The Great Al***s

Posted by: Guido Fawkes on 13 April 2007

We are often inundated with programmes on CH4 that do top 100s. Wondered if anybody would like to contribute to a list of truly great albums - no restrictions: if you think it's truly great then it should be in the list. Describing it's content and saying why you think it is truly great would be helpful.
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Ecosse
quote:
after all, is going to put there hand up and dispute that everything issued by The Beatles


me!... yellow submarine...awful, The Long and Winding Road... dreary. Rubber Soul...over-rated. But on the other hand, Help...hugely underrated album, Something...best bass line ever... etc
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by JoeH
quote:
Originally posted by Diode100:
quote:
Originally posted by JoeH:
Top 100 lists tend to favour the bland at the expense of the risky, unless the riskiness is distanced by sufficient time and/or the artist in question has been absorbed by the mainstream.


I don't think the list compliers aim for blandness, I think they take the safe road, who, after all, is going to put there hand up and dispute that everything issued by The Beatles, Dylan, etc., is not worthy of being hailed as 'great'.


I would equate blandness with safety, myself. Otherwise 'Trout Mask Replica' would be at or near the top, and there would be no place for The Eagles. Dylan's 'Self Portrait' is a strong contender for 'worst album ever released by a major artist' and Sgt Pepper is vastly over-rated.
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Ecosse
quote:
I would equate blandness with safety, myself. Otherwise 'Trout Mask Replica' would be at or near the top, and there would be no place for The Eagles. Dylan's 'Self Portrait' is a strong contender for 'worst album ever released by a major artist' and Sgt Pepper is vastly over-rated.


It's pehaps a different thread... top 100 over-rated albums of all time...
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by Malky:
quote:
Originally posted by fred simon:
can we set aside our personal taste and consider the artistic worth of a musical work as a separate issue?

Of course we can, and this means that, unequivocally, Pet Sounds is the pinnacle of Western pop, and anyone who disagrees has cloth ears.


Well call me cloth ears.

I do have Pet Sound in my collection and I quite like a lot of it - Wouldn't It Be Nice and God Only Knows.

In starting the thread though I was just looking to get a feel for what forum members thought were the great albums - I wasn't trying to get a top 10 or anything like that.

In terms of the Beech Boys do you prefer Pet Sounds to Smile. I still think Good Vibrations was their pinnacle, but I don't know their catalogue that well: just the famous tracks.
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by Ecosse:
quote:
I would equate blandness with safety, myself. Otherwise 'Trout Mask Replica' would be at or near the top, and there would be no place for The Eagles. Dylan's 'Self Portrait' is a strong contender for 'worst album ever released by a major artist' and Sgt Pepper is vastly over-rated.


It's pehaps a different thread... top 100 over-rated albums of all time...


Yes definitely a different thread - think there was one like it once before. Try to accentuate the positive on this one.
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Malky
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
In terms of the Beech Boys do you prefer Pet Sounds to Smile. I still think Good Vibrations was their pinnacle, but I don't know their catalogue that well: just the famous tracks.


I prefer Pet Sounds. The reworked Smile is ok but not as good as those snippets of the original that emerged over the years. I love the original Good Vibrations but the "I'm picking up" addition to the re-recorded version just grates. Surf's Up is a great album.
Incidentally, it's nice to see stuff like The Fall, Patti Smith and Amon Duul being mentioned instead of (yawn) Sgt. Pepper.
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Guido Fawkes
Although I love Sgt Pepper and probably always will, I too am glad people are posting about less well know albums. I discovered many a great record through reading an enthusiast's view on why an album is great.
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by JWM
I'm gonna post an odd one for inclusion - The Doors, Morrison Hotel.

It's not even their finest album (though I like it!), but check out Peace Frog, and then go and listen to the Stone Roses. In Peace Frog we have the genesis of the glorious baggy sound of Madchester...

