What to do for a source

HDX on order yet?

Jono

Hi Fred,

Do you play music from your computer via the Beresford Dac? A SqueezeBox may be a welcome addition for a less than £200. It would enable you to move the computer away from the listening area/room.

B&W 805s require a minimum of a 250/2.

Keith

Thanks for the replies.

I do play music through the beresford, although am currently away from home so have not done this through my naim setup. Look forward to comparing.

Not completely sure on what a squeezebox does so will investigate this.

I had heard the 805's needed power. 300 is out of my price range so a 250 may be the answer. Although would this require a separate power supply?

Had also considered a hicap to try on either CD5X and 202. Would this be required for a 250?

Thanks

Fred,

If you bought a 250/2 you will need a power supply for the 202. You could start off with a Flatcap2 which will power both your cd5x and your 202, although some will question the choice of a fc2 for a 202. The natural choice would be a hicap and a napsc for the 202 and a fc2 for the cd5x.

Keith

Freddie, I'm in a similar boat as you as I just bought the SN and my CD3.5 needs to be fixed. After listening the SN needs a minimum of a CD5x/FC2x and I'm sure your setup as well. However, despite the fact that I use Sonos for distributed audio and streaming this is not good enough even through the SN DAC. Given the fact that if I buy a CD player that I'm going to want a stand alone audiophile dac /server for high quality playback I'm really thinking HDX. I'll listen to NS01, but from what I've read/heard no comparison to HDX.

Thanks interesting to hear your thoughts. So you would say streaming through the SN DAC is not on the level of CD5X/FC2X? Seems to be a bad time to want to upgrade the source!

Freddie, IMO--no. I've even heard AD 24 bit recordings played back via professional software->fire wire -->Konnekt8-->SN DAC. Sounded pretty excellent, but still not up to a really good CDP. From your current system a HC/NAPSC for your 202 and a FC2x for the CD5x (do not like HC on the CD5x) would be compelling. Others will mention CDX2 and HC/NAPSC, but significantly more expensive. If you want fewer boxes and a DAC to use for SB/Sonos if you like, then I'd trade the 202/200 and go with SN/FC2x to power both SN and CD5x. Otherwise HC/NAPSC and FC2x ($3900 USD). Don't know your speakers at all.

Thanks Gary, the way you have suggested is the way I am inclined to go - HC/NAPSC/flatcap2x. I will most likely go for a 250mk2 at some point as my speakers are a pretty tough load (although I don't think this is urgent)and so the power supply would be needed when I do this.

Out of interest will a power supply help out with a tougher load?

I am not going for a new CDP until all becomes clearer. I have to admit I actually like having a lot of boxes! although I can see how a DAC would be useful...

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
I'm really thinking HDX. I'll listen to NS01, but from what I've read/heard no comparison to HDX.

Perhaps Naim could rework the NS01 a bit then (with a screen, not necessarily touch) and release it as the HD5x....

I currently use a Beresford in my Naim set-up

CDX2 XPS2 282 250/2 Allaes, when I have the chance to listen (no kids around etc) I will have a quality listen to an actual CD thru the CDX2...this doesn't happen very often, I would say 80% of my listening is now to full fat wav files from comp via Beresford into Naim setup...its very very good, would love to get into the realms of Naim quality and will do so when I can justify going beyond the £100 for Bereford.

I was really shocked when I heard the quality via the Beresford.

quote:

I was really shocked when I heard the quality via the Beresford.

Try a DAC for a few hundred more, you will bother with CD even less.

Steve S1,

What DAC would you recommend with my Naim setup

CDX2/XPS2/282/HiCap/Allaes

Many thanks

EmCee

quote:

Originally posted by EmCee:
Steve S1,

What DAC would you recommend with my Naim setup

CDX2/XPS2/282/HiCap/Allaes

Many thanks

EmCee

I tried to ask this question a few times before such discussions were banned from the Hifi Corner.

I didnt get very far. It always came back to, "just get an HDX... or a SN"
Neither of which are an option for me. Or even less helpful is the, "I just walk over and put a CD in my 555, replace the puck and enjoy". Worst yet is the "Just get an LP12 and forget all about the digital aspect".


If you really want to short list some DACS for demoing, i would recommend another forum. Headfi perhaps....

For some reason, talk about DACs frustrates most members here. Few seem to understand, or want to, why someone would want to use a PC as a source.

Also, given the small number of people who have the need for an external DAC within their Naim kit, I doubt you will get very meaningful responses.

I suppose this is a leftover from the days of transport/DAC as separate boxes. Something Naim it seems has never endorsed. I cant comment on that though as I have never owned either a transport/DAC combo, nor a Naim CDP.

