Water Pump...

Posted by: DaveBk on 11 December 2009

I've had better days... The story started on Wednesday night as I drove through the nether end of Bradford trying to find my hotel when the sat nav gave up as half the roads it thought existed had been dug up for a new development. Turning to my trusty iPhone in case it had nore up to date maps I began to make my way in vaguely the right direction. Approaching a mini roundabout at about 30mph my dashboard turned red with a 'battery warning', bugger I thought but carried on only to find that a more appropriate warning could have been 'power steering failed' - it was mildly exciting to hawl a E320 round a tight corner when I was least expecting it...!!!

After limping to my hotel and parking on a flower bed as tight manoeuvring was now longer an option I discover that the poly V belt has come off. This was replaced at a service 6 weeks ago so I'm rather annoyed at the apparent shoddy workmanship. The next day I negotiate with Mercedes to take to my car to the nearest dealer - this is where it gets interesting...

The dealer rings me back to tell me my water pump has failed - £150 for the pump, £600 to fit it... not shoddy workmanship after all, just normal ware and tare. I agree to pay the bill and the work is scheduled for today - I'm hoping at this point I can drive home. I get a call this afternoon that goes like this:

Hello, is that Mr Burke?

Yes, I glad you're calling - have you got good news for me?

Urrr No, you see the water pump, well it's kinda disintegrated...

And....

Well, I'm holding about half of the impeller in my hand.

Where's the other half?

It's in bits, somewhere inside the engine.

That does not sound good, what do you suggest?

Sorry sir, I've not finished yet, you see when it disintegrated it gouged great chunks out of the housing... This is the timing cover and will need replacing too.

How much?

(tapping sound on keyboard) The part's about £170...

And the fitting?

Well....... it's a big job.... could be 15 hours... that'll be £1400 minimum....

Ahhhh..... how much?

Plus VAT. And the £800 for the pump.

What about all the bits of metal in the engine?

Well, most likely when we put it all back together one will come free and bugger up the pump again.... would you like us to proceed?

Urrr No...

Would you like to speak to our sales dept?

The net result of this is a broken car, uneconomical to repair ( 6 years old, and 120k on the clock) and I'm stuck in Bradford.

I ring the Mrs to explain the situation... first reaction.... "Is this some kind of scheme to get a new car!!!!!"

No sympathy!

Posted on: 11 December 2009 by DAVOhorn

Wow,

a bit like this piggy went to market.

Is it cheaper to repair the car or buy a new one?

Still the thought of numerous test drives in a wide variety of cars is appealing.

get a Porsche, damn forgot they are water cooled too . Used to be air cooled in the good old days.

Get a cheap heap and upgrade the HiFi instead!.

David

Posted on: 11 December 2009 by BigH47

£100 an hour for hammer wielders? Perhaps they are gold hammers? 6 hours to change a water pump?
Perhaps they fly to Germany to pick it up eh?
I've never worked out how a for instance 2 litre Merc engine costs more to fix or service per hour than a Ford or Vauxhall. Perhaps the engineering on a Ford or Vauxhall is better, allowing a more efficient access.

Posted on: 11 December 2009 by shoot6x7

Have the car towed back to your dealership and have them take a look at it and give you their opinion. I assume that you have a relationship with them ?

My A4 is a '98, so made in '97. I still take it to the dealer because I have an excellent service advisor there. She's actually become the VW service manager but she still looks after some of the Audis (customers she likes).

To cut a huge story short, I needed a new steering rack, $1,800 for the part, let alone labour costs, I also needed suspension parts replaced - the kit cost $2,000. Now I've been unemployed for 5 months, I don't have that sort of cash.

So this is what she did for me - Audi refurbed rack and arm, one suspension piece (the one that really needed replacing) all for $2,250. I also got 10% discount on the labour rate.

Audi (and at least BMW) have a discretionary fund to help out people in your situation.

In todays day and age, service departments are fishing for big jobs or new car sales.

In my situation, my advisor new that if I couldn't afford the job, my A4 would have stayed on my driveway indefinitely or when I eventually get a new job, pay of debt and then afford to get it fixed. She new that this was a defining moment. If she didn't help me, I was done with Audi and VW, and she sees me as a lifer, she wants me to be happy in an Audi or a VW.

Also, you could talk to the independant German car specialists, they might do the job cheaper ...

Posted on: 12 December 2009 by Symonds14

Ha! This is exactly what has happened to my Audi A6 3.0 TDI Avant. Its been in the garage for 8 weeks now whilst we negotiated' with Audi UK a 'goodwill' gesture of 50% of the cost. Still the up side is that I have been ploughing miles (3800 at the last count) on their loan A6 Allroad, so at least mine will have fewer miles that it would have normally.
Wonder if they use the same pump?

