Coffee Makers
Posted by: Mick P on 08 December 2002
Chaps
Our ten year old coffee maker (drip filter type) has just conked out.
I drink tea but Mrs Mick can sink enough coffee for England. She has therefore asked (that mean told) me to buy a "decent" coffee maker. She wants normal coffee, expresso and Capuchino.
Any idea of the best makes, I notice that Dualite are now flogging them.
If you have any advice on what to go for and what to avoid, I would be most grateful. Are you better off buying separate machines or one of the all in type.
Many thanks
Mick
Our ten year old coffee maker (drip filter type) has just conked out.
I drink tea but Mrs Mick can sink enough coffee for England. She has therefore asked (that mean told) me to buy a "decent" coffee maker. She wants normal coffee, expresso and Capuchino.
Any idea of the best makes, I notice that Dualite are now flogging them.
If you have any advice on what to go for and what to avoid, I would be most grateful. Are you better off buying separate machines or one of the all in type.
Many thanks
Mick
Posted on: 09 December 2002 by Jonathan Gorse
Mick,
To get an authentic expresso you need a pumped machine capable of 15lb pressure which is generally expensive ie £250-£600. The exception to this is the Morphy Richards Roma pumped expresso maker from Argos for £100. We bought one and we love it. It does expresso, capuccino and if I want a longer coffee I just add more hot water to expresso.
If you've got the cash the machine generally recognised as the best is the Rancilio Silvia £350.
It's very important to buy coffee beans and grind them fresh before making your coffee - makes a big difference. You need a burr grinder and these are more expensive. Blade grinders scorch the beans and grind too coarse. We bought a Starbucks Barista (£59 - Starbucks) but if you're feeling flash you could go for a Rancilio Rocky (£150)
You should use good coffee beans too. We buy Starbucks because they're convenient. We ran out once and bought some in Sainsbury - never again!!!
Budget for a thermometer (so you know when the milk is hot enough), frothing jug, airtight jars for storing beans. Readily available in Starbucks/Covent Garden Coffee or Whittards.
We got set up for less than £200 and have been enjoying superb coffee ever since. Take a peek at www.coffeegeek.com
Have fun,
Jonathan
To get an authentic expresso you need a pumped machine capable of 15lb pressure which is generally expensive ie £250-£600. The exception to this is the Morphy Richards Roma pumped expresso maker from Argos for £100. We bought one and we love it. It does expresso, capuccino and if I want a longer coffee I just add more hot water to expresso.
If you've got the cash the machine generally recognised as the best is the Rancilio Silvia £350.
It's very important to buy coffee beans and grind them fresh before making your coffee - makes a big difference. You need a burr grinder and these are more expensive. Blade grinders scorch the beans and grind too coarse. We bought a Starbucks Barista (£59 - Starbucks) but if you're feeling flash you could go for a Rancilio Rocky (£150)
You should use good coffee beans too. We buy Starbucks because they're convenient. We ran out once and bought some in Sainsbury - never again!!!
Budget for a thermometer (so you know when the milk is hot enough), frothing jug, airtight jars for storing beans. Readily available in Starbucks/Covent Garden Coffee or Whittards.
We got set up for less than £200 and have been enjoying superb coffee ever since. Take a peek at www.coffeegeek.com
Have fun,
Jonathan
Posted on: 09 December 2002 by Phil Sparks
To get the best coffee you need to be able to make a perfect espresso - the original Gaggia recipe is: 9bar pressure, 7g of coffee, 25 secs extraction time. Therefore as well as a decent (ie. solid) pumped espresso machine you need a decent burr grinder as well. The Rancilio is great, and most of the 'name' italian machines such as Gaggia, Saeco etc. will be OK.
The one permissable alternative is a fully automatic machine. Saeco are the main manufacturers of these. Basically they're smaller versions of the machines used in Pret and you simply lob water and unground beans in the hoppers on the top, press a button and get a pretty decent espresso out 20 or 30 secs later. The machine grinds the beans fresh makes the espresso and chucks out the spent grounds in one action. The downside is that they're expensive in UK (say £600) but are about half that price in Italy - we just bought one in Rome for Euro 500 for my brother-in-law (see link to Saeco web site below). We've had one for about 6 years and it still works well. I've got to be honest and say it's doesn't make as good an espresso as my best ever (on a Barista course using a £4k machine) but it's better than any espresso I've ever had at Charbucks, etc.