As Adam has mentioned, in the past there was no use for a Naim DAC outside of the CDP, as it would have no use in a Naim system. Well times have changed as the SN, HDX and Naimnet prove.

Unfortunately, the "company line" does not yet support PC generated audio in the ways most of us need. Expect this to change dramatically when Naim does build an external DAC.

Then, and only then, can you expect people with 2000+ posts (Steve might be one of the few exceptions) to give you proper advice and respect your queries. There seems to be a direct correlation between number of posts and the desire to "suck up" to the admins and mods.

in any event.....
Whether or not someone thinks a particular DAC "matches well" with a Naim kit might be irrelevant.


A better question, possibly best asked elsewhere is, "I want this or that from my DAC experience. Any suggestions for a short list?"

quote:

Originally posted by EmCee:
Steve S1,

What DAC would you recommend with my Naim setup

CDX2/XPS2/282/HiCap/Allaes

Many thanks

EmCee

I've had a Lavry DA10 for a couple of weeks and I'm really enjoying it. I also have a Benchmark DAC1, either would be interesting for you to try. I prefer the Lavry in my system, the Benchmark sounds a little leaner and not quite as involving. But this is largely hair splitting compared to other factors like your room/speakers.

Steve

Troll - Not at all!

Quite simply - some forum members want a compute based front end (I don't) - and would like advice - not smug comments.

Hence, even though:
1) I'm current a Linn Sondek owner
2) Will be looking very closely at the HDX

I have sympathy with pc's sentiment...

w.r.t the original DAC question. I've no direct experience - BUT in addition to the Lavry I'd add the lessloss and Tron7 DAC's to my list of "must listen to" - that is if I ended up going that route.

Cheers

Richard

PC, I think I've addressed your question pretty well. I recently purchased a SN. While the external DAC is a great additional feature and really improves the sound quality of a Sonos (via co-axial input), what actually sold me on the SN was the caliber of the integrated amp itself while I listened to the following kit: SN/FC2x/Cd5x/SF Cremona auditor/Rel 305 sub. The external Dac became a bonus in my opinion. I have as I stated earler listened to the Sonos-->SN, and PC-->firewire-->Konnekt 8-->SN ext DAC both 16 bit and 24 bit and while this was better than the Sonos-->SN external Dac it paled in comparison to the Cd5x/FC2x. For that matter I thought the Sonos-->SN ext Dac (wav files)was not as good as listening to CDs played through my 1993 Arcam Delta CD player. The difference was immediately noticeable. While I still really enjoy the Sonos for its convenience and versatility (rhapsody, internet music,etc..) the audiophile quality that you want is not there. Of note I've also heard SB through same kits, but not MAC-->AE and my opinion is the same). All I'm trying to say is be careful with these external DACs as the intermediary source between the PC/NAS, Sonos, SB whatever IMO they do not measure up at all to the audiophile quality of a good CD player and your Naim kit. I know that you are aware from my posts that I am certainly not trumpeting the Naim horn. I tried the $2495 USD Bel Canto Dac 3 and it was the best, but still lacking and I'm not being critical here and I really wanted to like it. From what I've heard the CDP is still the best source and I am curious as to the quality of the NS01 and HDx. While Naim may come out with their own external DAC I would not expect it to be an inexpensive piece of electronics and would expect it to be closer in price to an NS01/Linn Akurate DS than a Linn Sneaky DS.

quote:

but not MAC-->AE and my opinion is the same

I suggest you do try that because, like you, I was frustrated with shortcomings in some combinations when compared with CD (CDS3). That certainly is not the case now. Latest operating systems and software have moved things on considerably.

Btw, the SuperNait is a good option for some, but if you already have a better amp(s) it's not an option. That is where Naim are missing a trick imo, but there are good alternatives.

Steve

Steve, could you please elaborate?

Did I understand your post correctly in that over time results with Mac to Airport Express to DAC have improved because of a newer Mac OS X and possibly a newer AirPort firmware?

CDS3 is quite steep to compare to, would you feel you achieve CD5(x) level?

rgds,
daddycool

DC,

I have played with various CD/DVD transport and DAC combinations. I have also tried directly connected PC computer - DAC combinations.

I persisted because I am already won over by the convenience and fun of handling my collection this way and secondly, I can see no particular reason why a lossless copy of CD should sound any worse than a CD. If anything, there ought to be sonic benefit in getting an error free copy (which you can do with the rip settings). Usually the error correction is required as a CD plays, of course.

Anyway, using a PC/CD transport and a direct connection to a DAC - didn't quite cut it. In a way that was obvious. That isn't to say it was not a decent listen, it just wasn't as good. That was mainly using a Benchmark DAC1. So I left it for a while.