Posted on: 12 December 2009 by northpole

I do not understand how after an official MB dealership has diagnosed the problem of a failed pump, they would start the car up resulting in damage far in excess of the original problem.

Did they do so at risk? If so, I presume it was at their risk. Why should you be incurring more than the original cost for the repair works? In your position I would be seeking a very clear cut explanation from the dealer and MB UK.

And I presume that they will also be providing you with a courtesy car in the meantime until they sort this mess out.

Peter

Posted on: 12 December 2009 by Stephen Tate

I would of thought an impeller to be made from rubber not metal for obvious reasons

Posted on: 12 December 2009 by Guinnless

Hi DaveBK,

Sorry to hear of your plight.

The impellers are normally aluminium alloy or plastic these days and not likely to cause much damage even if they did break up suddenly (not likely IMHO).

Given the dealers description of "mass destruction" I'd be expecting to see coolant and oil on the floor (was there any?).

Pop into the dealers and take some photos if you can of the alleged damage and post back here.

Cheers
Steve

Posted on: 12 December 2009 by DaveBk

There was plenty of cooling fluid leaking out when I stopped so it does look like the bearing failed. The car is currently at a dealer in Bradford, and I'm back home near Milton Keynes so limited opportunity for photos. It's annoying, but I was planning to change the car in 3 to 6 months time so it's just a case of bringing this forward. The transmission had begun to judder a little and there were a few other minor issues developing. I visited my local dealer this morning and they will be arranging to transport the car back and give me their opinion, but I've already decided to trade what's left of it in against a new model. A new shiny black E350 sport will hopefully arrive soon

Posted on: 12 December 2009 by stephenjohn

Cars cost money which ever way you look at it. There are two options, either go for the most enjoyment then you don't mind paying [perhaps that's what the new E350 is?] or ...er... keep paying and don't enjoy it

Posted on: 12 December 2009 by BigH47

Why does the timing cover need replacing surely the timing chain doesn't run in the cooling fluid.

Posted on: 12 December 2009 by u5227470736789439

My 1989 Volvo has yet to have a spanner applied to the engine except the oil drain plug and to replace the cam-shalt-belt, which two jobs are of course routine service works costing tens of £s.

German cars are not the best.

Get a Ford for efficiency and innexpensive repairs, or a Volvo for effieicncy and inexpensive repairs, and a very long life.

My grandfather bought a new [1958] Mercedes to replace a Morris Oxford [MO series, 1948 Station Wagon] and sold the Mercedes after 18 months - hopeless brakes, would not start, and drank petrol like a fish consumes water. In place of the Merc he bought the first of three AMC Rambler Classics. Sadly the Mercedes has been over-rated for more than half a century.

ATB from George

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Guinnless

quote:
Originally posted by BigH47:
Why does the timing cover need replacing surely the timing chain doesn't run in the cooling fluid.

The pump fits either onto or into the timing cover (not familiar with this engine so I don't know which) and as the pump bearing has collapsed the pulley of the pump has gouged into the timing cover.

Cheers
Steve

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Guinnless

quote:
Originally posted by DaveBk:
There was plenty of cooling fluid leaking out when I stopped so it does look like the bearing failed. The car is currently at a dealer in Bradford, and I'm back home near Milton Keynes so limited opportunity for photos. It's annoying, but I was planning to change the car in 3 to 6 months time so it's just a case of bringing this forward. The transmission had begun to judder a little and there were a few other minor issues developing. I visited my local dealer this morning and they will be arranging to transport the car back and give me their opinion, but I've already decided to trade what's left of it in against a new model. A new shiny black E350 sport will hopefully arrive soon

So an excuse to upgrade then, this does sound familiar on this forum...

I'm in agreement with George here. People in the UK tend to think that Merc, VW etc are some sort of premium brand and therefore pay a premium price.

Unfortunately if you want rear wheel drive you are rather limited these days.

Cheers
Steve

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Stephen Tate

In the boating world Volvo are the biggest by far ripoff merchants going!!! Pile of crap marinised car/lorry engines.

Think of a stupid price and then triple it!!

I agree that german cars are over engineered and that Merc dealers are one of the worst going.

If you want trouble free motoring/dealer service, there is only one make in my book - Toyota.

You won't see news journalists, Taliban, film crews ect... the world over use anyting but. Certainly not Range Rovers that's for sure!!

Look at that Hilux still on Top Gear

Rant over...

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by BigH47

Toyota reliable maybe, but they haven't got any styling, your just as likely to fall asleep going to your car.