Saeco magic de lux
Hope this helps
Phil
The one permissable alternative is a fully automatic machine. Saeco are the main manufacturers of these. Basically they're smaller versions of the machines used in Pret and you simply lob water and unground beans in the hoppers on the top, press a button and get a pretty decent espresso out 20 or 30 secs later. The machine grinds the beans fresh makes the espresso and chucks out the spent grounds in one action. The downside is that they're expensive in UK (say £600) but are about half that price in Italy - we just bought one in Rome for Euro 500 for my brother-in-law (see link to Saeco web site below). We've had one for about 6 years and it still works well. I've got to be honest and say it's doesn't make as good an espresso as my best ever (on a Barista course using a £4k machine) but it's better than any espresso I've ever had at Charbucks, etc.
Saeco magic de lux
Hope this helps
Phil
Posted on: 09 December 2002 by Edo Engel
Mick,
The usual Italian brands like Gaggia and Rancilio are what you want if you're looking for seperate grinders/espresso machines. OTOH, if you're looking for something fully automatic and decently engineered, an alternative you might want to consider is Jura of Switzerland. You can find product information on their USA homepage, but I guess their products are available locally in the UK as well.
In deciding for separate machines or an automatic machine, think about the aspect of cleaning the thing as well. For instance, the automatic machines have reservoirs that need to be filled (and emptied), but are tidier on the outside than a seperate grinder might be if not handled well.
Cheers,
Edo
The usual Italian brands like Gaggia and Rancilio are what you want if you're looking for seperate grinders/espresso machines. OTOH, if you're looking for something fully automatic and decently engineered, an alternative you might want to consider is Jura of Switzerland. You can find product information on their USA homepage, but I guess their products are available locally in the UK as well.
In deciding for separate machines or an automatic machine, think about the aspect of cleaning the thing as well. For instance, the automatic machines have reservoirs that need to be filled (and emptied), but are tidier on the outside than a seperate grinder might be if not handled well.
Cheers,
Edo
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by MarkEJ
Mick;
Plenty of ideas above, none of which I have any direct experience with. I like the sound of Mark L's Krups, but if interested I would want to take it apart in the shop to see how much plastic was close to its heating element(s), and how easy it was to descale. These factors, I suspect, will be the ones which will dictate it's lifespan. Frankly, I don't think 10 years is good enough for kitchen goods.
Anyway, we thought long and hard about coffee makers a couple of years ago, and we noticed the following:
1. The only form of coffee which actually requires any machinery is espresso, because its method requires pressure, and you need some sort of pressure-capable vessel in order to make it. You can get a basic stove-top espresso pot for about 20 quid, which will enable you both to live with the stuff and make sure you like it. We like it a lot, but eventually decided that we would keep espresso "special" and not have it at home. We always take the espresso pot camping, though.
2. If you go for an espresso capability, be aware that some "domestic" machines only take pre-manufactured "pods" of coffee. This makes clearing up easier, but IME seriously compromises the whole thing and maybe should be avoided. Also, most of them seem to offer only a half-hearted attempt to provide dome method of warming the cups before pouring -- doing this properly makes a big difference.
3. I have 2 clients who were early adopters of the Dualit espresso device. IMHO it is a blatant attempt to trade on the reputation of their once-excellent toasters. It is flimsy, tinny, leaky, hard to clean and generally inferior to what one would expect from them. Some owners have been advised not to use the double spout as the design is so flawed that you end up with coffee everywhere but in the cups.
4. As with everything else, "source first" reaps real benefits. Having not spent money on an espresso machine, we blew it instead on a coffee roaster, so that we can buy green beans (which keep for ages), roast them in small quantities, grind them fresh and have superb cafetiere coffee. This is in every way vastly superior to any other type of coffee made from supermaket vacu-pack. The roasting cycle takes less than 10 mins, and generates no manual washing-up. We also bought a Britta filter jug, which hugely improves both coffee and tea, and stops the kettle scaling up. If you end up with a machine which boils or heats water, you can't ignore the scale problem.
