Distributed audio virgin

Mike - there are a load of ways. i see you are very local to me so if you wanted to see (and hear) a Mac based computer audio system then you'd be very welcome.

James

Unless you especially need to keep your computer away from your HiFi system I wouldn't look at the AirPort Express - the simplest (optical out of mac-mini into a DAC) works very well. Add an iPod Touch or iPhones as a remote control.

I guess what I am looking for is a book or articles that can describe the various audio digital data formats/protocols and the basic hardware options for implementing them, so that I can appreciate the trade-offs required to achieve high quality music reproduction before embarking on any outlay.

James thanks for the invitation - how do people get in personal touch via this forum?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Brian:
I guess what I am looking for is a book or articles that can describe the various audio digital data formats/protocols and the basic hardware options for implementing them, so that I can appreciate the trade-offs required to achieve high quality music reproduction before embarking on any outlay.

Yeah.... its called Google.

Hydrogen Audio is a definitive resource.

-patrick

@Michael

Unfortunately (or fortunately), computer-based audio is as full of opinion as traditional audio and one persons necessity is another persons horror.

Hydrogen Audio as pc mentioned is a good site but can be quite technical and a little overwhelming for a newbie. It is also very much in the objective camp.

You could also try Computer Audiophile which I have found to be extremely helpful and I have learned a lot. The people there are generally very helpful and extremely tolerant of the newbie and their "stupid" questions. Do not be afraid to ask. Some very bright people there.

There is a lot to learn from research but it can also confuse - at some stage one needs to put a foot in the water and there are plenty of cheap DACs out there with extremely good reputations. I would get one with an optical input for about 100 quid, buy any optical cable, connect it to your Mac and to your NAIM pre and see how it sounds. For me, as for many others, there is no going back.

To confuse or to prepare you for your research here are some debates that never resolve:

1. Lossless compressed sounds exactly the same as an uncompressed format. Yes it does. No it doesn't.

2. Which type of optical cable you buy matters. yes it does. No it doesn't.

3. Transports don't matter. Yes they do. No they don't..

4. USB is rubbish. Yes it is. No it isn't. BEHIND YOU ...

5. Jitter suppression is vital. No it isn't. Yes it is.

6. .. continue ....

I agree with harry's suggestion of getting a cheap DAC just to get rolling.

I recommend the Beresford for under $200. Stan's new version has USB, or you could easily go from the Mac Mini's optical output directly to the DAC.

iTunes will work until you decide on something more serious.

Harry

You are absolutely wrong....OK, no you are not...

This is a great piece of advice

quote:

at some stage one needs to put a foot in the water and there are plenty of cheap DACs out there with extremely good reputations. I would get one with an optical input for about 100 quid, buy any optical cable, connect it to your Mac and to your NAIM pre and see how it sounds.

Beresford and Cambridge DAC Magic come to mind, although the DAC Magic is not 100 quid.

Michael, if you pay for the postage I'll lend you my spare Beresford DAC.

Cheers

Jim

quote:

iTunes will work until you decide on something more serious

Mmmmm Yes it is. No it isn't

If you use iTunes turn the volume up to max and turn of any and all equalization. This ensures bit perfect output which should be the end of the matter but ....

[EDIT: @Michael - please post back with your results. Interested to hear about your journey and your impressions]

Thanks all for your responses. You are probably right that the only real way to get into computer audio is to try it and learn from there. Perhaps a little naive of me to expect to be able to mug it all up and then get it right without investing some cash. My experience of conventional audio, where I ended up upgrading over a period of time every Naim box I ever bought, got me thinking that I might be able to minimise the number of steps needed to get to an acceptable system by being cautious and better informed.

But of course audio it is ultimately subjective so there is probably no alternative to building experience through spending the money!

Mike

Michael,

If you want it to be REALLY easy, trust the work others have put into it and get an HDX. It will run you $8000 but worth every penny if you have that kind of budget. Everything you need in one box until you rip over 400 albums or so. Then you only need to add modest external storage.

