A Night in Tunbridge Wells 2 - The Big Headphones

Posted by: David Hobbs-Mallyon on 24 September 2002

Following the success of a previous evening of music in Tunbridge Wells at Mr Lees’ residence, last week Nick, Dave J and myself headed round to Mr Alves’ establishment for a night of wine, whisky (sad I know) and song. First-up, I must declare that any recollections of the evening are restricted to the wine period – anything after that is consigned to oblivion. Many thanks to Mrs Alves for being such an ‘efficient’ hostess and for giving me certainly the greatest hangover I’ve had in the last 5 years or so. Waking up with the hangover from hell with the smell of goose salami and truffles is something I’d only reserve for my worst enemy.

Tom’s system consists of 52/180/SBLs – this is fed by CDSII, LP12 and NAT02. On the night, only the CDSII was given a hearing. What Tom was also keen to demonstrate was his latest ‘Amazing New Discovery’ - OK, another bloody mains cable.

Just as previous, prior to listening to any music, we all scrupulously checked system environment and set-up.

Room – I would expect to be acoustically challenging, due to the near cubic dimensions. Not sure how much of a problem this is, but Tom had tackled this with an array of soft furnishings. I was given Tom’s favoured ‘large headphone’ listening position of the chair located directly between the speakers, facing the same direction as they were firing.

Rack – Tunbridge Wells is the Hutter capital of the world, therefore the only choice you need to make is the colour. Tom is a cherry man.

Electrics – Separate mains spur, Musicworks block (something I still remain dubious about) and the ‘Amazing New Discovery’ – his Black Widow mains cables. According to Tom, these have removed a huge amount of hash from the system. Any more details Tom?

Speakers – SBLs on MDF Phase 2 – each phase costing a total of £1.50 – anyone interested should contact Tom for details.

Warm-up – to ensure consistency with last time (very important) we kept to the couple of bottles of wine before drinking started.

Overall set-up - I was slightly disappointed to find out that unlike some other forum members, Tom has not optimised his set-up for Bruckner’s 8th symphony. To the huge relief of everyone else, all my Bruckner discs were therefore left unplayed, leaving mainly a selection of jazz. Despite Mr Lees’ recent conversion to jazz, he was seen to make the odd excuse to leave the room for a cigarette whenever brush touched drum - some more work still to be done. Equally Nick was in a bit of a hippy mood, and I was seen making my excuses when the Grateful Dead made their entrance – there was to be no escape, Nick has provided me with a copy of ‘Without a Net’ to play at my leisure.

Anyway we then spent the next 4 hours or so throwing the usual very broad range of music at the system. Mr Lees has volunteered to provide the complete list, so I will avoid comment on the music until then.

So what of the system – well certainly Tom has one of the best set-up pair of SBLs I have ever heard. Attention to detail in set-up has extracted more bass than any other pair I have heard, and the room and speaker are definitely very complimentary. As an ex-SBL owner I was left with slightly mixed feeling from the evening – they reminded me what I really miss about SBLs – speed and timing probably better than just about any other speaker, and a way with bass reproduction (which I would put down to it’s boundary reinforcement design) which really brings out the rhythm of a piece of music. The down side for me was minor, but my tastes are slightly more round earth, and just a touch more depth to the presentation would have suited me. I also still have my reservations about the Musicworks block, but I will be investigating these Black Widows at some point. In the end, it comes down to how much you enjoy the music, and the system certainly scored highly with me.

Anyway, many thanks to Tom and Sarah-Jane for the hospitality – I shall aim to give you both an equivalent hangover at some point in the future. I’ll write some more on the music when Nick jogs my memory as to what we heard all evening.

David
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Nick,

I wasn't sure about Ms Farmer - perhaps one to do a swap. The Salmonella Dub I thought was excellent.

My favourites of the night. The Alison Krauss won my award for 'Recording Made for a Naim System'.

Also enjoyed the Dougie McLean. Unfortunatly memory seems to have wiped the Bach/Busoni - was it good?

On Louis Armstrong, you get more air round the hiss on my system.