5. Budget for good storage. the best way we have found for storing roasted beans is a Vac-U-Vin coffee jar at room temperature. You put the lid on and punp out the air, which both seals the lid and stores the contents in a near vacuum. Makes a big difference.
6. Grinding is controversial. There is a school of thought which states that any electric grinder is bad news as they expose the beans to too much friction, scorching the oils in the beans. Can't comment, but certainly most electric grinders that I have looked at are major design bodges, IMHO. The more celebrated and expensive the grinder brand (Gaggia come to mind), the more brainless seems to be their design. Most of them involve a lot intricately-shaped clear acrylic, which of course will become charged with static, and swiftly covered with a film of fine coffee dust. This then goes stale, and contaminates your next brew. Washing the whole thing each time is more hassle than using a hand grinder -- but these latter have a set of issues all their own. If anyone knows of one which fails to get a load of coffee between the drawer and its housing (going all over the worktop when you pull out the drawer), I'd love to know about it. We have an old Braun electric with an acrylic lid -- you only have to wipe the bowl (smooth stainless, no screw heads) with a kitchen towel and rinse the lid. It gets used in 1 second bursts, and works quite well. There is also a groove around its base which allows easy storage of the mains flex, something I've never seen on any of the competition.
7. John Lewis are good for rummaging with the kit to get a feel for what's what. You can usually do this without taking up any staff time. Specialists (even Whittards) are probably the best bet to buy from, as they are simply better informed, and will be keener to keep you happy.
8. Finally, if Gary comes up with anything here, take notice! We got given a breadmaker in the summer, and he was right about that. Ours produces a perfect facsimile of a Tesco's nothing-loaf. It is however, fabulous for making pizza dough while we're at the pub.
Best;
Mark
(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)
[This message was edited by Mark Ellis-Jones on TUESDAY 10 December 2002 at 09:38.]
Plenty of ideas above, none of which I have any direct experience with. I like the sound of Mark L's Krups, but if interested I would want to take it apart in the shop to see how much plastic was close to its heating element(s), and how easy it was to descale. These factors, I suspect, will be the ones which will dictate it's lifespan. Frankly, I don't think 10 years is good enough for kitchen goods.
Anyway, we thought long and hard about coffee makers a couple of years ago, and we noticed the following:
1. The only form of coffee which actually requires any machinery is espresso, because its method requires pressure, and you need some sort of pressure-capable vessel in order to make it. You can get a basic stove-top espresso pot for about 20 quid, which will enable you both to live with the stuff and make sure you like it. We like it a lot, but eventually decided that we would keep espresso "special" and not have it at home. We always take the espresso pot camping, though.
2. If you go for an espresso capability, be aware that some "domestic" machines only take pre-manufactured "pods" of coffee. This makes clearing up easier, but IME seriously compromises the whole thing and maybe should be avoided. Also, most of them seem to offer only a half-hearted attempt to provide dome method of warming the cups before pouring -- doing this properly makes a big difference.
3. I have 2 clients who were early adopters of the Dualit espresso device. IMHO it is a blatant attempt to trade on the reputation of their once-excellent toasters. It is flimsy, tinny, leaky, hard to clean and generally inferior to what one would expect from them. Some owners have been advised not to use the double spout as the design is so flawed that you end up with coffee everywhere but in the cups.
4. As with everything else, "source first" reaps real benefits. Having not spent money on an espresso machine, we blew it instead on a coffee roaster, so that we can buy green beans (which keep for ages), roast them in small quantities, grind them fresh and have superb cafetiere coffee. This is in every way vastly superior to any other type of coffee made from supermaket vacu-pack. The roasting cycle takes less than 10 mins, and generates no manual washing-up. We also bought a Britta filter jug, which hugely improves both coffee and tea, and stops the kettle scaling up. If you end up with a machine which boils or heats water, you can't ignore the scale problem.
5. Budget for good storage. the best way we have found for storing roasted beans is a Vac-U-Vin coffee jar at room temperature. You put the lid on and punp out the air, which both seals the lid and stores the contents in a near vacuum. Makes a big difference.
