Coffee Makers

BOLLOCKS!!!!

Thats about the equivalent of saying the LP 12 is the only front end ever made.

I have countless horror stories about these and tried to operate a couple.

They make cold, piss poor espresso that is usually under extracted, they leak, and cant stretch milk properly.

They are the Bang and Olufsen of coffee machines sorry. Look good sound like shite.

The only domestic machine rated consistently best in the world is here.

www.laffare.co.nz/e61rocket.htm

Proper brass group and handles, commercial boiler and taps, anything else is just a toy.

Costs about the same as a hi-cap here but what the hell.

Bollocks to you aswell.

To make the ultimate Espresso coffee, you need to draw the water through the coffee at a pressure guided by yourself to give your required strength. An automatic machine cannot do this. One must find the ideal granual size, coupled with how much one compacts this into the filter holder coupled with the pressure that one pulls to produce the strength of coffee. To make an Espresso is an art. It takes time and patience to make the perfect coffee and cannot be replicated by automation. It is a dying art in Italy and very rarely found in Cafe's. It's equivalent to a bread being made by a machine or by hand.

The Rocket is a toy version of the Faema E61 which is one of the best Cafe units. This can produce many coffees time after time to a high standard, but not the best.

The Rocket is not even available in the UK.

The Pavoni is basically all brass with stainless heater element.

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They make cold, piss poor espresso that is usually under extracted

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I think you need to go on a coffee making course.

The Pavoni does have a toyish feel about it. The finish is garbage and the gauge is a bit tacky.

If you can suggest a better lever model, I'd be interested to hear.

P.S. Please make sure it would be available in the UK.

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Originally posted by Jonathan Hales:
BOLLOCKS!!!!

They make cold, piss poor espresso that is usually under extracted, they leak, and cant stretch milk properly.

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The Pavoni does have a toyish feel about it. The finish is garbage and the gauge is a bit tacky.

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Brian OReilly

The Rocket is a toy version of the Faema E61
I think you need to go on a coffee making course.

That is a crock as well.

The Rocket has been consistently rated the best domestic coffee machine in 'the whole damn milky way' period.

It is simply a down scaled version of a full commercial machine that has a full sized handle that actually gives the right resistance to pressure and can run a far bigger dispersion screen than any small machine possibly can (very important for extraction by the way, and I have been on a coffee making course and have professional barista manuals I use to brush up on)

Why you do you think the best commercial machines are automatic?

It isnt just for speed but consistency of pressure.

Hell, with all the other variables involved, who wants to chuck another one that involves the pressure applied by ones elbow?

It is a pity you cant buy the Rocket there.

It says a lot about how developed our coffee culture here and science behind beans and roasting that is the envy of the world along with our wine industry.

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The Rocket has been consistently rated the best domestic coffee machine in 'the whole damn milky way' period.

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I hardly think so, it only seems to be available in NZ.

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It says a lot about how developed our coffee culture here and science behind beans and roasting that is the envy of the world along with our wine industry.

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You have nice scenery there, but don't go over the top.

After reading your exaggereated claims and discourteous dross, I don't think you know what you're talking about.

I take it you have never been here?

Judging by the number of poms my employer has hired lately, it would seem they are here for more than just the scenery.

I may be in Advertising, but I know the difference between hyperbole and dealing purely off the facts, unlike the emotively based drivel you just wasted your time penning.

I absoutely know what I'm talking about. Coffee is an obsession of mine (along with a bunch of other vices)

Unless you have anything meaningful to contribute to what is simply robust discourse I strongly suggest you take your bat and ball and feck off!

count.d

I may have been more than a little bolshy here and I apolgise on reflection for my tone, but I am pretty passionate (like most things) about this and spent a longtime studying and using machines and learning the art of espresson making which has reached iconic proportions down under (we have coffee festivals here and an indecent concentration of cafes and coffee bars/roasteries in our city)

I have heard Brazilians and folk from Costa Rica who have left here and never had a good coffee since. We are very privilged in NZ to have this affliction and yes, while we have Starbucks most Kiwis have a love affair with the real thing (we have an E61 Rocket at work and I have one at home)

You would also have to concede that you did frame your response in the knowledge that you were bereft of knowledge on the subject and then stated emphatically, no questions asked that the Pavoni is the best machine and its operating method the best when clearly anyone who knows the slightest thing about coffee making knows this is just plain untrue.

I dont know of any other lever operated machines because I dont regard them as state of the art.

All the best.

Of all the obsessions I posess, coffe's not one of them - I don't drink it. I've been learning how to make a decent one, though - a necessity at my work, as we have a Wega Airy EVD-1. There are a bunch in my office with a similar devotion to Jonathan, in that they own barista manuals (and are not frightened to use them!)... aside from the machine (and the constant flood of bean deliveries), there's a great team-building aspect to the ritual of constructing a cup, along with all the necessary whooshing, buzzing and hissing. Just like a BT line, eh?