David

[This message was edited by David Hobbs-Mallyon on TUESDAY 24 September 2002 at 12:03.]
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by Peter Stockwell
All I can say is that you lot live dangerously close to each other!

Envious of your music buddy binge ... but not of the hangovers.

Peter
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
I'll hopefully try one of the Black Widows at some point in the future. I'll report back any findings.

quote:
The hutter is in Pear.....

....and I think on the balance probably the best colour of the lot. Mine looks a bit stark in comparison.

quote:
Envious of your music buddy binge ... but not of the hangovers.

This is the second we've done, and I heard loads of music that I've enjoyed that I'm pretty sure I would never hear otherwise.

I'm not planning a hangover like that for at least another 5 years. Tom caught me in the middle of a fitness phase at the moment, so alcohol tolerance isn't my strong point.

David
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
quote:
it did more bass than I thought it would, but couldn't compete for deepness or articulation at the lower notes it could get to. I was left with a feeling (as with many speakers not designed to go very low) that it was guessing a lot of the notes.


Not sure I agree with this. I think 135s would give you a lot more definition than 180s allow, so not sure you could isolate it to a speaker issue.

Also, I'm guessing, but I got the impression that there was a room resonance waiting to happen, just below where the SBLs were mainly working. In that respect, I think Tom has got the perfect speakers for the room.

David
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
...put a pair of DBLs in there and it will probably knock through to your neighbours for you.

David
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
quote:
I'd love to hear a pair - anyone live in staggering distance of TW who's got a pair and doesn't mind listening to Dreadzone?

Hey, I can be your chauffeur - I'll even promise to behave and stay sober.
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by John Sheridan
quote:
I'd love to hear a pair - anyone live in staggering distance of TW who's got a pair and doesn't mind listening to Dreadzone?


Is Beckenham too far for you to stagger?
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by Greg Beatty
...is the settup something like this?



^
|
Couch
^ ^
| |
Wall SBL SBL Wall


Pardon if this has been discussed before. If so, would someone link me to the appropriate thread?

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
No,

It's

S.....Usual Listening.....S
i..........Position...........i
d..............................d
e..............................e
w.............................w
a............Chair...........a
l......SBL............SBL....l
l........B a c k W a l l.....l


I'm sure there must be an easier way.....

David
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Paul,

Have you met Sarah-Jane?

David
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by Greg Beatty
...so does "Usual Listening Position" NOT correspond to where you usually listen?

Do you prefer to sit on the couch with your back to the speakers and with the speakers facing towards the couch?

Sorry if I seem like an idiot on this.

I remember back in high school I had these large JVC speakers - big boxes that served as end tables for a couch. We put them on either side of the couch at one end of the room and aimed them *backwards*. We listened mostly from the middle of the room. The result was very natural as opposed to having screeching tweeters pointing at us.

Just curious what others have done along similar lines.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Greg,

You're thinking too hard about this....

'Usual Listening Position' was supposed to denote that this is the position that most people listen to their speakers. Speakers fire towards the ULP

The chair is turned the other way round to the ULP.

One of the hifi rags a few months back had a review of Jimmy Hughes' (a hifi reviewer) system. He does have his main speakers set-the other way round i.e. tweeters pointing away from the listener.

David
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by Jay
quote:
Salmonella Dub - "Outside The Dubplates" - Wytaliba (Dreadzone Mix)



I'm impressed - "Inside" and "Outside" the Dubplates are fantasic - keep it up big grin

Jay

Yabba, dabba, doooooo
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Lees:
Yup. Though I'm sure Martin Payne could shoe-horn a pair of DBLs in there!



I ran my active Isobariks in an 11' x 12' room for about 8 years. The 12' dimension was effectively 11' because of a very large chimney breast. Fantastic.

Although my current room is about twice the size, I'd go back to the smaller room without hesitation, as it sounded better.


It appears DBLs would work in this situation, too:-

quote:
Date: 26-Jun-98 03:08
Author: julian vereker
Subject: space


Roy (the DBLs designer) uses his DBLs in a room 9'10" x 10'1"......

julian

PS it does have an alcove for the 135s and power supplies.


cheers, Martin
Posted on: 24 September 2002 by Mark Dunn
John wrote:

>Is Beckenham too far for you to stagger?<

From your ID it looks like you moved from Sydney to London/Beckenham? I moved from Beckenham to Dallas (via Minnepolis and Memphis).