6. Grinding is controversial. There is a school of thought which states that any electric grinder is bad news as they expose the beans to too much friction, scorching the oils in the beans. Can't comment, but certainly most electric grinders that I have looked at are major design bodges, IMHO. The more celebrated and expensive the grinder brand (Gaggia come to mind), the more brainless seems to be their design. Most of them involve a lot intricately-shaped clear acrylic, which of course will become charged with static, and swiftly covered with a film of fine coffee dust. This then goes stale, and contaminates your next brew. Washing the whole thing each time is more hassle than using a hand grinder -- but these latter have a set of issues all their own. If anyone knows of one which fails to get a load of coffee between the drawer and its housing (going all over the worktop when you pull out the drawer), I'd love to know about it. We have an old Braun electric with an acrylic lid -- you only have to wipe the bowl (smooth stainless, no screw heads) with a kitchen towel and rinse the lid. It gets used in 1 second bursts, and works quite well. There is also a groove around its base which allows easy storage of the mains flex, something I've never seen on any of the competition.
7. John Lewis are good for rummaging with the kit to get a feel for what's what. You can usually do this without taking up any staff time. Specialists (even Whittards) are probably the best bet to buy from, as they are simply better informed, and will be keener to keep you happy.
8. Finally, if Gary comes up with anything here, take notice! We got given a breadmaker in the summer, and he was right about that. Ours produces a perfect facsimile of a Tesco's nothing-loaf. It is however, fabulous for making pizza dough while we're at the pub.
Best;
Mark
(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)
[This message was edited by Mark Ellis-Jones on TUESDAY 10 December 2002 at 09:38.]
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by seagull
"Mrs Mick now regards me as a somewhat pleasant and charming chap whereas she once regarded me, in coffee drinking days, as a sour faced old git."
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by Andrew L. Weekes
More later when I have time, but I suspect you're not wanting an Espresso machine and it's complication.
Filter / drip pots all make very poor coffee, a cafetiere is much better.
For the best brewed, non-espresso, coffee though with the ease of use a filter / drip machine brings you have to get a Vacuum coffee maker.
The Bodum Santos pot I have, despite it's dodgy looks, makes the best non-espresso coffee you'll get anywhere, but as Mark says, source first - good raw material in = good coffee out.
To satisfy you're penchant for fine delicate things you can even get glass manual vacuum brewers, that work from a small spirit burner - they used to be common in the finer restaurants for brewing at the table.
The Bodum is fantastic though, put water in the bottom half, coffee in the top and you can have up to 12 cups of superb coffee (a real labour saver for guest / parties) in about the same time it takes to boil a kettle.
If you have any outlet shops near you, they are being discounted at present for around £50 (they used to sell for over £100).
Andy.
P.S. Re: grinders only two things to remember - never buy a blade grinder (looks like a liquidizer inside) as yopu have no control over grind or particle size, which is essential for control of the final product. Buy a good burr grinder that grinds between two metal burrs. The conical types are generally the best, but some flat plate burrs are good - they need sharp edges to slice the bean, not mash it to a pulp as many cheaper one do.
You can, if you drink it speedily enough, get excellent quality ground coffee these days, which may be easier if you do not drink much.
Filter / drip pots all make very poor coffee, a cafetiere is much better.
For the best brewed, non-espresso, coffee though with the ease of use a filter / drip machine brings you have to get a Vacuum coffee maker.
The Bodum Santos pot I have, despite it's dodgy looks, makes the best non-espresso coffee you'll get anywhere, but as Mark says, source first - good raw material in = good coffee out.
To satisfy you're penchant for fine delicate things you can even get glass manual vacuum brewers, that work from a small spirit burner - they used to be common in the finer restaurants for brewing at the table.
The Bodum is fantastic though, put water in the bottom half, coffee in the top and you can have up to 12 cups of superb coffee (a real labour saver for guest / parties) in about the same time it takes to boil a kettle.
If you have any outlet shops near you, they are being discounted at present for around £50 (they used to sell for over £100).
Andy.
P.S. Re: grinders only two things to remember - never buy a blade grinder (looks like a liquidizer inside) as yopu have no control over grind or particle size, which is essential for control of the final product. Buy a good burr grinder that grinds between two metal burrs. The conical types are generally the best, but some flat plate burrs are good - they need sharp edges to slice the bean, not mash it to a pulp as many cheaper one do.
