Settling in with the Nait 2-- question...
Posted by: onlythat on 02 March 2004
So my 'kit' now consists of the stonking (as you say) Nait 2 with a CDX2 and my Ruark CL30's.
The sound is quite wonderful and is quite liveable, i think-- very fast and even tonally right for a change. I feel it only lacks that last little bit of authority for near perfection. (it may get it soon as I am having my mains optimized in a week or so).
Now the question-- I have heard it said that the Nait 2 is only 'bettered' at the level of 72/Hi/140 or so.
What with all the 72's and such littering the used marts at this time, I could go for such a combo or maybe a 72/180 (no hi) or something at a pretty good deal.
Or I could simply add an XPS (older version) at a good deal and keep the little Nait.
Or, of course, do nothing (no fun, boys!-- and girl).
Any opinion on whether it is worth it to consider an amp/pre combo or after the Nait 2 is it really just diminishing returns? I sold my 72/Hi/140 too long ago to recall for comparison, and used them in different rooms with different speakers at the time.
C'mon you guys who went from Nait 2 to 52/135's or whatever--- did you gain that much or do you miss the Nait? Maybe my crazy ride ends here in the town of Naitville with CDX2 as its mayor after all?!
David
The sound is quite wonderful and is quite liveable, i think-- very fast and even tonally right for a change. I feel it only lacks that last little bit of authority for near perfection. (it may get it soon as I am having my mains optimized in a week or so).
Now the question-- I have heard it said that the Nait 2 is only 'bettered' at the level of 72/Hi/140 or so.
What with all the 72's and such littering the used marts at this time, I could go for such a combo or maybe a 72/180 (no hi) or something at a pretty good deal.
Or I could simply add an XPS (older version) at a good deal and keep the little Nait.
Or, of course, do nothing (no fun, boys!-- and girl).
Any opinion on whether it is worth it to consider an amp/pre combo or after the Nait 2 is it really just diminishing returns? I sold my 72/Hi/140 too long ago to recall for comparison, and used them in different rooms with different speakers at the time.
C'mon you guys who went from Nait 2 to 52/135's or whatever--- did you gain that much or do you miss the Nait? Maybe my crazy ride ends here in the town of Naitville with CDX2 as its mayor after all?!
David
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Top Cat
quote:Went from Nait 2 to 82/HI/250 to 52/SC/250 in the space of three months.
C'mon you guys who went from Nait 2 to 52/135's or whatever--- did you gain that much or do you miss the Nait? Maybe my crazy ride ends here in the town of Naitville with CDX2 as its mayor after all?!
Nait->82 was an improvement but there was no more enjoyment, just a bit more of everything - detail, grip, power, bass. Nothing fundamentally was added at this level over the basic Nait (mains is reasonably sorted (4xspurs, dedicated CU), sources are more or less maxed, speakers were the reasonably efficient AP Virgo III).
82->52 was a fundamental change. Much bigger than Nait->82/HI IME. Can't quite say why this should be, but I am trusting my ears on this whole thing. Maybe it's just that the 82 doesn't like just having a single HC or something explicable like that...
Some of you will disagree but I guess that a lot depends on your speakers and whetherthe Nait is in control or whether it is struggling. My Nait 2 had just been recapped.
I could happily live with the Nait 2.
Anyone else care to comment?
John
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by onlythat
Interesting, T.C.-- and I was only talking about going back to like a 72/Hi/180 or something like that.
The Nait certainly didn't like my Harbeths-- not enough oomph-- but it loves the 90db efficient Ruarks I have on dem and this is the reason I've begun questioning.
These are big floorstanders and are capable of lots o' bass-- another reason I think steeping above the Nait might pay dividends. But let me tell you-- this Nait 2 can PUNCH both high and low with these big/efficient floorstanders and it is tempting indeed to save the money.
David
The Nait certainly didn't like my Harbeths-- not enough oomph-- but it loves the 90db efficient Ruarks I have on dem and this is the reason I've begun questioning.
These are big floorstanders and are capable of lots o' bass-- another reason I think steeping above the Nait might pay dividends. But let me tell you-- this Nait 2 can PUNCH both high and low with these big/efficient floorstanders and it is tempting indeed to save the money.
David
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by blythe
I went from a Nait 2 to 72/140 about 15 years ago.
Loved the Nait but the 140 was a better bet when I switched from Kan II's to SBL's.....
I loved the Nait so much, I've just bought a Nait 1!
I also have a Nait 3r and a Nait 5...........
The Nait in any guise is a wonderful piece of kit, but is bettered the higher up the ladder you go.
Remember that the 72/140 will have a positive effect on ALL of your sources.
If you only play CD, this is obviously not an issue......
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Loved the Nait but the 140 was a better bet when I switched from Kan II's to SBL's.....
I loved the Nait so much, I've just bought a Nait 1!