James
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Guido Fawkes
Sometimes even great album are Garbage and here's one



Now being lost in a world of folk, psych, prog, HMHB and forays in to classical is where I am at, but during the 90s I heard this album and thought it was superb.

I would now class it as a great album because it stands the test of time (10 years) and because it is just fully loaded with really excellent distinctive songs. It may be a bit pretentious in places, but what's wrong with that I'd like to know.

Super Vixen - Queer – Only Happy When It Rains – As Heaven Is Wide – Not My Idea – A Stroke Of Luck – Vow – Stupid Girl – Dog New Tricks - My Lover's Box – Fix Me Now - Milk

This album is full ideas - perhaps its folk album in disguise, as it has such fine songs.

There is a highly cohesive feel to the album; everything seems to fit in place, but there is no sense of monotony. In fact 6 of the tracks made it in to various hit-parades.

Surely one of the best albums of the 90s: Garbage by name is not Garbage by content, it is a great album.
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by JWM:
I'm gonna post an odd one for inclusion - The Doors, Morrison Hotel.

It's not even their finest album (though I like it!), but check out Peace Frog, and then go and listen to the Stone Roses. In Peace Frog we have the genesis of the glorious baggy sound of Madchester...

James


Interesting James

Goes without saying I like the Doors and agree Morrison Hotel is a great album. It paved the way for the excellent LA Woman and was a return to form after Soft Parade. Great lyrics too

There's blood in the streets, it's up to my ankles
She came
Blood in the streets, it's up to my knee
She came
Blood in the streets in the town of Chicago
She came
Blood on the rise, it's following me
Think about the break of day

She came and then she drove away
Sunlight in her hair

She came
Blood in the streets runs a river of sadness
She came
Blood in the streets it's up to my thigh
She came
Yeah the river runs red down the legs of a city
She came
The women are crying red rivers of weepin'

She came into town and then she drove away
Sunlight in her hair

Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding
Ghosts crowd the young child's fragile eggshell mind

Blood in the streets in the town of New Haven
Blood stains the roofs and the palm trees of Venice
Blood in my love in the terrible summer
Bloody red sun of Phantastic L.A.

Blood screams her brain as they chop off her fingers
Blood will be born in the birth of a nation
Blood is the rose of mysterious union

There's blood in the streets, it's up to my ankles
Blood in the streets, it's up to my knee
Blood in the streets in the town of Chicago
Blood on the rise, it's following me


However, you'll need to forgive my ignorance, as I don't think I've ever heard anything by The Stone Roses - am I missing out, is there a Stone Roses' track/album that I should try to get to hear.
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Steve S1
quote:
Sgt Pepper is vastly over-rated.


Let me see. Bought by millions, influenced hundreds of artists. Yes, very over rated. Roll Eyes

What utter cobblers. What you mean is you don't like it - that's an entirely different thing.

Steve
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by Guido Fawkes
I’m fortunate to have a copy of This is the Ice Age, the third album by Martha and the Muffins. To my knowledge, there has been no CD release in Europe, but it can be imported. There is no question in my mind that this is a great album.

The track "Women Around the World at Work" was released as a single in the UK and Canada and is the best known track on the album. If I tell it you it is a greatest song and yet still the weakest number on this oral masterpiece then you'll appreciate just how good this album is.

The cover image was taken by Muffins' guitarist Mark Gane from an apartment he was living in on Bloor Street in Toronto. It depicts the Bank of Montreal tower over a building in poor repair.



This is the Ice Age was their first collaboration with producer Daniel Lanois, Martha and the Muffins' backgrounds in experimental and pop music are in full play on This is the Ice Age. It’s rich textures and complex arrangement make this set the finest hour (40 minutes) for a truly superb band. Just listen to the opening track Swimming and it is one of the most beautiful, moody introduction you’ll hear and the title track is masterful.