The next time I'm home I'd love to hear your system.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

PS Feel free to pop round and have a cuppa with my mum.

PPS Is Maple road in Penge still good for rowdy pubs with good beer?
Posted on: 25 September 2002 by John Sheridan
quote:
From your ID it looks like you moved from Sydney to London/Beckenham? I moved from Beckenham to Dallas (via Minnepolis and Memphis).


Yes, moved to Beckenham a few weeks ago after living in Clapham and Bromley.

quote:
The next time I'm home I'd love to hear your system.


sure, any time.

quote:

PPS Is Maple road in Penge still good for rowdy pubs with good beer?

not my scene really. Can't say that I've done any more than pass through Penge...
Posted on: 25 September 2002 by seagull
I was interested by the seating arrangements as I have similar constraints at home with an armchair between the speakers. I'm not sure I like it when listening in the large headphones position so avoid it whenever possible.

poll results were

Chair opposite speakers..... 43%
large headphone position.... 0%
slumped on sofa............. 25%
dancing round room.......... 25%
lotus....................... 8%

and one in the 'doggy' position.

Hope the 25% who dance do not suffer from footfall problems (perhaps they are all vinylphobes)
Posted on: 25 September 2002 by seagull
Posted on: 25 September 2002 by Dave J
Tom/David/Nick,

Apologies for the belated reply - I was out of the office until yesterday p.m. and then had to turn my attentions to a rush research job that needs completing by Friday. Nevertheless, despite a workload that borders on the barbaric, I somehow managed to end up in HMV in Leicester Square and Virgin in Manchester since the evening at Tom's and another 8 or 10 CD's have found their way into the collection. I fear it's become an automatic process - hope I paid for them!

Anyway, thanks again to Tom and the very lovely Sarah-Jane for such excellent hospitality. I was going to say that I regretted not being able to join in the booze-a-rama session as I've always adhered to the "if its worth doing, it's worth caning" view but in the interests of precise and careful audio analysis and the protection of my driving licence I suppose I made the correct choice.

Echoing some of the earlier comments, I have to say I've never heard SBL's sounding as good, not least for their ability to produce a very acceptable amount and quality of bass. No, they're not in any way like Nick's Obs or my own Isobariks but Tom's very exacting set up has clearly paid enormous dividends. I am also increasingly coming to the view that the 'Tunbridge Wells Stand(ard) of choice', the Hutter, is pretty much sonically invisible, applying no particular signature to the equipment but just allowing everything to get on with the job. I really will have to dem them directly against the Fraim stands I'm currently considering before I sign the cheque.

I'm also now 'getting' the CDS11; having heard it well warmed up in several systems and at some length. I was particularly interested to hear 'The Lady in my Life' off the Stanley Jordan album which I've got on vinyl. Knowing how good it sounds on a well set-up LP12, I was impressed to hear how the CDS11 has a much more analogue-like sound than just about any CD player I've heard (although naturally, and in the interests of giving the argument one last poke, the LP12 is still significantly 'better').

Tom's system worked extremely well with all the material I brought or was familiar with, even, perhaps surprisingly, the Salmonella Dub track which was shit hot by the way. It particularly likes female vocal, with Alison Kraus sounding as seductive as I've heard and Goldfrapp being not far behind. My only slight reservation I suppose would be, as Nick mentioned, the Rammstein track which, although good, missed out on the ball-kicking grunt I'm used to. I'd be very interested to hear what effect Tom's impending acquisition of a pair of 250s has. If I were Tom I don't think I'd be inclined to look at different speakers - the timing and sheer pace of them, as they are set up, is really very attractive indeed.

In all, a great evening.

I expect to be rid of builders, decorators and their associated detritus by the end of November at which time it's over to mine for a rather more humble set up but a proper chance to hear how utterly sublime vinyl can be.

Dave