Eek, me ears are bleedin'

Posted by: garyi on 30 July 2002

Ok, somewhat concerned. returned home today didn't appear to be any neighbours in so wound up the wick.

On the list:

Massive Attack: Blue Lines
Baby Mammouth: Seven up
David Bowie:Heathen

The hardware: CDi, 180, FC, 102, NAPSC, SBLs, standard naim cables.

All music via CD.

The Problem
Ear bleeding style treble. Especially Massive attack, I had to turn it off, no joke.

The cure

1 180? Common Gary you know this was the bad boy.
2 Standard naim cables ha! Anyone knows cables transform or kill a system.
3 CDi, that poor old thing, time to move on.
4 Its the naim sound Gary, you twat.
5 SBLs Gary, face it 'they' were right all along.
6 That'll teach you, you laminate floor laying turd.
7 Bad Kama, all them CDs were poor recordings, honest.
8 Get some sound bases for the SBLs.
9 You have fallen into the deadly world of vinyl, the LP12 has proven how poor the CD medium is and always will be.
10 Flat cap? Comon Gary you are into big box technology now, lose the slim line.

Ok, with them suggestions, and I hope more to come, what should I start out with?

I would respectfully ask this not turn into a stand wars, lets just assume I know Mana is the way forward and that ash is not. However I feel that there are elements in the system which can be cured cheaply before I spend a substatial amount of money on a stand, bearing in mind this one is only a few months old.

FWIW I havn't tried vinyl at a similar volume will report back in the near future on that.

Cheers Folks

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by Martin M

Long ago I had a 82/hi-Cap/180 and it could on occasion produce treble that could knock bats from the skies. It was very depressing. I upgraded to 52/135s, and this was smooth as silk by comparison, this made SBLs produce a much more tolerable and enjoybale sound, taht generally confounded SBLs critics.

Have a look at the amps, see what happens when you ditch the pre or power.

Soundbases are a very good idea too.

Suffice to say, 52/135s/DBLs can do frightening things wth Mezzanine.

Good luck

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by Naheed

Mate - your probably a master at this given your set-up guide, but recently i shifted my SBLs but rocked the mid-unit when resealing bypressing the NACA5 into it - the sound was well shouty and spitty at the top end.

Resealing the SBLs brought back the smooth natural presentation.

That all said if you have the upgrade bug (i reckon your just trying to justify your next purchase)

then get the Mana Rack and Soundbases for the SBLs

naheed
active Phase 4 SBLs is the only way...

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by Andrew Randle

11 Mains supply? Sod's Law coming into play.

Source first man! Although I recall the CDI was a well-behaved player. See what you make of the vinyl before coming to a decision. If the vinyl spinner is fine then cool.

By the way, Mezzanine and Seven Up are superb recordings and I'm definitely surprised about your aggressive treble-trouble with these albums.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by Thomas K

Good advice by Naheed. Another thing is that you may have never cranked your current setup before -- usually the bass and midrange will cry uncle before the treble, that's all (same thing happens in my system*). If I was at liberty to crank the volume every day, I would definitely need bigger amps too, but as neither of us is, I wouldn't worry too much.

Thomas

* I run a mullet system, but my mains quality is quite good.

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by garyi

The Hardware Linn LP12, Ittok, Valhalla, Klyde

The software
Ry cooder Jazz, (shit hot album by the way, chosen for the honky tonk sounds and genral masses of instruments
Frank Zappa From meets the mothers of Prevention: Whats new in Baltimore. For those that know zappa this one is full of all sorts of treble stuff.

The conclusion
Fantastic. Treble still there, could perhaps use some smoothing off but compares CD, no compitition.

Of course the fair thing to do now is compare the same album on both formts, at the same volume, difficult but worth a try.

Vuk. I understand the mullet principle, unless this can only be established through cost surely the CDi is infact a very good player, worthy of 102/180? I suppose I could go and get a pair of kef coda 9s or something to bring it ini line, but that just ain't gonna happen.

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by JosephR

Definitely not the SBLs ...

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by garyi

Software Yes: Starship trooper.

A bastard to get right IMO. Vinyl wins without a fart, more bass control, not as deep mind. Treble fine, even with Jons 'missing balls' voice.

So after quick experimentation I could put this down to CD source. But common, its my understanding and belief that the CDi was and is a cracking player.

Many have said that the CDX (the next place to look?) is harsh without the XPS, now I don't have that money, not at all.

So whats a good way out, buy more vinyl I suppose.

Incedently I have just turned the CD version down as I write, no doubt about it I have been vinyled.

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by Mike Hanson

I found that Naim gear can be really harsh without good power. Make sure that you have your mains et al. sorted.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by Martin Payne

Gary,

long shot, but try listening to the CDI after unplugging everything else (LP12, etc) from the preamp.

I would also expect this if your power supplies/power amp are too close to the CD or preamp.

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by garyi

Martin if your concern is regarding my cable dressing you may have a point:

Tee hee

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by garyi

Yes that is a 6 way cheap mains block under that lot.

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by John C

"Software Yes: Starship trooper"

Garyi, I wouldn't listen to eejits like Marco and Ed, you need a musical education.Can anyone sensible help this poor lad?

Software eh. Christ Almighty!

John

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by John C

Ed, I bet I'd love to shop in your shop (just can't afford it) but are all your customers proggie?

John

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by John C

So he was alright last week?

John

Posted on: 30 July 2002 by John C

I'd probably like my stereo if I'd met you then.

'Night

John

Posted on: 31 July 2002 by Peter Stockwell

quote:
Originally posted by garyi:
Yes that is a 6 way cheap mains block under that lot.

Gary,

I have an Ash stand like yours; for about two years now, it looks good and sounds OK. It was probably never the best sounding solution, but, importantly it has Waf! I had the cable management panel in the system, but prefer the sound without. I found it easier to manage the cables and reduced a bit of zing. The other thing that's very important with the Ash, is to tighten the rack mounting stubs, the spikes and the bolts that hold the metal frame to the wooden part, only enough to hold firm. No Torquing to the max!

Power lines, A dedicated power line will jump the level of performance from the CD player several notches. It improves everything, but CD players really need the cleanest mains possible. When you get your dedicated mians line installed get at least two or three lines. Currently I run the preamp/amp on one line and the sources on the other.

As for power cables, I believe, mostly, that naim standard cables work best for Naim. Where you might find a cable that works differently is where something else is wrong in the system and the cable will do something to compensate.

Peter

Posted on: 31 July 2002 by Thomas K

James: I think I may once have described the SBL along the lines of an otological haemorrhage-inducer

You might as well put it in your signature ... Since the treble improved when switching from CD to vinyl, it *may not* be the speakers (sorry to point out the obvious).

Thomas