What alternatives to LP12?
Posted by: JohnMak on 26 June 2003
I'm going to buy another turntable (I still have about 2000 LP's in storage from 12 years ago) and would like to be able to play them.
It will probably be a secondary source (maybe) as LP's are not available in Vietnam and CD's here cost only USD50cents .... "locally produced of course" (Don't abuse me for buying non originals .... there is no other choice in Vietnam)
What suitable alternatives are there to the venerable Linn LP12 turntable? (which I used to have years ago)
I need one that will "travel well" as I have to carry it to Vietnam where there are no Linn dealers so it needs to be easy enough for me to set up and probably a non-suspended type.
I heard a (1)Scheu Premier (I think that's how it's spelt) the other day in Singapore and although it was a short listen, it seemed pretty impressive - very dynamic sound and looked very easy to set up and not that expensive at SGD4500.
Others that look interesting from Hi Fi comic reviews are:
Michelle Orbe/Gyrodek (I think it is s suspended type though)
Nottingham:
I read a post recently where a forum member had sold an LP12 for a Clearaudio and in turn, sold that and went back to the LP12.
Advice and opinios welcome.
It will probably be a secondary source (maybe) as LP's are not available in Vietnam and CD's here cost only USD50cents .... "locally produced of course" (Don't abuse me for buying non originals .... there is no other choice in Vietnam)
What suitable alternatives are there to the venerable Linn LP12 turntable? (which I used to have years ago)
I need one that will "travel well" as I have to carry it to Vietnam where there are no Linn dealers so it needs to be easy enough for me to set up and probably a non-suspended type.
I heard a (1)Scheu Premier (I think that's how it's spelt) the other day in Singapore and although it was a short listen, it seemed pretty impressive - very dynamic sound and looked very easy to set up and not that expensive at SGD4500.
Others that look interesting from Hi Fi comic reviews are:
Michelle Orbe/Gyrodek (I think it is s suspended type though)
Nottingham:
I read a post recently where a forum member had sold an LP12 for a Clearaudio and in turn, sold that and went back to the LP12.
Advice and opinios welcome.
Posted on: 26 June 2003 by Roy T
John,
I saw this Vinyl Engine - Manufacturers links in another place and I think it is worth a look.
Roy
I saw this Vinyl Engine - Manufacturers links in another place and I think it is worth a look.
Roy
Posted on: 26 June 2003 by Laurie Saunders
I had a Michell Gyrodek/qc/smeV.....upgraded to an Orbe.....Both superb. Advantages over LP12 (I think they sound better) for you is the fact that they are easily user-assembled/disassembled in a few minutes and a doddle to set up.....my friend has an Orbe and has moved house 5 times with it
Laurie S
Laurie S
Posted on: 26 June 2003 by paul99
John,
I can recommend the Michell Orbe.
The combination I use is Orbe, SME V, Ortofon Rohmann.
Completely different to the LP12 (one of which I used for a very short time). The Orbe resembles the LP12 in much the same way that a tank resembles a Mini. Very high quality construction indeed, both turntable and tone-arm.
The arm mechanism is a wonder. Very easy to set up.
The turntable suspension arrangement is simplicity itself to set up.
The sound - outstanding. It appears to have no characteristics itself. Completely neutral, no colouration. If the music requires punch and energy - you get it. If the music is light and delicate - you get that. If the music has intense bass - you get that too. If the music has a wide dynamic range - again no problem.
Completely flawless, or, at least, I can find no fault - none at all, regardless of what I play.
Slight negatives: The bearing takes a while to run in and the clamp takes a little getting used to.
Regards,
Paul.
[This message was edited by paul99 on FRIDAY 27 June 2003 at 07:41.]
I can recommend the Michell Orbe.
The combination I use is Orbe, SME V, Ortofon Rohmann.
Completely different to the LP12 (one of which I used for a very short time). The Orbe resembles the LP12 in much the same way that a tank resembles a Mini. Very high quality construction indeed, both turntable and tone-arm.
The arm mechanism is a wonder. Very easy to set up.
The turntable suspension arrangement is simplicity itself to set up.
The sound - outstanding. It appears to have no characteristics itself. Completely neutral, no colouration. If the music requires punch and energy - you get it. If the music is light and delicate - you get that. If the music has intense bass - you get that too. If the music has a wide dynamic range - again no problem.
Completely flawless, or, at least, I can find no fault - none at all, regardless of what I play.
Slight negatives: The bearing takes a while to run in and the clamp takes a little getting used to.
Regards,
Paul.
[This message was edited by paul99 on FRIDAY 27 June 2003 at 07:41.]
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by JohnMak
Hi guys,
Many thanks for the responses so far. They seem to be pretty much in favour of Michell. (That's good as they appeal to me)
I was a bit aware or the Rega TT's but there are so many models.
I have never heard anything other than Linn LP12 (and loved it - but really don't want another one as they're too damned expensive, don't travel well and too fiddly)
The UK seems to be the mecca for TT's so I really value the opinion of UK TT users. As I mentioned, I heard the Scheu in Singapore and on percussive style demo records it would blow your socks off and it looked so incredibly simple so set up even with it's unipivot arm.
