 7000 which I have owned for well over 12 years. It is a good gun just like yours and you will shoot better with an old friend than if you keep chopping and changing.

Finally, you seem keen on wanting to look right at "proper shoots. A gun with a black action is always favoured over a bright shiney silver action as it does not scare the bird or advertise your presence. Having said that, if you prefer the silver action, go for it.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 30 January 2006 by Trevor Bennett
Hi Simon,

I have been clay shooting for about 10 years now,shooting at least once a week,and have found it a great hobby.I totally agree about having lessons,I didn't but wish I had.
I have always had Beretta guns (32" DT10 at the moment)and you won't go far wrong with the Silver Pigeon which holds it's money very well.

Regards

Trevor
Posted on: 31 January 2006 by Ancipital
Have been using a Beretta 391 Urika until I broke it (fixed now) and am currently using a Miroku MK38 30" sporter with Teague chokes.

Admitedlly, I am using it for trap disciplines but it works for me. Hoping to do a bit of Olympic trap this weekend or a bit of sporting on Sunday time allowing as I've been doing a bit too much DTL recently.

I've found the Miroku to be a good gun for the money and found the weighting better than the 382 Gold E I was looking at recently.

Steve.
Posted on: 31 January 2006 by SB
I was quite surpised to see this topic pop up on the Naim forum.

I have been Clay shooting for 15 years. One of the really great aspects of the sport is that it is a real leveller, you meet people from all walks of life. In general most clubs and shooters are really friendly.

Find a good club to join and get some lessons to get the basics under your belt. I have seen far too many people start the sport and blaze away every week, without making any progress, but say that they "can't afford a lesson". Lessons are worth every penny.

One very important point, get some decent ear protection, or all your investment in Naim will be wasted! I would suggest Electronic ear muffs if you can get on with them (I can't)or go for custom moulded ear plugs from a company such as Green Leopard.

As for the game shooting, the best way to get involved is to find your local shoot and offer your services as a beater. Most shoots are crying out for beaters. This will let you experience game shooting close up. You will then get to know the crowd and hopefully get invited as a gun. You will also get a few quid and a brace of bids for your efforts.
Posted on: 31 January 2006 by i am simon 2
Again many thanks for the info, it seems that I am going in a roughly sencible direction, in my approach to this new sport.

I have found a dealer with the gun I want at a good price, it is being sent to my local branch tommorow so I shall have a look. I am concerned that I may not be able to resist buying it without taking more time to try different models. The dealers has a gunsmith on site to check the fit etc, but I am a little unsure of buying without trying as such, albeit I do not think that I can try a new gun and they seem to be difficult to find second hand.

I will report back if anything comes of it.

Simon
Posted on: 01 February 2006 by SB
Don't panic about trying too many models. If your dealer has an expert on site who can check for fit, then that is great. For a first gun, until you can mount the gun consistently, fit is not that critical as long at it is about right for length. You won't go wrong with any Beretta Sporting Gun. If you wany a better idea of what is around in the 2nd hand market, check out www.guntrader.co.uk most dealers are members of this and it holds all of their stock.
Posted on: 01 February 2006 by BigH47
Is there a local gun club that you seek help/advice? Your gunsmith should have details,you may be able to test fire some other examples then.

Howard
Posted on: 02 February 2006 by i am simon 2
Again many thanks for all the hints and tips. I did the deed yesterday and have my new Beretta Silver Pigeon 3. The price they did me was excelent, and the stock is nicely figured for the money.

I spent all of my lunch hour mounting the gun in front of the on site gunsmith, first with one eye closed to get the gun pointing in the correct place, and then with both eyes open to make sure that I can account for having no particular right eye dominance.

It seemed odd at the time, but practising mounting the gun at various differnt angles seemed to prove valuble, and no doubt continued practice will lead to improved consistency and better target acquisition.

Being a shade over 6ft tall I found the stock lenght when fitted with the longer of the two recoil pads supplied with the gun to be spot on, which is handy as nothing needs to be done to the stock at this stage.

I have a couple of lessons booked for the next few weeks so hopefully I can begin to work on the basics.

Kind regards

Simon
Posted on: 07 February 2006 by i am simon 2
Got my first chance to use the Beretta SP3 over the weekend. Had an hour lesson on Saturday and I did a 60 target round of sporting on Sunday morning.

Must say, I am well pleased with the purchase and I had a score of 33 out of 60 which seems reasonable for a beginner like myself. after the first five stands I was on 32 out of 50 which but I accidentally shot the last stand top barrel first and consequently I was trying to get the distant incomer with quarter choke, and the quick close crosser with the half choke, time like this make you realise why some people stick with the same for both barrels. After I realised (when it was too late) I tried one last pair with the switch in the correct place, and hit them both!

The lesson was most useful and I will be having a few more over the coming months.

The coach made the point that there are two aspects to shooting, being "the bit over here” ie gun mount and stance, and "the bit over there" ie breaking clays. He told me not to worry about the bit over there to start with, based on the fact that a good mount and stance are the most vital aspects of the basics, and if you get that wrong from day one, you will never become a good shot.

I have my new regime of 5 minutes of gun mount practice a day with the emphasis on being relaxed, and efficient.

Both on Saturday and Sunday I was at the LVSA in Hertford and I cannot emphasise enough how friendly and helpful both the staff and visitors to are.

If anyone in the area fancy’s a mornings English Sporting, I can recommend it.

Coincidently I bumped into a distant cousin of mine on Sunday morning and he was shooting the Compak Sporting setup, this also looks good fun and I will be trying that out before to long.

Simon
Posted on: 08 February 2006 by Ancipital
So when are we going to set up the Naim forum clay shooting day? Big Grin

Incidently, won a sporting class at JJ's over the weekend which was a surprise to me as haven't done sporting for a few months as I've mostly been shooting trap.

So who's up for it?

Steve.
Posted on: 08 February 2006 by i am simon 2
Steve

Always looking for people to shoot with, as I am just starting out, if you are at the same end of the country as me I would be delighted to organise somthing - email is iamsimon2@mac.com

Kind regards

Simon
Posted on: 08 February 2006 by Ancipital
Simon

I'm not far from that little shopping centre called Bluewater.

My standard discipline at the moment is DTL (my local club is within 5 minutes of home and stables so weekends are normally spent shuttling between horses and shooting).

Shoot sporting when I get the chance. Normally go over to JJ's by Bluewater. They're a small friendly club but have to time it right as on Sunday mornings they are very busy.

My local DTL club is in Horton Kirby and there's a little sporting nearby as well.

There's Dartford but in my opinion the sporting is somewhat lacklustre and perception of clay movement is difficult due to the open nature of the grounds.

Steve.