cdx/82/180 ==> cdx2/202/napsc/200 worth it?

So few of us have heard the new stuff that it'll be hard to get a good set of opinions here. You need to listen for yourself anyway.

Having said that, there are lots of upgrades between what you have and what you contemplate - PSUs (XPS, XPS2, hicap, hicap2, s'cap), amps (250), and front ends (LP spinner, CDS2). How's the budget going to hold up?

Regards.

Phil

Phil,

I agree that i can't really find a substantial amount of reviews or user opinions for the new classic lineup. My dealer's only got the 202/200 currently as they've sold out on the cdx2. With a cd5 fronting the setup, it's hard to judge whether how good the cdx2 will sound through it. Although i had the chance to hear the cdx2 before, it was done in a room with really bad acoustics(into non-naim spkrs) coupled with the fact that it was really new then. Much as i would like to hear it, the new shipment will not be arriving at my dealer's so soon. Meanwhile, i'm thinking along the lines of an outlay of about GBP1000-1500. Have you had the chance to listen to the new series?

CDX2 and 200 are, IMO, an upgrade, but keep your 82, there is so much more you can get from it. You will be able to add new hicap(s) later.
And, before making any move go for a demo, listen for yourself.
You can also upgrade step by step, starting with the CDX2, and please, listen to the new 250, each day i am more impress of what it can do.
IMO, the 2 most impressive upgrades from the old to new style are the CDX2 and the 250.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Manu,

Thanks for the information. I think much of the positive attributes that the new 250 gain over the old one would possibly be the use of new 007 output transistors. Essentially, what appears to be the same product in name is actually a totally different beast altogether. I hypothesise that this is the most significant change in the 250 technically since the conception of the old 250 with the 001 transistors almost 20 years ago. That leaves the very big question of whether the new 250 would outperform the 135's. I wonder if the new hi and supercaps are based on a completely reworked design.

According to my dealer, it seems that the new amps are a vast improvement over the old. Although i've not had the chance to listen to the new 250's due to availability, the 200's does offer very credible improvements over the old 180. If the improvements in the new 250 is similar, i would expect it to really rock.

How do you rate the cdx2? Have you tried it in your previous system?

Why do you change you Epos ES22's for Linn Ninka's?!

Bas V,

I'd love to keep the epos 22's in my system. However, due to the humidity in our region, the driver units are breaking down mainly because of the glue that holds the rubber surrounds together. Given the pricing of speakers over here, the ninka makes for the best price/performance ratio. The allaes costs abt twice of ninkas over here. Any advise on a good replacement for the 22's?

Well, I have listened to the Ninka's before and although I do think they sound good, they didn't do it for me. I have to admit, that was with only a Nait5 and CD5 in front of them. What I missed was the real emotion, the thing that makes you sit up and shout along. For me, I had that feeling with my Monitor Audio Studio 2's and with my Intro's. But, the Intro's (although mkII, I have mkI's) I have also heard in the same demo as the Ninka's and they were really bad. In my room they sounded magnificent. So advice is hard to give, you should just try some speakers at home. If I was to buy floorstanders in that price range right now, my list would include at least Linn Ninka's, Neat Elite's, some Monitor Audio's, some Naim's and the new Tannoy Eyris range.

Good luck!

Bas

I had 72/180 plus hicap and moved up to 82 then added a hicap and then to 250. Each step was noticable - I have Es22s as well. As a minimum Id go for the 250 (2nd hand a good buy) then a 2nd hicap.

Jonathan

Alex,
Something was wrong in your demo. Was the new kit well burnt-in (300 hours min). The new stuff is like the old one, during the first 200 hours or so its sound varies, some days it can sound quite ordinary.

For me, for example, the 180 to 200 comparison, is simply from: i don't like it (the 180) to: it really sings (the 200).

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Laxton,

I don't know yet, i must admit i have not open the new boxes. According to what has been said, the new 250 is more than a transistor change: new circuits topology, a hudge transformer etc.
The 200 has nothing to do with a 180. The sound is completly different. IMO, the 200 is not an updated 180, it's a new amp. But the 250 is an updated amp, it retains the same presentation as the old one, but more dynamics, more definition and subtility in the mids (voices) and more authority.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

I completed a dem last night which included the Ninkas, old 180 and a new 200.

I thought the Ninkas were pretty rubbish actually, even prefering a pair of B&Ws (God help us all). I'm not sure about appropriate competition as I run a pair of Kabers and don't really know the middle market that well.

Ref the amps, I found the 200 to be a big step up on the 180, in almost every way, highly recommended.

CDX2 vs. CDX
I recently had 2 demo's to help me decide whether to go with a secondhand CDX or shell out from the new CDX2. IMHO (and it is humble because I am a complete newcomer to hi-end hifi!) the new kit sounded superior to the old. It was far more exciting and seemed to involve me more.
The two systems I heard (at different dealers) were:
1.CDX2/202/200/B&W CM2 speakers
2.CDX/82/Hi-cap/250/JM Labs speakers (not sure which model)

I'm sure plenty of people will disagree, but it's got to be the new kit for me.
Nick

Nick,

If you buy what you like, how will we be able to browbeat you into conforming to our ideology??? How will we draw into furious arguments?

Enjoy your new system anyway. :-)

Best regards.

Phil

Alex and Tom,
I can agree with you regarding the upgrade from 180 to 200. My purpose is just to give comparisons.

But i would upgrade from 52/sc to 252/sc2 if 552 is too much for the wallet.

And Alex, completely agree, the 250 get better each day. My first match with 135s ends even.
250: more body, longer releases
135: faster on attacks, but also faster to fade releases away.
Same level of involvement but with different strengths.
Test was performed with CD3.5/hi, CDS/CDPS, 82, hi, and Credo, Pat Metheney and Patrick Noland
I will do a more extensive test on Saturday with CDX2/252/SL2.


Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

[This message was edited by Manu on SATURDAY 21 December 2002 at 05:49.]

[This message was edited by Manu on SATURDAY 21 December 2002 at 05:50.]

The move from CDX/82/180 to CDX2/202/napsc/200 is a bit of a sidewards movement, sure the new equipment is going to be a little better than your old equipment.

The question is, is the cost of the CDX2/202/napsc/200 worth the improvement in the sound? Only you can decide that.

Surely for the cost of the new kit you could purchase something more cost effective, say a XPS or a Supercap. Neither of these would be a sidewards movement and would both produce significant improvements in your old system.

I do question whether the 202 is an improvement over the 82 and whether the 200 is much of an improvement over the 180. I could understand an upgrade from 82 to 282 and 180 to the new 250 and agree this would be a cost effective upgrade.


Regards

NB

IMO, a hicaped 82 is better than an hicaped 202 + NAPSC on all points except image.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manu:
Alex,
Something was wrong in your demo. Was the new kit well burnt-in (300 hours min). The new stuff is like the old one, during the first 200 hours or so its sound varies, some days it can sound quite ordinary.
.............

---

I just got myself a 202/200. The napsc will be on the way soon. It was to replace my 92/90. there were improvement all over.

However it sounded good out of the box. I really wonder what will happen as it runs in. Anyone else has experience with it?

Give it time silklee, all Naim gear gets better and better the more you use it. We are not just talking weeks here but months. Six years after buying my 82/hi/180 I still get days were I think "wow that just sounds just better and better".

Regards


NB