I'm a bit surprised no one from the UK mentions Nottingham TT's as they are British made.
Laurie Saunders and Pau99: Your comments re the Michell are quite reassuring.
Tom Alves: I've seen pictures and reviews os the AVID models in the Hi Fi Comics and they do look beautiful (and have great reviews) but probable nearly double the price I wanted to spend.
This forum is a godsend to me living here in the land that time has forgotten and I must say I really value the considered opinions of UK audiophiles as generally, that is the kind of sound I prefer. (But hot damn .... I am loving these three day old Dynaudio 1.3SE's .... they keep getting better by the hour)
Many thanks for the responses so far. They seem to be pretty much in favour of Michell. (That's good as they appeal to me)
I was a bit aware or the Rega TT's but there are so many models.
I have never heard anything other than Linn LP12 (and loved it - but really don't want another one as they're too damned expensive, don't travel well and too fiddly)
The UK seems to be the mecca for TT's so I really value the opinion of UK TT users. As I mentioned, I heard the Scheu in Singapore and on percussive style demo records it would blow your socks off and it looked so incredibly simple so set up even with it's unipivot arm.
I'm a bit surprised no one from the UK mentions Nottingham TT's as they are British made.
Laurie Saunders and Pau99: Your comments re the Michell are quite reassuring.
Tom Alves: I've seen pictures and reviews os the AVID models in the Hi Fi Comics and they do look beautiful (and have great reviews) but probable nearly double the price I wanted to spend.
This forum is a godsend to me living here in the land that time has forgotten and I must say I really value the considered opinions of UK audiophiles as generally, that is the kind of sound I prefer. (But hot damn .... I am loving these three day old Dynaudio 1.3SE's .... they keep getting better by the hour)
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by JohnMak
Sorry guys, I forgot to mention in my first post there was another possible contender that I couldn't hear in Singapore (all sold out) That was a Wilson Benesch "The Circle". It had a tapered arm made out of one of those Wilson Benesch "not of this world" type materials. (reasonably priced at SGD4,500)
I've never heard Wilson Benecsh anything, but they seem to get good write ups for their "science fiction' materials.
I don't know wether WB is UK or USA?
I've never heard Wilson Benecsh anything, but they seem to get good write ups for their "science fiction' materials.
I don't know wether WB is UK or USA?
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by Simon Matthews
uk
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by blythe
quote:
Originally posted by JohnMak:
Sorry guys, I forgot to mention in my first post there was another possible contender that I couldn't hear in Singapore (all sold out) That was a Wilson Benesch "The Circle". It had a tapered arm made out of one of those Wilson Benesch "not of this world" type materials. (reasonably priced at SGD4,500)
I've never heard Wilson Benecsh anything, but they seem to get good write ups for their "science fiction' materials.
I don't know wether WB is UK or USA?
Yes, they get good write ups for the materials.
I was TOTALLY underwhelmed when I heard WB products. Boring springs to mind.
My SBL's sounded a zillion times better than their ACT speaker which costs about 3 times more than the last SBL's..........
The best bet is to listen for yourself and trust your own ears....
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by Markus S
JohnMak,
the Scheu turntables are from Germany. Check out their site here.
They have a reputation of excellent value for money. I've heard Scheu 'tables on a number of occasions and have always been impressed. My guesss is that a middle-of-the-range Scheu tt would easily outperform the W-B.
Markus
the Scheu turntables are from Germany. Check out their site here.
They have a reputation of excellent value for money. I've heard Scheu 'tables on a number of occasions and have always been impressed. My guesss is that a middle-of-the-range Scheu tt would easily outperform the W-B.
Markus
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by greeny
quote:
The combination I use is Orbe, SME V, Ortofon Rohmann.
The Orbe is undoubtedly a very good TT, but this combination is very expensive. How much are you looking to spend? New or Second Hand?.
If you aren't going to be buying new Vinyl and this is a secondary source you might be as well getting somthing cheaper like a Rega Planer 3 and a mid price MC. You'd be suprised how this would compair with a good CD player.
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by JeremyB
Compared a lot of turntables about 9 months ago and discovered that the SME 10A came out tops especially in a Naim system as it sounds fast and rythmic. Not cheap, but the arm is virtually free and the standard arm sounded better to me (for PRaT) than the V. One of the least fussy TTs and a joy to set up and use. It really responds as you increase the quality of the cartridge which says a lot.
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by Evan D. Jay
Basis with Basis Vector arm.
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by Bob Edwards
John--
TT's that I've heard that play music, sound good, and aren't hard to set up:
Roksan Xerxes X: very good tunefulness, terrific sound, works very well in a Naim system but the power supplies have to be kept on a different spur--they throw A LOT of noise into the AC. Work very well with Rega and SME arms as well as (brilliantly) with the Aro.
Rega P9: Terrific tunefulness, very crisp and dynamic. Works well in Naim system with the same caveat as the Roksan. Works well in a Naim system but can sound a bit "small" in terms of scale.