BTW in the summer we had to deliver a hire car to a Toyota garage and over heard the service manager explaining a quite considerable bill to a customer, same old bullshit that I'd heard in every other garage, I guess it's all about perceptions.

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Guinnless

quote:
Originally posted by BigH47:
BTW in the summer we had to deliver a hire car to a Toyota garage and over heard the service manager explaining a quite considerable bill to a customer, same old bullshit that I'd heard in every other garage, I guess it's all about perceptions.

Plus without knowing the background it's impossible to make a judgement. He may have got a large bill because lack of care under a previous owner, or even another garage not doing the work properly. For example it's common on FWD V6s for the 'awkward bank' plugs not to get changed.

A mobile tuning 'expert' with 30 years experience had messed up the ignition timing on my Range Rover V8(before I bought it) by timing the engine on number two cylinder instead of number one.

I contacted the previous owner(Ian) to let him know that his tuner was a muppet and he said, "funny that my Disco V8 is only doing 8 to the gallon and he did the tuning on that too".

I decided to go back top Ian's and not only was the timing set on number two also but the leads had been swapped round to try to get it running smoothly! All this had cost £170!
Ian was so chuffed he gave me a mint condition factory Workshop Manual cos I wouldn't take any money for doing it.

Anyway back to aligning my paddle clutch in the cold <brrr>

Cheers
Steve

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by fatcat

Does the V-Belt drive the water pump. If so, it is possible the bearing failure was caused by incorrect tensioning of the belt. You could try to pin the blame on the garage that carried out the service.

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by garyi

ford for inexpensive repairs haha!

One suspension rear arm with fitting 650 quid.

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Guinnless

quote:
Originally posted by garyi:
ford for inexpensive repairs haha!

One suspension rear arm with fitting 650 quid.

Not exactly a regular replacement item

Given the complexity of modern FWD rear axle and suspension assemblies I wouldn't say that was too bad especially when £100 of that would be VAT.

How much of the cost was the arm itself? If you can't remember tell me the model and I'll look it up.

The rear suspension arms are original on my Ford Granada and that's over three decades old.

Cheers
Steve

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Tony Lockhart

Focus clutch and flywheel £900. And he's still driving a Focus. Misery.
I've driven and owned a fair number of makes, and our Golf (MkIV) and Bora are just pleasant places to be. Not the greatest cars ever, obviously, but out of warranty fairly cheap to maintain. I did the last oil and filter change on the Bora (TDi 130) myself with an oil suction thingy. The oil and filter were less than £30, and the oil filter is almost waist height on the engine..... A dream!
Both cars have nee springs and dampers, are on 140 and 130k miles and are still less rattly/buzzy/depressing than a low mileage Vauxhall/Ford/Renault etc, etc.
I lust after a 530d, but then I'll lose the 57mpg average the Bora gives me!
Oh, and I'm six foot four, so even the Lexus offerings are too tight a fit, let alone the other mogadon Japanese saloons and hatches.

Go for the New Merc! I would if I could.

Tony

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Lontano

quote:
Originally posted by Tony Lockhart:
I lust after a 530d,

Go for 520D, all the power you could want, drives like a dream and on motorways, 50MPG

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Tony Lockhart

quote:

Go for 520D, all the power you could want, drives like a dream and on motorways, 50MPG

but I might as well stick with the Bora.......

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by DaveBk

I've driven Merc's for about 12 years - great cars IMO, although I'll agree that they are not cheap. Until this incident I have had no trouble, just regular servicing costs, so I'm a happy customer overall. The lesson here is just that when any car is out of warranty you are risking it going wrong - in my case suddenly. The parts costs are not the issue, but with the complexity of modern engines fitting them can be very difficult and time consuming - this is where the expense lies.

So the silver lining of this particular cloud is that I can indulge myself a bit earlier than I anticipated and get a new car.

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Chillkram

quote:
Originally posted by Lontano:
quote:
Originally posted by Tony Lockhart:
I lust after a 530d,

Go for 520D, all the power you could want, drives like a dream and on motorways, 50MPG

And only 18% tax which is why I'm ordering one as my next company car in April.

Posted on: 13 December 2009 by Lontano

quote:
Originally posted by Chillkram:
quote:
Originally posted by Lontano:
quote:
Originally posted by Tony Lockhart:
I lust after a 530d,

Go for 520D, all the power you could want, drives like a dream and on motorways, 50MPG

And only 18% tax which is why I'm ordering one as my next company car in April.

New 5 Series out in March, with the 520D arriving in June if you can hang on. It's a superb motor.