You can, if you drink it speedily enough, get excellent quality ground coffee these days, which may be easier if you do not drink much.
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by max in hampshire
Hi Mick
Oh dear you are really heading for trouble with this. As I found out, making good coffee is as complex as listening to good music, or at least there are as many coffee experts and opinions as there are audio experts and opinions!
My 3p worth follows!
We have had a Gaggia Classic for about two years and we are pleased with it. I use it 90% for espresso but it makes a good latte and cappuccino too. But the Rancilio Sylvia is generally considered to be better, as has already been pointed out, more money though. If you are interested in either we bought ours direct from Italy from best-of-italy.com. We saved well over GBP100 and the service was excellent. Great fun tracking the parcel across Europe on UPS too. We also bought a Gaggia grinder from them. Again excellent service and savings. Well worth a look at their site.
You simply must use beans that you grind yourself just before use and, yes, you must only consider a burr grinder. Coffee I buy from a great guy and his wife in Aylesbury over the net at hillandvalleycoffee.co.uk, again excellent service and good coffee. Also, very important this, they only send freshly roasted coffee. The roast date is crucial. The fresher the roast the better, and the differences are very noticeable. Whatever machine you go for you should most definitely grind your own and I would give these people a go - much better than supermarkets, Starbucks or Whittards,
You could look at the coffee newsgroup before you buy I used to follow it for a while before I bought the Gaggia I think it’s alt.coffee – but beware they are as fanatical as Naimites!
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Max
Oh dear you are really heading for trouble with this. As I found out, making good coffee is as complex as listening to good music, or at least there are as many coffee experts and opinions as there are audio experts and opinions!
My 3p worth follows!
We have had a Gaggia Classic for about two years and we are pleased with it. I use it 90% for espresso but it makes a good latte and cappuccino too. But the Rancilio Sylvia is generally considered to be better, as has already been pointed out, more money though. If you are interested in either we bought ours direct from Italy from best-of-italy.com. We saved well over GBP100 and the service was excellent. Great fun tracking the parcel across Europe on UPS too. We also bought a Gaggia grinder from them. Again excellent service and savings. Well worth a look at their site.
You simply must use beans that you grind yourself just before use and, yes, you must only consider a burr grinder. Coffee I buy from a great guy and his wife in Aylesbury over the net at hillandvalleycoffee.co.uk, again excellent service and good coffee. Also, very important this, they only send freshly roasted coffee. The roast date is crucial. The fresher the roast the better, and the differences are very noticeable. Whatever machine you go for you should most definitely grind your own and I would give these people a go - much better than supermarkets, Starbucks or Whittards,
You could look at the coffee newsgroup before you buy I used to follow it for a while before I bought the Gaggia I think it’s alt.coffee – but beware they are as fanatical as Naimites!
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Max
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by Edo Engel
quote:Mark,
4. As with everything else, "source first" reaps real benefits. Having not spent money on an espresso machine, we blew it instead on a coffee roaster, so that we can buy green beans (which keep for ages), roast them in small quantities, grind them fresh and have superb cafetiere coffee.
Do any of the mentioned Italian brands sell these roasters?
Cheers,
Edo
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by John Sheridan
quote:
If you are interested in either we bought ours direct from Italy from best-of-italy.com. We saved well over GBP100 and the service was excellent.
Unfortunately their bargain prices are no longer... unless they decide to have a sale.
we've recently purchased a Gaggia classic. Best-of-italy has them for around £220. I know when I first started looking earlier in the year they were under £200...
We ended up buying online from UK supplier with the thinking that should any problems occur it will cost a lot less to send for service. If I remember correctly we paid around £240.
Makes great coffee when you get it right... I need more practice as I'm not particularly consistent yet.
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
Hello Mick
Has Sue tried Instant Coffee lately? I am a bit of a caffeine freak and have been pretty impressed by Nescafe Expresso instant. The stuff actually tastes pretty good, develops a crema - the bit on top - but I usually drink it white.
Worth a go?
Regards
Mike
Has Sue tried Instant Coffee lately? I am a bit of a caffeine freak and have been pretty impressed by Nescafe Expresso instant. The stuff actually tastes pretty good, develops a crema - the bit on top - but I usually drink it white.
