poor old tvr

Lotus have been owned by Proton for years.

Seems slightly suspicious that the new owner has arrived with promise of investment, the product has improved and now this? Perhaps just me. Was the company profitable under Peter Wheeler, or had the decline started then?

Of the other companies metioned, Marcos has recently been revived from the dead, Lotus is Proton, Noble are doing OK (and about to launch a new model which may be pretty crucial). The largest UK owned car manufacturer in terms of units sold is probably Caterham now-selling about 500 cars a year I think, of which 25-30% are exported.

Bruce,

TVR made something of an error of judgement in the eyes of many when they started developing their own engines during Wheeler's tenure. The AJP V8 in the Cerbera is I think a pretty incredible powerplant and generally reliable however they have suffered a lot of problems with the Speed 6 engine in the Tuscan, Tamora etc. Essentially the engine was designed by a top engine designer called Al Melling but rumour has it Melling fell out with Wheeler and so Wheeler changed the design of the engine slightly to avoid paying a royalty to Melling. The engine ended up with a design issue which caused some of them to need rebuilds at alarmingly low mileages and gradually horror stories about the engine started to deter buyers. Result the Rover V8 cars are in very high demand with high residual values (my original pre-cat TVR Griffith is actually appreciating slightly)but the Speed 6 engined cars seem to have had declining sales.

The current state of play is that the engine is now believed to have be a lot more reliable having undergone significant revision and a three year warranty is offered to provide greater peace of mind. TVR have also paid a lot of attention to quality of fit and finish and improved their handling greatly. Some of us who are fans of the marque remain unconvinced by the slightly max power styling which lacks some of the grace and classic style of the Wheeler era designs.

Personally I'm not entirely convinced this Russian has any of Wheeler's genius, but he certainly has deep pockets and at least he has prevented TVR becoming a division of a major carmaker and thus forced to answer to the beancounters.

Apparently they have something rather special planned for the motor show so I'm rather looking forward to that. I'd love to see them go from strength to strength - they've so much character I can't imagine anything else giving me more pleasure to drive (well you could twist my arm and get me in the new V8 Aston I suppose...)

Brg,

Jonathan

Comparing the last paragraph to the news bulletins I take your location is the starship then Jonathan?

quote:

Originally posted by DAVOhorn:
I wonder how our other small specialist manufactureres are doing?

eg
Lotus
Marcos
Noble
etc etc.

Hey David, don't forget Bristol Cars Ltd.

"Nicely Understated - Never Underrated".

They're still going with a range that includes the 200mph Bristol Fighter supercar.

They were formed out of the old Bristol aeroplane company after the war and took over the fabulous BMW designs of that time.

Look at Bristol now. Look at BMW. Sigh.

Regards
Steve

Is it just me, or do Bristol's Blenheim series look like a cross between a Ford Capri and a Morris Marina ?

Whatever, I don't like them, but then again there is no accounting for taste.

/dl

Totally agree. Apart from the new 'Fighter' they look like badly executed kit cars

Mmmm, a Bristol Fghter S, a snip at £1/4M.

Bob,

Your starship reference went a bid over my head can you elaborate?? Sorry if I'm being dense!

J

The juxtaposition of the reported total demise of the company by the press and the TGWU and your optimism for a forthcoming motor show made me suggest that it could only be because you were on an Enterprise in a distant galaxy away from things earthly!

Intresting post above Bob.

I was aware that TVR had invested significantly on increasing reliability (and warranty) on the range, also of the Speed 6 problems. I guess some cost savings have to be made-perhaps a fitter TVR will emerge but part of the issue must be wether they will retain the charisma and essence that has kept them going despite being a company who basically build fairly simple vehicles (with striking styling and stonking engines).

I'd question what is left for TVR. The do not have the specialist engineering that kept Lotus going through the lean spells, the engine technology is fine, but not terribly saleable (?too expensive for another low volume manufacturer to buy) and the styling and low-tech approach of the range is starting to look more dated than distinctive. They have no real slice of the track-day market (which has sustained Noble/Caterham to a degree) and the increasing safety and emissions legislation must surely be a burden on small volume sellers.

I'm not a fan really, but I do see the appeal. I have a friend with a Chimaera, we swap toy cars occasionally for a weekend blat in the country and it is always amusing. I'm just unsure what a 'modern' TVR should be like, and suspect that we may not ever get to find out.