It sounds incredible. And there are many upgrades from there e.g., future Naim DAC, PSU, Hiline, Powerline, etc...

If you went this route you could forget about rips, codecs, DACs, computers and Media Players. If you knew the amount of time you were going to be putting into this, perhaps the $8K is a bargain to have a no-brainer solution. Much in the same way that I will never change my own oil in my car regardless of how much less it would be.

-Patrick

quote:

Thanks all for your responses. You are probably right that the only real way to get into computer audio is to try it and learn from there. Perhaps a little naive of me to expect to be able to mug it all up and then get it right without investing some cash.

@Michael

No - not naive at all. There is a lot to mug up on and a load of great information out there and very interesting it is too. Like all hi-fi it is a matter of platform jumping, whichever you jump onto first there is always one above you. I don't think anyone would argue that you can get excellent results from the Mac you have, iTunes with all the gubbins off and a cheap DAC. All that then matters is whether that platform is good enough for you personally or not because there is (obviously) better.

The point is, I think, that this first platform for you in computer audio will cost you pennies compared to yr CDS3/252/300 and helps the whole learning process. Will allow you to rip apple lossless, WAV, AIFF and see if you can hear the difference, for example.

So hopefully nobody has put you off learning about this! As always, though, the best way to learn is to do and if the DAC you buy doesn't do it for you the downside is a couple hundred dollars or less and it can always be pushed out through ebay etc.

The only advice you need to start (given you have a Mac) is:

1. Turn volume up to max and all equalisation off on iTunes
2. Rip your CDs Apple Lossless or AIFF or WAV

(Point 2 is contentious - if you wish to avoid argument rip AIFF)

Apologies if the points are too obvious - don't know what level/platform you are at in your learning

This is a fascinating subject. For me, at least!

Harry, Patrick and all - thanks again. I agree that this is a very interesting subject which until now I have shied away from. The recent Naim developments, HDX, DAC and Uniti which I heard at a recent Naim demo have really sparked my interest but I realised just how little I knew about the subject. I will begin with my Mac and a low cost DAC and see where that takes me.

I just hope I can contain my enthusiasm in the interests of my bank balance.

Mike

Thanks for this thread, i'm a DA noob too and find the information very useful.

Michael,

I have tried just about every lower cost alternative to something like the HDX and I would buy the HDX in a heartbeat if I was a) in your shoes, and b) had the spare cash.

It is so good it tempts me just to buy one on a credit card. But I only buy with cash to keep myself from doing shit like that.

Given I already have my music ripped and a fully dialed method to my madness, I will patiently await one of the Naim DACs.

I tried the HDX, if you already have a Mac, just get a decent dac, I would suggest a Weiss dacII, better sq for less than half the price.

DHT,

The HDX wasn't for you, nor for me. But I would find it hard to believe if you didn't think it performed at a very high level. Also I would be surprised if you wouldn't recommend it to someone who is just starting out with DA and might have the budget for it?

-patrick

quote:

The HDX wasn't for you, nor for me. But I would find it hard to believe if you didn't think it performed at a very high level. Also I would be surprised if you wouldn't recommend it to someone who is just starting out with DA and might have the budget for it?

Patrick honestly I didn't think it performed to a very high level, especially when compared to the Weiss/mac combination, I already had a mac the Weiss was £1800, I did buy an ipod touch £165, as much as I admire naim , it was a straightforward decision.

Stan is currently doing a limited edition of the 7520 with a Wolfson WM8716 DAC chip in and a few other tweaks.

Stan is a really good guy and is a pleasure to do business with. At his prices the quality is very high. These are the kind of products that make people think that DACs are DACs and an expensive one is pointless.

I don't personally agree, but for $200 including shipping, it is a great way to dip the toe in the murky waters of DA. When you move on to something more serious after demoing other options, you can give it to an uninitiated friend or use it in a second system.

It has brought me immense pleasure, as it has to others as well (even forumites with 500 level kit), and is a huge upgrade over the Yamaha 5.1 receiver DAC i was previously using before I caught the Naim bug.

-p