Worth a go?
Regards
Mike
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by max in hampshire
John
Not sure if you are in London or Sydney but, regarding servicing costs, one of the reasons we went for Gaggia is that they are well supported in the UK in Halifax. Should a return be necessary it is not very expensive. They also supply all the spare bits.
Shame about the prices on Best of Italy I will take your word for that I have not visited the site for some time. Your 240 sounds good I think I saw them in John Lewis at 299 last week
Cheers
Max
Not sure if you are in London or Sydney but, regarding servicing costs, one of the reasons we went for Gaggia is that they are well supported in the UK in Halifax. Should a return be necessary it is not very expensive. They also supply all the spare bits.
Shame about the prices on Best of Italy I will take your word for that I have not visited the site for some time. Your 240 sounds good I think I saw them in John Lewis at 299 last week
Cheers
Max
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by John Sheridan
quote:
Not sure if you are in London or Sydney but, regarding servicing costs, one of the reasons we went for Gaggia is that they are well supported in the UK in Halifax.
I'm in London. Not sure if it's the case with Gaggia but as a lot of electrical products only have 'local' warranties - ie they are only covered by warranty in the country in which they're purchased - we decided to source it locally even though it cost a little more.
Yes, the John Lewis price is £299 but most shops are selling them for £275.
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by Brian OReilly
We purchased a Pavoni Expresso machine about three years ago, also from "best-of-italy.com.
We bought it because it was the best looking one we could find (surely that's the most important thing ?). It's a chrome plated,hand pumped industrial type thing with pressure gauge, steam nozzle etc.
It makes great expresso (and cappuchino if you really like that sort of thing), but it is labour intensive. You have to fill the coffee filter with ground coffee and pump manually.
I think it's great but can't fully recomend it because of problems (which are probably endemic to the breed), namely that it is very sensitive to the amount of coffee you press into the filter. Too little and there is not enough resistance to produce the required pressure. You also have to reload the filter for each cup of coffee, which is OK unless you have ten guests over, who all want a cup, and the metal filter is still at 100deg C......
I like the challenge involved, but for convenience I would at least consider an automatic or "pod" type machine.
Regards,
Brian OReilly
We bought it because it was the best looking one we could find (surely that's the most important thing ?). It's a chrome plated,hand pumped industrial type thing with pressure gauge, steam nozzle etc.
It makes great expresso (and cappuchino if you really like that sort of thing), but it is labour intensive. You have to fill the coffee filter with ground coffee and pump manually.
I think it's great but can't fully recomend it because of problems (which are probably endemic to the breed), namely that it is very sensitive to the amount of coffee you press into the filter. Too little and there is not enough resistance to produce the required pressure. You also have to reload the filter for each cup of coffee, which is OK unless you have ten guests over, who all want a cup, and the metal filter is still at 100deg C......
I like the challenge involved, but for convenience I would at least consider an automatic or "pod" type machine.
Regards,
Brian OReilly
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by MarkEJ
quote:
Do any of the mentioned Italian brands sell these roasters?
Not as far as I know. Ours is the "Precision Coffee Roaster" by Hearthware. There is an "outside USA" link from this page which lists a Netherlands distributor. We got ours from Whittard in the UK -- it was 120 UKP about a year ago, but has now risen to 150 UKP (ouch).
One thing they don't tell you is that ideally, you need to be able to put the thing outside while it roasts, as it will make slightly more smoke than you really want in your house. We just put it under the garden table outside the back door, but it could be a real hassle if you don't have an outside mains socket. No, I haven't tried either a separate spur or uprating the case fuse...
The best thing is it's very quick and simple, and everything that needs washing can go in the dishwasher.
Also, there is now a serious drum roaster available, albeit at a price. This is the Alpenrost:
Details here.
Best;
Mark
(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by Madrid
If your wife prefers non-expresso coffee, I believe a Bodum "French" or "plunge" press offers an unbeatable combination of quality and ease-of-use.