If you have any liking for New Wave music then this is essential listening. It is not only a brilliant musical work but stands on par with the music of Barrett, Lennon & McCartney, Ray Davies, Christy Moore and Jake Thackery - and praise doesn’t come much higher. To go through life without ever hearing This Is The Ice Age is to risk living without knowing how truly wonderful pop music can be.
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by ryan_d
ROTF,

as far as the Stone Roses, just check out 'Fools Gold'.........its a classic and has so many influences but still remains an original track.

Ryan
Posted on: 20 April 2007 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by Steve S1:

quote:
Sgt Pepper is vastly over-rated.


What you mean is you don't like it - that's an entirely different thing.


Right on, Steve. That's exactly the point I've been trying to make, and I wish more folks would understand the distinction.

All best,
Fred


Posted on: 20 April 2007 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by Malky:
quote:
Originally posted by fred simon:
can we set aside our personal taste and consider the artistic worth of a musical work as a separate issue?

Of course we can, and this means that, unequivocally, Pet Sounds is the pinnacle of Western pop, and anyone who disagrees has cloth ears.


One of the highest peaks of human musical expression, for sure, but there can't be a singular pinnacle.

All best,
Fred


Posted on: 21 April 2007 by Malky
quote:
Originally posted by Steve S1:
What utter cobblers. What you mean is you don't like it - that's an entirely different thing.

No, it's not a bad album, but it is vastly over-rated.
Posted on: 21 April 2007 by Steve S1
quote:
No, it's not a bad album, but it is vastly over-rated.


How can be Malky? You are confusing opinion with fact.

When they made Sgt Peppers they were interested in being different. It doesn't sound that different now because similar music, some of which it influenced, is produced by the bucket.

But back then, it was very different. Trust me.

In terms of being over-rated, nothing that has been that successful by all reasonable measures of album success - sales, ratings, influences -can possibly be "over-rated".

We can all intellectualise whether it deserved to be, in our opinions, but we can't change the fact that it is.

As Fred has said, these are two entiely different discussions.

Incidentally, I don't regard it as anywhere near as good as some other Beatles albums, but to call it "over-rated" when it tops so many charts and opinion polls would be daft.

Regards,

Steve
Posted on: 21 April 2007 by Malky
quote:
Originally posted by Steve S1:
.Incidentally, I don't regard it as anywhere near as good as some other Beatles albums, but to call it "over-rated" when it tops so many charts and opinion polls would be daft.


Not at all, as has been mentioned, volume of sales would place the Spice girls above the Velvet Underground. As I said, it's not a bad album, A Day In The life must be regarded as one of their very best songs. She's Leaving Home and For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite are both superb songs but, let's be honest, Good Morning, Good Morning is average, When I'm Sixty Four is Mccartney at his whimsical worst, With A little Help From My Friends isn't very good and Getting Better is misogynist dross.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Beatles and think their stylistic influence is huge, but I think many people rate this as one of the all time greats are people who associate it with that whole Summer Of love thing and happy memories from their younger days.
Yeah, agreed, it's all opinion and Sgt. Pepper's is a decent album, I just think it memories of it's release are often better than the actual music.
Posted on: 21 April 2007 by Steve S1
I agree with some of what you say, Malky. But Sgt Peppers managed to appeal to non-Beatles fans in significant numbers. The Spice Girls comparison doesn't really hold up because Sgt Peppers continues to sell and has done steadily since original release.

There is no doubt that Lucy, and more especially A Day in the Life have "classic" status. The latter a considerable influence on all sorts.

"When I'm 64" and "She's Leaving Home" may be a bit whimsical - but they show quite a mature appreciation of life - for such young men.

I wonder what Macca thinks now he is nearly 64 - life is certainly different for 64 year olds these days.

Regards,

Steve
Posted on: 22 April 2007 by Sloop John B
This is a wonderful thread and has the capacity to become a tremendous source of information for album purchases.

I've often thought, that as good as the "what are you listening to" thread is, that sometimes I would like to shout a little bit louder from the rooftops about some albums I am listening to.

So every time I'm listening to an album that I believe is "great" - I'll bore you a little about in on this thread.