Since then, I have bought the latest MacBook and ripped my CD collection using iTunes 7 to Apple lossless with correction. Now using Airport Express into the DAC1 I have got a much better result than when using CD transports (I also tried direct optical connection of MacBook to the DAC - it made no difference).

So I can't speak for previous versions of the Airport Express or OS X as it's my first Mac, but this latest one works superbly. I was always concerned at what I hear as a slightly lean, uninvolving presentation with the DAC1 in my system, so I tried the Lavry, which I am using now as I prefer it. The presentation is more to my taste, and makes differences with my CDP hard to detect to the point of not being worth worrying about. The Lavry has a greater sense of weight to the sound than the DAC1, and an extended top end that compares favourably - I'll leave the techies to worry about which is more accurate, it's a subjective presentation thing that is bound to vary in different circumstances.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Troll

Thanks buddy, how kind and helpful.

You are a very, very nice person.

i also think you could use a refresher on the Forum Rules pertaining to excessive quoting.

Gary1,

I agree with almost everything you are stating.

Which is exactly the reason why I would cherish a Naim external DAC... who could possibly do it any better.

But your assertion that a hard drive based sources are incapable of producing suitable "audiophile quality" music, I do not accept.

For example the HDX and Naimnet are making, or will make, many people very happy. Although not PC's in essence, the same pricinples are at work.

And I am NOT in any fashion expecting the PC>DAC system to better ANY of the Naim CDPs. But that does not imply that I dont want the best performance possible. Just because a $6000 CDP is better than this or that DAC, that does not reduce my need for one. Even If I had a CD555, i would still want to listen to many of my 24-96 recordings from my PC.

It is not a convenience thing, nor a computer geek thing. It is simply my reality. I have 3TB of music from all my CDs and vinyl, including hundreds of high-res recordings.

My only other option there would be to burn everything to DVDs and buy the Naim DVD player. I can imagine the grief I would get from the source-first crowd for that. And it is not an inexpensive option to simply play my 24/96s.


If I had a spare $5000 laying around, I would get a SN and not wonder about DAC anything. If i could sell the 102/180 and add to it the price im willing to spend on a DAC, and it came anywhere near the price of a SN, i would be on board.

But I dont, and I do have an existing kit. So for the meantime I need an external DAC, since my 102 does not have one.

Perhaps in the next year or so, I will buy a Supernait. But until then I will do what I can.


Lastly, i do not stream anything, I go directly from the USB to Toslink, to something with a DAC.
If i got a SN would not that be a sufficient DAC for this application?? Everyone seems to think so.

Therefore, I know that Hard Drive based music can be "audiophile grade". And perhaps Naim is the ONLY company who can suss this whole mess out. If so, I patiently await a Naim DAC.

In the meatime I must make do with what is possible.

Its kind of a baby/bath water type issue for me.

-thanks,
patrick

Steve,
Your review/sentiments on the Benchmark and Lavry, are exactly what some of us are seeking.

Thank you so much for posting your impressions.

This is how people are able to shortlist a few models and then demo to see if they are to their liking.

I wish i had $5000 for a SN. Even if i did, I would much rather spend that kind of money on a TT with a Stageline, HC, NAPSC for 102, CDX (at least), AND include in that budget a decent external DAC.

All of which I could do for the less $$$ than the price of the SN. If I already had a couple of nice sources like an LP12 and a CDX2, i am sure that the SN would be my next purchase.

I think many of the people who frequent this forum have bigger pockets than I, and must be retired, since it seems they dont work much.

But trust in knowing that there are a lot of us regular people who can only spend $5,000 on the entire kit.

I can only echo Steve S1 comments. I've recently went to a computer based system using a mac with itunes ripping in lossless streaming via a squeezebox duet, connected to a Perpetual technologies dac via optical to my 202/200.

This at the mo is equalling if not bettering my cdx2, and I expect some improvements to come once the dac runs in a bit more. I'm finding that you can definitely get audiophile quality from such a setup....I still prefer vinyl byut thats more to do with the medium than anything else.

A naim dac would be great but they can only work on so much stuff at once and its clearly not a priority at the mo for them.

Ryan

Ryan,

How VERY refreshing. A person who is vinyl first, and still utilizes HD based music.

While you might be a very rare breed, you are EXACTLY what we need more of.

A healthy balance and an objective view.

Cheers!

Thanks to all on this thread, we all agree its about the music and we are simply exploring options to access music with best available quality. It good that some of the snobbery and condescending comments from the main board have diminshed.

Its good that we can have an open debate about what is available, without having to go down the "must have" the latest and greatest Naim product.

We all have invested in Naim technology and at present Naim cannot resolve all our requiremensts so lets keep the debate going.

Kind regards

Martin