If she wants expresso, I think the new generation of Nespresso machines are her best best. They are made by Krups or Saico to the Nestle specification. It´s true one is locked in to the Nespresso capsules, but they are actually pretty good (eg, Arabica and Mysore blends). These machines generate about 12 bar of pressure and produce a decent crema. Your wife will have to perfect her barista skills with a manual machine to get an expresso as consistently good.
If she wants expresso, I think the new generation of Nespresso machines are her best best. They are made by Krups or Saico to the Nestle specification. It´s true one is locked in to the Nespresso capsules, but they are actually pretty good (eg, Arabica and Mysore blends). These machines generate about 12 bar of pressure and produce a decent crema. Your wife will have to perfect her barista skills with a manual machine to get an expresso as consistently good.
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by Thomas K
You've all scared Mick away!
How a drip filter type machine managed to survive in a household that abounds with hedonist paraphernalia, a place brimful of exceptional taste, is beyond me.
Thomas
How a drip filter type machine managed to survive in a household that abounds with hedonist paraphernalia, a place brimful of exceptional taste, is beyond me.
Thomas
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by Andrew L. Weekes
If you decide to go the Epsresso route, do not buy a lever hand pump machine (Pavoni, Gaggia).
Whilst these are fantastic in the right hands, you'll throw more coffee than you drink whilst learning to judge it.
A pumped machine removes one variable, the grind then is pretty much the other, which you can control consistently with a good grinder.
Andy.
Whilst these are fantastic in the right hands, you'll throw more coffee than you drink whilst learning to judge it.
A pumped machine removes one variable, the grind then is pretty much the other, which you can control consistently with a good grinder.
Andy.
Posted on: 10 December 2002 by Mick P
Chaps
This is all good stuff, please keep it coming in.
We have a hand powered coffee grinder, slow but good, and a 3 Bodrum plungers, different sizes.
Many thanks
Mick
This is all good stuff, please keep it coming in.
We have a hand powered coffee grinder, slow but good, and a 3 Bodrum plungers, different sizes.
Many thanks
Mick
Posted on: 11 December 2002 by the other nickc
I went to Italy last year and picked up a few tips from the locals...
I use Lavazza coffee in a Bialetti Italian stove top coffee pot (Bialetti.it) the original type, which makes great expresso. If I want a Cappucino I then microwave some milk and froth it using the aerolatte milk frother (aerolatte.com) which is a splendid bit of kit approved by Lavazza. Works a treat and no need to go to all that expense.
Nick
I use Lavazza coffee in a Bialetti Italian stove top coffee pot (Bialetti.it) the original type, which makes great expresso. If I want a Cappucino I then microwave some milk and froth it using the aerolatte milk frother (aerolatte.com) which is a splendid bit of kit approved by Lavazza. Works a treat and no need to go to all that expense.
Nick
Posted on: 11 December 2002 by max in hampshire
Nick
Forgive me if this sounds pedantic but the bialetti do not actually make proper espresso because they cannot get up to the correct pressure. I used one for a long while thinking it was making espresso, if only because that is what is claimed for them. Then I saw the light and found the real thing. Just like finding Naim really!
Having said that I know, from spending much time in Italy, and having many Italian friends, that the bialetti is an essential item in virtually every Italian's kitchen. And they probably produce the vast majority of so called espresso that is drunk in Italy
But, now to be really controversial, IMO not many Italians know what constitutes proper espresso! (and virtually no Engish restaurants - and you can forget most branches of Starbucks too) I have found that it is actually hard to get a decent one in Italy and I have never had a good one in the UK.
Too many people, including many Italians, think that as long as coffee is strong, black, of short measure, and has had the water forced through the coffee by a pressure, it is espresso. It is not. The taste of a proper espresso is nothing like the nasty black, and nearly always with a hint of bitterness, concoction that is all too often served up as espresso. If there is one single crucial characterstic of a good espresso it is having a good crema. The bialetti will not produce this. There are other factors, of course, but get a good crema and you have got the others right.
If anyone is interested enough to want to know more fully what an espresso really is then I recommend the alt.coffee newsgroup I referred to in an earlier post.
Cheers
Max
Forgive me if this sounds pedantic but the bialetti do not actually make proper espresso because they cannot get up to the correct pressure. I used one for a long while thinking it was making espresso, if only because that is what is claimed for them. Then I saw the light and found the real thing. Just like finding Naim really!