Elvis Costello - King of America


Elvis was gong nowhere with Goodbye Cruel World being about his worst release, was doing solo gigs and writing tracks on acoustic guitar that were less designed to be rocked up by the Attractions. Also He is producing "The Pogues- Rum Sodomy and the lash" and ends up marrying the bass player.


The songs were recorded with some of the best American session men around including some of Elvis Presley's backing band.

The result is a wonderful album with a mix of straight ahead rock n roll, country, folk and ballads.

Lyrically Elvis can be like "a chain saw running through a dictionary" as he describes himself in "our little angel" but this album is the strongest lyrically of any of his work.

I've always thought it strange for someone who writes his own songs that sometimes he writes out of his range and Elvis straining for notes is enough even to have my Spendors crying for mercy. There is none of that here. His voice complements the songs, is harsh on the scathing "little palaces", and tender and loving on "Indoor Fireworks" and "I'll wear it proudly"

It truly is one of those albums where it all came together perfectly and time diminishes it not a whit. - a great album



SJB
Posted on: 22 April 2007 by Ecosse
...good reminder, haven't played it for some time and only have it on record... it doesn't get much better than Indoor Fireworks... a very great album
Posted on: 22 April 2007 by Ecosse
...Talking of Elvis C, if 'best of' albums are eligable, Girls! Girls! Girls! (original vinyl version... not to be confused with the overly extended CD version) is a great great album. It has a coherence which most compilations don't have. 31 great songs which all seem like they were meant to be together on one album.
Posted on: 22 April 2007 by Guido Fawkes


In 1969 Shirley and Dolly Collins collaborated on Anthems in Eden. The sisters worked with the Early Music Consort of London and David Munrow and Christopher Hogwood.

Remember this is 1969 and everybody’s gone electric and what did they do: some folk songs with early music instruments: viols, recorders, sackbuts and crumhorns.

The music is so strikingly original, and I can think of nothing like it before or since. Sure albums like Trout Mask Replica broke the mould, but this was even more away from the norm However, not only was it different, it was a work of sheer beauty. Of course having the greatest singer of the 20th century on it sure helped (my completely unbiased view, of course), but it transcends even that fact - musically it is superb.

The original album has eight tracks that form the Anthems in Eden Suite - a story set to music, which lasts just over 28 minutes. The subsequent re-release of the album in 1976 saw six extra tracks added with the Albion Band.

The suite depicts the changes in rural England brought about by the First World War and the disconnection that this created with folk traditions - a completely fresh approach to recording English folk music.

This is certainly a great album - every bit as influential as Sgt Pepper (which I don’t find in the least overrated) or the Velvet Underground & Nico (which I thought was great when I was at school in the 60s and first bought it, but quite frankly doesn’t get near my turntable these days - perhaps I should listen to it again). But Anthems In Eden gets regular plays and along with Folk Roots, New Roots is one of the two essential folk albums. If you like Liege and Lief then be grateful that Shirley made this, because if the Fairports hadn’t of heard Shirley than that masterful work would never had emerged.
Posted on: 22 April 2007 by JWM
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
However, you'll need to forgive my ignorance, as I don't think I've ever heard anything by The Stone Roses - am I missing out, is there a Stone Roses' track/album that I should try to get to hear.


Two Albums - groundbreaking eponimous album, and then five years later 'The Second Coming' - baggy distilled, with a heavy, Led Zep vibe! I love both.

For a track that I think is close to the "backbeat that's narrow and hard to master" of 'Peace Frog', try 'Waterfall' on the first album. (Keep listening, and perhaps you'll agree that the melody in the verses of 'I am the resurrection' begins with a strong influence of 'Paint it Black!' - without sounding like a rip-off!!)

James
Posted on: 22 April 2007 by Guido Fawkes
The thanks James - I think I'll give the first album a go.

The heavy Led Zep vibe has made wary of the second (unless its Led Zep III, of course) Smile

All the best, Rotf