I also have a Nait 3r and a Nait 5...........
The Nait in any guise is a wonderful piece of kit, but is bettered the higher up the ladder you go.
Remember that the 72/140 will have a positive effect on ALL of your sources.
If you only play CD, this is obviously not an issue......
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by trickytree
I'e said it before and i'll say it again, Nait 2's are wonderfull. Theres something about them that lets you forgive (and live with) there foibles and shortcomings.
I think it comes from thinking "Is all this sound coming from that little box".
Even if you do upgrade, dont sell your 2, most people regret it and i'm sure you will to.
Paul.
I think it comes from thinking "Is all this sound coming from that little box".
Even if you do upgrade, dont sell your 2, most people regret it and i'm sure you will to.
Paul.
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Alco
Hi David,
Well, after owning a Nait-2 for a few years I took the step and settled for a 72/180 combo.
(After a few months I went from 72 to 102)
The 72/180 is better than the Nait-2, but imho only in power/drive/grip. So, if you have some easy driven speakers of >90db, I'd say stay with the Nait, of get a s/h XPS.
In my experience the 72/180 was not sounding more open/transparant or more detailed than the little Nait-2.
So, I could happily live with a Nait-2 forever if I had to.
(only bugger is the crappy volomepot, and low level unbalance)
Later I decided to swap my Naim pre-power stuff for a new (slightly modified) Sonneteer Campion.
Btw, a friend of mine also still owns his Nait-2, and a few weeks ago he offered to take it to another HiFi-geek/friend with a megabucks AudioNote system with AudioNote speakers.
Well,... after some warming up and listening to Nils Lofgren's 'Acoustic live' CD album, they both were left in shock!!
They had to confess they both(!) prefered the sound coming from the tiny Nait-2.
(just heard recently that this AudioNote bloke brought his amp to his dealer to do some modifications to it!....again.)
regardsm
Alco
Well, after owning a Nait-2 for a few years I took the step and settled for a 72/180 combo.
(After a few months I went from 72 to 102)
The 72/180 is better than the Nait-2, but imho only in power/drive/grip. So, if you have some easy driven speakers of >90db, I'd say stay with the Nait, of get a s/h XPS.
In my experience the 72/180 was not sounding more open/transparant or more detailed than the little Nait-2.
So, I could happily live with a Nait-2 forever if I had to.
(only bugger is the crappy volomepot, and low level unbalance)
Later I decided to swap my Naim pre-power stuff for a new (slightly modified) Sonneteer Campion.
Btw, a friend of mine also still owns his Nait-2, and a few weeks ago he offered to take it to another HiFi-geek/friend with a megabucks AudioNote system with AudioNote speakers.
Well,... after some warming up and listening to Nils Lofgren's 'Acoustic live' CD album, they both were left in shock!!
They had to confess they both(!) prefered the sound coming from the tiny Nait-2.
(just heard recently that this AudioNote bloke brought his amp to his dealer to do some modifications to it!....again.)
regardsm
Alco
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by onlythat
Ok-- Alco-- so what, just for the heck of it, about the comparison between the Soneteer (not that I'd leave the fold again!) and the Nait 2?
I mean-- I have yet to hear an integrated with the balls/speed and musicality of the Nait-- the Campion's got it?
I mean-- I have yet to hear an integrated with the balls/speed and musicality of the Nait-- the Campion's got it?
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Alco
quote:
I mean-- I have yet to hear an integrated with the balls/speed and musicality of the Nait-- the Campion's got it ?
Yes, it has imho!
I noticed that there are very few brands in HiFi that have the same kinda level of PRaT, speed and musical involvement, that Naim has.
That's way I loved Naim amps, and still do!
But,...I also found out that Sonneteer is on of those very few.
The Sonneteer Campion recently got praised in a review on a populair Dutch HiFi-site (www.hifi.nl) for having the same kinda PRaT, that is so familiar with Naim amps.
(the guy who did the reviews also owns a Naim pre-power amp, although I can't remember which one)
The Nait-2 sounds a little more direct and compact, where as the Sonneteer Campion sounds bigger, deeper, and a tiny bit smoother in the top-end.
(althought withous loss of detail or sparkle)
Nevertheless, I could still live happily with a Nait if I had to.
regards,
Alco
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Alco
quote:
Originally posted by Alco:quote:
I mean-- I have yet to hear an integrated with the balls/speed and musicality of the Nait-- the Campion's got it ?
Yes, it has imho!
I noticed that there are very few brands in HiFi that have the same kinda level of PRaT, speed and musical involvement, that Naim has.
That's way I loved Naim amps, and still do!
But,...I also found out that Sonneteer is one of those very few.
The Sonneteer Campion recently got praised in a review on a populair Dutch HiFi-site (http://www.hifi.nl) for having the same kinda PRaT, that is so familiar with Naim amps.