Having said that I know, from spending much time in Italy, and having many Italian friends, that the bialetti is an essential item in virtually every Italian's kitchen. And they probably produce the vast majority of so called espresso that is drunk in Italy
But, now to be really controversial, IMO not many Italians know what constitutes proper espresso! (and virtually no Engish restaurants - and you can forget most branches of Starbucks too) I have found that it is actually hard to get a decent one in Italy and I have never had a good one in the UK.
Too many people, including many Italians, think that as long as coffee is strong, black, of short measure, and has had the water forced through the coffee by a pressure, it is espresso. It is not. The taste of a proper espresso is nothing like the nasty black, and nearly always with a hint of bitterness, concoction that is all too often served up as espresso. If there is one single crucial characterstic of a good espresso it is having a good crema. The bialetti will not produce this. There are other factors, of course, but get a good crema and you have got the others right.
If anyone is interested enough to want to know more fully what an espresso really is then I recommend the alt.coffee newsgroup I referred to in an earlier post.
Cheers
Max
Posted on: 11 December 2002 by Derek Wright
for a good expresso and or Cappucino go to Danny's Coffee stall in Portsmouth Commercial Road on market days.
http://www.danny.mcnulty.btinternet.co.uk/express.html
He often is at other events in the Pompey region
He is an active poster to the Alt.coffee newsgroup
Derek
[This message was edited by Derek Wright on WEDNESDAY 11 December 2002 at 20:21.]
http://www.danny.mcnulty.btinternet.co.uk/express.html
He often is at other events in the Pompey region
He is an active poster to the Alt.coffee newsgroup
Derek
[This message was edited by Derek Wright on WEDNESDAY 11 December 2002 at 20:21.]
Posted on: 11 December 2002 by Andrew L. Weekes
Here's a few from my shortcuts: -
Essential reading - http://www.lucidcafe.com/cafeforum/schomer1.html
Other goodies -
http://www.coffeekid.com/
Rancilio source -
http://www.coffeemachinecompany.co.uk/
Superb coffee -
http://www.hillandvalleycoffee.co.uk/
Essential reading - http://www.lucidcafe.com/cafeforum/schomer1.html
Other goodies -
http://www.coffeekid.com/
Rancilio source -
http://www.coffeemachinecompany.co.uk/
Superb coffee -
http://www.hillandvalleycoffee.co.uk/
Posted on: 11 December 2002 by bornwina
Go to see the girl with the foreign accent who works at Whittards in Woking is you can - a real rarity to receive absolutely perfect salesmanship. I traipsed round a few department stores but they don't know their arses from their elbows. I bought a Gaggia Classic which is great. 15 bar pressure is, I believe, the main criteria.
We paid £270, the girl thought milk thermometers a waste of time but a stainless milk jug worthwhile and we get 250g (I think) beans a month free coffee for a year.
[This message was edited by bornwina on THURSDAY 12 December 2002 at 00:21.]
We paid £270, the girl thought milk thermometers a waste of time but a stainless milk jug worthwhile and we get 250g (I think) beans a month free coffee for a year.
[This message was edited by bornwina on THURSDAY 12 December 2002 at 00:21.]
Posted on: 12 December 2002 by Madrid
I second the Hill and Valley as being perhaps the finest coffee available in the UK.
If you are in (or travel to) the US, I cannot recommend Peets (www.Peets.com) highly enough. IMHO, their aged Sumatras and blends (Major Dickasons, for instance) set the standard.
Enjoy,
Steven
If you are in (or travel to) the US, I cannot recommend Peets (www.Peets.com) highly enough. IMHO, their aged Sumatras and blends (Major Dickasons, for instance) set the standard.
Enjoy,
Steven
Posted on: 15 December 2002 by Mick P
Chaps
Mrs Mick has decided on the Gaggia Classic.
Before we buy.......what is it like to clean / maintain etc and are there any downsides to it.
Best price so far £249.00 inc del.
Regards
Mick
Mrs Mick has decided on the Gaggia Classic.
Before we buy.......what is it like to clean / maintain etc and are there any downsides to it.
Best price so far £249.00 inc del.
Regards
Mick