Anyone know SACD transport to output PCM via S/PDIF to nDAC

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Can a SACD Player be sorted by someone that knows what they are doing to give SPIDIF OUT?
Question being would it be that hard to do?

If they could they'd get audiopraise indeed - say no more.

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020:
Hi Aleg -

Sounds like a converter manufacturer can stay legal by simply not advertising any target capability beyond 16/48. But if one is determined to capture the high rez PCM for streaming to the DAC, at least the EDID mod can be contained within the converter.

Call me inconsistent, but while I would not want to hack an $899 BDP-83SE to bypass copyright control, I don't feel the same about modding a $169 converter to advertise the true capability of its S/PDIF target.

Look forward to hearing how this turns out for you.

Hook

Hi Hook and all

Today I received my modified EDID and it works .

I now have high-resolution digital audio from my Oppo BDP-83 over SPDIF which has been de-embedded from Oppo's HDMI-output by my Octava HDDA51. I get this from both DVD-Audio and SACD.
From DVD-Audio was no issue really because that is also output over Oppo's own SPDIF. But from SACD was an issue because Oppo converts the DSD-layer into 88.2 kHz PCM but only outputs this over HDMI and this HDMI can normally only be processed by HDMI-capable devices.
The Oppo will of course also process the DSD-layer and output it over its analogue outputs. But I think the Naim DAC (esp. with XPS-2 or higher PSU) far better than Oppo's internal DSD-processor/DAC.

Since the Naim DAC cannot handle HDMI connections I have been looking for other ways of obtaining a SPDIF digital signal from SACDs to have it processed by my Naim DAC. This is were the Octava comes into play.

I bought an Octava HDDA51, which is an HDMI switch (5 input & 1 output) but which also de-embeds the digital audio from the HDMI signal and outputs it over SPDIF TosLink or COAX. Other HDDA-models are also available and I guess they will work the same way, but I have checked.

Now a little bit of theory about HDMI

With the HDMI technology it is such that a source (eg. SACD-player) will only send a signal (audio or video) of a resolution it knows the receiver (TV-set, AV-processor etc) is capable of processing. So it will only send a 192 kHz audio signal if it knows for sure that the receiver will be able to process a 192 kHz audio signal. This exchange of capabilities is done during what is called the HDMI-handshake. If a HDMI-receiver is not capable of processing a high resolution signal or the handshake failed then the source will revert to a low resolution signal.

The Octava HDMI-switches will pass-on any data between connected sources and receivers, and will by default not interfere with the data that is being passed.

This all works fine if you've got two devices that have an HDMI-connection. Our Naim DAC doesn't have an HDMI-connection and many earlier type AV-processors didn't either. Normally this means you cannot receive high-resolution data from the source, even though your receiver device can process it (like our Naim DAC which can go up to 192 kHz over SPDIF), just because the receiver lacks the HDMI-connection.

This is where the special capabilities of the Octava HDDA HDMI-splitters come into play.
The Octava HDDA splitter are provided with an extra set of two chips that can replace the original ones. One chip contains the firmware which has been adapted such that the Octava now does interfere in the information exchange between source and receiver. What it does is that it now returns the capabilities of the non-HDMI device that is attached to the SPDIF coax or toslink.
These capabilities of the non-HDMI device are stored in the second replacement chip, the so called static EDID. The EDID is an industry wide standard for defining audio and video capabilities of consumer devices and is normally inbuilt in the electronics of consumer devices. The Octava HDDA splitter has an exchangable EDID-chip.

The EDID-chip that I received with my Octava HDDA51 was coded in such a way that it didn't (properly) specify the LPCM capabilities as being able to process high resolution audio.

My dealer, that supplies both Octava and Oppo BDP-83, could create an updated EDID chip with the proper LPCM high-resolution definition and now voila: high-resolution SACD output (that is 88.2 kHz LPCM because that is what the Oppo converts the DSD stream to)!!

Now I understand how all this works, I think it should be even possible for those that are also a bit handy in electronics to create update EDID chips themselves.
There are free EDID programs out there available that help you create an EDID-definition binary, which is bl****dy difficult stuff on the video side so you would need a good starting point, but is remarkably easy for the audio side of things. When you also have access to the proper E-EPROM programmer then it is quite easy to program a replacement EDID-chip.

For those that are not so handy, find a proper dealer and explain him what you want and it should be quite easy for him to do. For those looking for a good dealer, I know one who can do it and will ship also internationally.

So if any questions remain, ask them.

-
aleg

Congrats Aleg! Very cool.

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, would appreciate a pointer to your dealer. My email address is in my profile.

Thanks a lot!

Hook

Aleg,
thanks for the update.
Would also appreciate any indications to your dealer. Mail address is in the profile.
Thank you.
PV

The Octava HDDA11 arrived today, and like Aleg has already reported, it works great!

Was pretty cool listening to SACDs converted to 24/192 PCM and played back through the Naim DAC.

Many thanks to Aleg for testing and recommending this converter!

Hook

Yes, sterling work Aleg, many thanks for the info.!