(the guy who did the reviews also owns a Naim pre-power amp, although I can't remember which one)
The Nait-2 sounds a little more direct and compact, where as the Sonneteer Campion sounds bigger, deeper, and a tiny bit smoother in the top-end.
(althought withous loss of detail or sparkle)
Nevertheless, I could still live happily with a Nait if I had to.
regards,
Alco
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by steve targett
blythe
what about a comparison between a NAIT 2 and NAIT 5?
what about a comparison between a NAIT 2 and NAIT 5?
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by J.N.
Hi David
Be careful!
I've owned a Nait 2 and run SBL's with it. It works by not trying too hard.
By that I mean that it is has a low power output and does not produce prodigious amounts of energy into the room.
Swap to a 72/180 (for example), and you are now pumping a lot more energy into your speakers and room.
It is possible for the wheel to come off - i.e. the system goes out of balance.
It should be better, but life (and room acoustics) ain't that simple.
Good luck.
Be careful!
I've owned a Nait 2 and run SBL's with it. It works by not trying too hard.
By that I mean that it is has a low power output and does not produce prodigious amounts of energy into the room.
Swap to a 72/180 (for example), and you are now pumping a lot more energy into your speakers and room.
It is possible for the wheel to come off - i.e. the system goes out of balance.
It should be better, but life (and room acoustics) ain't that simple.
Good luck.
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Justin
Here's my opinion. It's pure heresy on this forum, so beware.
In my opinion, the Nait2 gives you very close to 100% of the musical goods that are possible in the Olive range (going up to an active 82/250 system). Sure sure, you get "more" when you move up the line. But it's not, in my opinion, really any more "enjoyment". I started with a Nait 2, and each move up was "yea, wow, that IS better. I like that". and then once I'd been through 5 or ten upgrades and had a good $10k in the electronics, I swapped in my nait 2 again. It's enough to make one sick to his stomach.
In my OPINION, in terms of musical enjoyment and just plain fun, the nait 2 (or maybe a 72/hicap/140 combo to avoid the lousy volume pot in the Nait 2, or if you have more difficult speakers) is already the cat's ass.
On the other hand, of your speakers are difficult to drive (or otherwise picky) a 250 is a "qualitative" difference in performance compared to the non-PSU-regulated amplifiers. For instance, thing really DO get qualitatively better when you go from a Nait 2 to a 72/hicap/250 system when driving sbl's, for instance. But when pushing my Spica's (easy to drive), my nait 2 next to an 102/hicap/250 system was, as I said, enough to make one sick.
On the other other hand, if you have easy to drive speakers, the nait 5 IS a qualitatively (and forward direction) different amp from the nait2. This I attribute the the wonderful new amplifier technology (and NOT to the sub-standard 112/nait5 preamp technology).
I'll burn for this, I'm sure.
Judd
In my opinion, the Nait2 gives you very close to 100% of the musical goods that are possible in the Olive range (going up to an active 82/250 system). Sure sure, you get "more" when you move up the line. But it's not, in my opinion, really any more "enjoyment". I started with a Nait 2, and each move up was "yea, wow, that IS better. I like that". and then once I'd been through 5 or ten upgrades and had a good $10k in the electronics, I swapped in my nait 2 again. It's enough to make one sick to his stomach.
In my OPINION, in terms of musical enjoyment and just plain fun, the nait 2 (or maybe a 72/hicap/140 combo to avoid the lousy volume pot in the Nait 2, or if you have more difficult speakers) is already the cat's ass.
On the other hand, of your speakers are difficult to drive (or otherwise picky) a 250 is a "qualitative" difference in performance compared to the non-PSU-regulated amplifiers. For instance, thing really DO get qualitatively better when you go from a Nait 2 to a 72/hicap/250 system when driving sbl's, for instance. But when pushing my Spica's (easy to drive), my nait 2 next to an 102/hicap/250 system was, as I said, enough to make one sick.
On the other other hand, if you have easy to drive speakers, the nait 5 IS a qualitatively (and forward direction) different amp from the nait2. This I attribute the the wonderful new amplifier technology (and NOT to the sub-standard 112/nait5 preamp technology).
I'll burn for this, I'm sure.
Judd
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Edouard
Justin...I came up to the very similar conclusion going up from a nait2 to a 102/hc/180...SO the nait 5 IS a qualitatively different amp from the nait2...and with the wonderful new amplifier technology...the Nait5 would give you very close to 100% of the musical goods that are possible in the new naim range???(going up to an active 282/250mk2 system). Cheers Edouard.
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by musfed
I went from a Nait2 chrome bumper (which I still own and use as a 2nd system) to a 62/140. The latter missing that touch of sweetness and tingle of the Nait but this is, IMHO, compensated by the wider soundstage and fuller body of the combo. I also found out that the 62/140 has much better grip when playing classical music. When things get complicated the Nait loses track (specially when going louder) and the combo makes it work.