All in a name?

Regards,
Frank.

I'm sure God is big enough to take it on the chin. The worrying thing is that we do tend to worship these things

Next thing, they will be entering someone's Temple of Mana. Between them will lie a phase 7 sacrificial altar, where Cambridge CD4s await ritual humiliation from the higher order.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Johnn

quote:

---

vivo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sits in the range between credo and sbl, full details and pics to follow soon, sorry for the delay but things are a bit hectic right now. Since the intro2 was launched with most of the credo performance it was time to move the design on, so the vivo is more of a credo replacement but really it is much more. (costs quite a bit more too!) stay tuned!

---

of course, name has changed to allae since then.

price i gather about 2K pounds.

enjoy

ken

quote:

---

What ever happened to the prize anyway?

---

They didn't think we were good enough! Hrumph!

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

"aw yeh, theres the new Naim Allaes".

"Wossat - Allae can afford?".

Hmmm. Forgive me taking the piss, but for those who might feel a little "street cred" is appropriate, the name doesnae appear too clever, to start with. At least strange three letter naiming conventions (sorry) are already sufficiently obscure.

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

quote:

---

How come you guys can get so worked up about it.

---

When every other customer asks their dealer to demo those Al..eee...oh-f***-it, it'll sound like some Monty Python sketch.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I think we need to bear in mind that if anyone else produces a new product, the first time we encounter the name is in the manufacturer's own publicity material/ads, where spelling and typography are (hopefully) 100% under the control of the manufacturer concerned. When we see it subsequently, I think the mind makes the link with the "original" and it all makes sense. This is surely the essence of strong branding, theoretically anyway. A lower case "i" after an anonymous car model number would seem pretty unimpressive when announced in web browser text, but as many car manufacturers have found, it's a different story when the "i" is in chrome script on a bootlid. It's only because of this forum that has been any discussion about this at all which IMHO is A Good Thing.

Having said all that, as far as I'm concerned the speaker has always been, and always will be, the "Hybrid Box Loudspeaker". Judging by it's Bristol (Sunday) showing, it's simply far too good to be saddled with a "word" name, being far closer to the SBL / IBL / NBL / DBL end of things than the Intro / Credo. And it has leaf springs...

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

what are "leaf springs"??

enjoy

ken

IMHO if a name needs different typo to be understood, then it's a bad name. Especially since a name is mainly used orally. When you hear the name "allae", your mind doesn't make the link to the latin ending (-o) of Intro. If "allae" is written with capital "A" or without is also not relevant when pronouncing the name. If you consider that all the other Naim products start with a capital (Intro, Flash, Fraim, etc.) it makes no sense to me to have one product which doesn't follow this rule. IMHO "allae" is a misser, it just doesn't sound strong enough and that's not a question of having to get used to it. A name ending on -o or -BL to match with the rest of the range of Naim speakers would have been more logical. Some very good names have been suggested by the Forum members, but I suspect Paul wanted to keep the promised pair of speakers for himself!

Ciao!

Willem

quote:

---

as far as I'm concerned the speaker has always been, and always will be, the "Hybrid Box
Loudspeaker".

---

I thought HBL was so obvious a new name too, which is why I suggested it in the Naim That Frame thread.

I think I can see the logic behind the thinking of the name Allae but personally I don't feel it really suits the product.

To me it sounds Wussy and those speakers are anything but Wussy.

Regards

Pete

[This message was edited by Paul Stephenson on THURSDAY 24 May 2001 at 10:05.]

quote:

---

IMHO if a name needs different typo to be understood, then it's a bad name.

---

P:

quote:

---

I thought HBL was so obvious a new name too, which is why I suggested it in the Naim That Frame thread.

---

Absolutely; I wasn't trying to claim I thought of it first -- just couldn't remember who did! This name is so obvious as to provoke speculation that they have it reserved for another model...

Ken:

To the best of my knowledge, a leaf spring is basically a straight piece of metal which is distorted by the sprung mass, ie whatever it is supporting. Since the metal attempts to remain straight, a spring effect is achieved. The "leaf" can be fixed at one end, and the sprung mass applied to the other, or fixed at both ends, and the sprung mass applied to the centre. The classic application is in vehicle suspension. Next time a truck pulls up next you in traffic, have a look for the (compound) leaf springs on its drive axle, usually just inside the wheels. These are the same, but use multiple leaves to stiffen the spring progressively under compression.