SME 10: Not quite as lively as a Roxy, Rega, or LP12, but simple to set up and is at once both neutral sounding AND compelling to listen to. A bit on the pricey side, perhaps?
Nottingham: Heard the one that sells for about 7K in the US; can't work up any enthusiasm for it since a cheaper Linn was MUCH more involving. Very good sonics, though.
Best,
Bob
TT's that I've heard that play music, sound good, and aren't hard to set up:
Roksan Xerxes X: very good tunefulness, terrific sound, works very well in a Naim system but the power supplies have to be kept on a different spur--they throw A LOT of noise into the AC. Work very well with Rega and SME arms as well as (brilliantly) with the Aro.
Rega P9: Terrific tunefulness, very crisp and dynamic. Works well in Naim system with the same caveat as the Roksan. Works well in a Naim system but can sound a bit "small" in terms of scale.
SME 10: Not quite as lively as a Roxy, Rega, or LP12, but simple to set up and is at once both neutral sounding AND compelling to listen to. A bit on the pricey side, perhaps?
Nottingham: Heard the one that sells for about 7K in the US; can't work up any enthusiasm for it since a cheaper Linn was MUCH more involving. Very good sonics, though.
Best,
Bob
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by JeremyB
Bob,
I thought your summary was accurate and insightful.
One thing I discovered about the SME 10 was you can get the sound of virtually any other TT simply by cartridge selection - you want it detailed? - get a detailed cartridge. Smooth and warm - get a smooth cartridge. Exciting and lively, a lively cartridge and so on. It's a really neat trick. Of course, it helps if you have the opportunity to try all these different cartridges, and the result can be very disappointing if you get it wrong.
I thought your summary was accurate and insightful.
One thing I discovered about the SME 10 was you can get the sound of virtually any other TT simply by cartridge selection - you want it detailed? - get a detailed cartridge. Smooth and warm - get a smooth cartridge. Exciting and lively, a lively cartridge and so on. It's a really neat trick. Of course, it helps if you have the opportunity to try all these different cartridges, and the result can be very disappointing if you get it wrong.
Posted on: 29 June 2003 by Ulrich Hohn
John,
I would only buy a turntable, with which the assembly of the new Prefix is possible. My knowledge is the Prefix the preamp with the shortest cable from cartridge to preamp. The best cartridges have a very small output voltage. Long cables change here the higher frequencies. Afterwards the best preamp cannot repair the damaged signal.
Ulrich
I would only buy a turntable, with which the assembly of the new Prefix is possible. My knowledge is the Prefix the preamp with the shortest cable from cartridge to preamp. The best cartridges have a very small output voltage. Long cables change here the higher frequencies. Afterwards the best preamp cannot repair the damaged signal.
Ulrich
Posted on: 29 June 2003 by JohnMak
Hi Ulrich,
Can you tell me what the Prefix is???
I have not heard of this before ..... is it a preamp or a cartrige?
Regards,
JohnMak
Can you tell me what the Prefix is???
I have not heard of this before ..... is it a preamp or a cartrige?
Regards,
JohnMak
Posted on: 29 June 2003 by leeto
That probably applies to the original P9. The new P9 has abundance of scale and details.
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Edwards:
John--
Rega P9: Terrific tunefulness, very crisp and dynamic. Works well in Naim system with the same caveat as the Roksan. Works well in a Naim system but can sound a bit "small" in terms of scale.
Bob
Posted on: 29 June 2003 by Ulrich Hohn
>>the top Naim phonostage which is designed to fit inside the LP12 plinth. Undoubtedly very good but there are others,<<
Tom,
I think you mean the old Prefix. Two month before I would agree that there are others. The new Prefix makes a huge improvement over the old phono stage.
Ulrich
Tom,
I think you mean the old Prefix. Two month before I would agree that there are others. The new Prefix makes a huge improvement over the old phono stage.
Ulrich
Posted on: 29 June 2003 by Ulrich Hohn
>>Are you seriously suggesting that the new Prefix is better than any other phonostage regardless of cost.<<
Tom,
I don't know all other phonostages. And I have not the money to buy phonostages which are 15 times more expensive than the Prefix. I have never heard a phonostage which are nearly as good than the new Prefix. In the last 20 years I have visited about 300 life concerts. Every time I have a record with the music of the concert, I have listen to my gear. Last week pleased me
for the first time the hifi music better. The sound was still better in the concert. But the sound of my gear was close to. The interpreters on the record were naturally much better than in life
concert. Altogether the record pleased me therefore better. I consider myself now whether I am further so often visit concerts.
Ulrich
Tom,
I don't know all other phonostages. And I have not the money to buy phonostages which are 15 times more expensive than the Prefix. I have never heard a phonostage which are nearly as good than the new Prefix. In the last 20 years I have visited about 300 life concerts. Every time I have a record with the music of the concert, I have listen to my gear. Last week pleased me
for the first time the hifi music better. The sound was still better in the concert. But the sound of my gear was close to. The interpreters on the record were naturally much better than in life
concert. Altogether the record pleased me therefore better. I consider myself now whether I am further so often visit concerts.
Ulrich