Bruce

From what I've heard from people who have visited the TVR factory, the only thing going for the company is the "... striking styling and stonking engines." Any engineering or manufacturing capability that manifests itself in the final product is there purely by chance.

Like I said, 2nd hand opinions, but maybe a smidgen of truth in there somewhere.

/dl

Ahhh Bristols !!!!!

An interesting company.

Always innovative using intelligent design and engineering practice.

Have a very loyal customer base.

Are happy to buy in engines and gear boxes and invest in improving said.

So much so that Chrysler Canada used the mods made by bristol on their engines and gearboxes.

The Blenheim is aesthetically interesting and has a degree of elegence about it that i find attractive.

I would love a 411 mk 3,4 or 5.

Bristol will take your 1973 411 mk 3 and basically put a blenheim powertrain and suspension in it for a not outrageous sum.

The fighter is about the same size as a 911 but has a larger and taller cabin a large boot and substantial performance. Costs a shed load of money though.

Aerodynamically Bristols are very efficient and have been since the 50's.

They have also been at the fore front of technology. Just ask Dunlop and Anthony Crook checking out the run flat tyre at WAY ABOVE 100mph. Nothing untoward happened . Dunlop were very pleased.

The 2 litre 6 cylinder "hot rodded BMW" was used by very many manufacturers of spots cars and formula racing cars.

Cooper being one of the succesful and Lister and AC and and and.

So a peculiar quiet modest company going their own way but with sufficient customers to stay in business quietly for over 50 years.

Would i buy one instead of a 911 GT 3 or Bentley
Continenetal GT (VW Phaeton) i dont know as that question will probably never trouble my wallet.

But ????????

LJK Setright was a long time owner and fan of all things Bristol, so they must have done something right.

Yes he did move on to VW Scirocco's and Honda Preludes.

regards David

Now David, how did I know you'd have a soft spot for Bristol Cars? What was that quirky loudspeaker you showed me up in your attic back in 1990?

I like the later 411s too (I probably have that same LJK Setright book) but my particular favourite was the 403. I saw a stunning, white 400 convertible once in California. It was probably the only one in existence and was going very cheap too. I should have bought it.

I'd love to drive down to see the Le Mans 24hrs in a Bristol Fighter. Have to sell a fair few speakers though. Sigh.

Regards
Steve

I think the problems with TVR go back to the roots of the brand as a cheap(er) source of performance motoring. The Chimps & Griff had ground breaking styling for their time and were based on a proven bored out Rover V8, with relatively crude but effective drivetrains, which offered Ferrari level performance.

Once these cheap entry points went (as did the once robust 2nd hand values), the pricing went to Porsche levels with the 350 range and the build quality & reliability, were/are no match for a Boxster, the sporty Beemers (Z4) or a 2nd hand Carrera, coupled to which the hot hatch market and the likes of the Honda S3000 (2000?) & latest Toyotas offer swift performance for a load less cash. 2nd hand values now are painful for sellers.

The Sugaris and now aged Tuscan cars can't keep a business like this going. They also re-positioned their dealer network but without the product, you ain't got anything decent to sell.

Sad but true.

Dear Steve ,

I believe it was my 1959 pair of Ge'Go Orthophase OR3 W4.

I still have them.

They are similar in size to QUAD ESL 57 but use ribbon drive units not electrostatic.

Are you sure it was a Bristol 400 convertible.

There were a few as in very few 402 convertibles made and i believe Stewart Granger had two one for himself and one for his wife.

There were other very limited Bespoke versions of 401 and 403 such as Beutler and others i cant remember.

Also 6 Zagato 406 and 1 Zagato 407 coupe.

How are you steve and how are your speakers doing ?

regards David

Are you sure you're not getting confused with a Star Wars robot (OR3 W4)? You showed me the speakers but I didn't get to hear them. Are they working now?

I'm pretty sure it was a 400 convertible that I saw but it was many years ago. It was probably one of Stewart Granger's (I was in LA). Yes, some of the Zagatos were gorgeous.

I'm absolutely fine - just celebrated my 4 year old's birthday today with a party in the garden. It was good that the weather did so well.

The speakers are going well too. I'm hoping to get the new models out soon and I'm really looking forward to that.

I hope you're doing well too.

Regards
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
Hey David, don't forget Bristol Cars Ltd.

"Nicely Understated - Never Underrated".

They're still going with a range that includes the 200mph Bristol Fighter supercar.

The Fighter looks slightly acceptable, but the Blenheim looks more like a Capri on steroids. Sorry.

Cheers,

Edo