A coil (or more correctly "helical") spring is the thing that goes "sproing" and promptly dissappears when you take a retractable biro apart...

Best;

Mark
(inveterate dismantler of biros)

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

You do like to provoke a response, don't you

quote:

---

If you want to be perceived as a comsumer friendly marketing-led company you give your products names, if you want to be perceived as a serious engineering-led company you give your products numbers.

---

Bang & Olufsen (who must be one of the most marketing led companies) have always used the same numbers for every type of product they build, since their marketing people have decided certain numbers are customer-preferred. Changing them would affect the customers perception and preference for the product.

They add a type number so that the servicing engineer can determine the correct parts, circuit etc.

Come to think of it the Japanese use numbers a lot too, they tend to use names on the high end gear.

I'm sure the pre's and power amps will carry the tradition.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

enjoy

ken

quote:

---

Naim started with numbers and is now moving towards names, what does this tell you?

---

I must admit I hadn't seen this angle. Interesting point!

(Sigh...) I suppose we're back to core values again. Marketing used as a tool the better to communicate core values is fine IMHO, but marketing as a replacement for core values is not. Thing is, Naim Audio's been around long enough to have things like 'traditions" and "internal culture", which you can't buy or manufacture; they have to be built over time, and customers play quite a big part in this, as it's a big part of the percieved value that they're buying.

...and in absolute, end-user centric terms, Jonathan R. is right; the name is only a label, and the perfomance is what gives long-term satisfaction. No problems there, IME.

I wonder if there might be a limited production proudly labelled HBPoV....

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Does a change from numbers to names signal a change in Naim, or it's customers? Putting my customer focused marketing hat on I would say customers.

Jay

quote:

---

why is it a "good thing" to have leaf springs in the hifi context

---

I can't remember which Naim product first used leaf springs, but I am concious of the fact that , over the years, Naim have used some very "lateral" and original engineering design, to excellent effect. Twenty years ago, I suspect that the idea of using a leaf spring in audio equipment would have been thought pretty quirky because of the automotive associations, yet they obviously persevered with it in an uninhibited manner, and made it work. I would imagine that there is now considerable know-how within Naim on the precise behaviour of leaf springs, and how to bend them (blimey...) to a particular purpose. Further, I would put considerable money on the fact that a design for a Naim turntable has at some point existed, and that it used leaf springs. Turning conventional engineering wisdom on its head and producing something simple, elegant and effective (and therein lies beauty, I think) is one the things Naim do best. And better is better.

To quote Phil Ward in the "NBL Story":
"Naim always use leaf springs"

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

I reckon that a leaf sprung turntable would work if the springs where sideways i.e. to give lateral movement after all the modulation in the record grove is in the lateral plain so isolating the turntable vertically ain't much use when you think about it, and if the record and arm both move vertically that shouldn't affect the tracking of the groove (unless it happens fast and the arm leaves the surface of the record) but a sideways vibrations will affect the tracking and would seem to be more important to damp/isolate from the feed back point of view. So lateral leaf springs/dampers like the suspension "blobs" on a Roksan would seem to be one way of making a turntable.

pete

quote:

---

Does a change from numbers to names signal a change in Naim, or it's customers?

---

Another well-made point. However, twenty-ish years ago, if one bought a Naim Audio item, you bought it because it sounded terrific, and that was that.

Nowadays, anyone buying a new Naim amp (for example), having just been introduced to the brand, can look back in time and see a long line of ancestors to the one he bought, each an advance on the one before, and each showing consistent improvements. The hierachy and family tree is quite clear, planned obsolescence and expiring service backup is a non-issue, and his investment is a safe one. Crucially, it also sounds terrific.

I don't disagree with you out of hand, but how would you say the priorities of today's customer differed from those of his aging counterpart (who is probably still upgradeing, BTW) ?

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Right-oh then -- we'll call it the "Parr'ard", get it slung together in China, market it as "the return of one of audio's greatest names" and flog it in Richer Sounds at £63.50, or £99.00 with a gold badge and spikes to match the Kef Maidstones. Rega can do an RB199(p) arm in "high-impact non-resonant resin" or "plastic", and Ortofon can probably find a few crates of OEM carts they've forgotten about...

Quick -- ring Stan Curtis!

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)