Our company intranet features extensive instructions on how to use, clean, and maintain the 'beast'. Oh, and notes on how to extract the best coffee. Sometimes, it seems, it isn't all about source first.

Jonathan, when my skills are up to it, you might care to visit and sample the 'standard fare'.

best

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Rico,

The jug is always boiled at 8 kent Terrace.

Just c'mon down ya hear!

Cheers,

Jono.

I've got a Gaggia "Coffee" and Reg Barber curved tamper, and the two together seem make a nice double-espresso. Perhaps I'm just easy to please, though.

-=> Picky Mickey <=-

Another case of "Flat Earth vs. Round Earth"?

I just realized that the contentious nature of the Flat versus Curved coffee tampers is quite similar to the battles waged in the audiophile world.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Anybody know any mind-blowingly interesting food mixer jokes ?
Fritz Von Microwaveovencolourtv

How do you get 50...no, I think I'll refrain from sharing this ethnic joke....

Phil

I have 2 friends who have Pavonis and I myself have a Pasquini Livia 90. The Pavonis can pull a beautiful shot, but not as consistently as the Livia or semi-auto/auto machines. This is due to operator error I'm sure. I use a 24 gram basket when pulling a 2 oz. ristretto. This makes for incredible creama. One must not rule out the importance of a good grinder AND using freshly, meaning within 10 minutes, ground beans. Mazzer mini is the one I use and it is fantastic. It allows for a very precise grind.

In Seattle, which claims to be the coffee capitol of the world, there is a place called Vivace. Hands down the best place for espresso in this city and I am sure it would rate in the world also. David Schomer is the owner and has written some books on the subject, and has had his La Marzocco machines modified to his specifications.

Flat tampers are a must for even water distribution imho.

Max

Hi,
I expect in the maxwell-house with machinery like that coffee is almost a science my old chum. Of course that classic joke I was looking for was as always, on me, being that the best coffee maker I've ever had, quite rightly left me years ago, AAAhhh.

Good Slurpin,
Fritz Von Teawithmilkughh

When I was in Costa Rica, I asked the locals what they drank.

The answer tended to be Nescafe.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and Happy

Max,

I have no idea what you're talking about, but I applaud your enthusiasm.

Do you use those beans eaten by that Malaysian monkey-rat-hedgehog thing that poops them out whole and nicely marinated?

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Originally posted by maxwellspeed:
One must not rule out the importance of a good grinder AND using freshly, meaning within 10 minutes, ground beans. http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/detailed/mazzermini is the one I use and it is fantastic. It allows for a very precise grind.

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I'm newly into this coffee thing, so I'm using an antique mill that I purchased a couple of years ago. It looks like this, except more of a dark copper color:

Its finest grind isn't quite fine enough for espresso, but it's all I have for the moment. If I stay with the hobby long enough, I'll be getting something better. The Mazzer Mini is definitely one of the contenders, although it's a bit tall to fit where I want it to go. Therefore, I'm also considering the purportedly superior, slightly more expensive Cimbali Junior, which will do a better job of fitting under my cabinets.

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Flat tampers are a must for even water distribution imho.

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I was surprised at how little curve there is in the Reg Barber curved tamper. When you consider how hard it is to apply consistent pressure from one shot to the next, I doubt that there's much difference between flat and curved. There are also those who suggest that curved tampers are good for curved baskets (which applies to my Gaggia).

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Best domestic coffee maker that I have come across is the Saeco Vienna. I bought one in hungary for a fraction of the UK price. It operates at high pressue 14bar but low temperature, thus giving a close approximation to Italian coffee bar espresso. The only reason I ever heard of them was through an advertisment featuring Mario Cipolini (sp?). BIke rider arrives home after grueling bike ride to be met by gorgeous woman offering freshly made coffee from Saeco machine. I bought the machine but do not yet have the legs or Italian woman.

Mr. Fritz said,

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with machinery like that coffee is almost a science my old chum

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A bit of science and a bit of art neither of which I am very proficient.


Ludwig,
Those beans are way too much $$$ for my tastes. Speaking of taste, I would be curious to try a cup, just on someone else's dime. I actually get my beans at Vivace where they are never over 2 days out of the roaster. Fresh indeed.

Mike,
That is a very cool grinder. The idea behind a flat tamper is that the water disperser in the group head of a machine is flat. You want the top of the grind in the basket to also be flat so that the water hits it evenly across the top. And, you want the grinds within the tamper, which I will now call a puck, to be evenly tamped pressure wise throughout, so the water penetrates the puck evenly. Or something like that...

Honestly, I only have 1 2oz. ristretto in the morning and that is it. It is what drags me out of bed.