Series 5 on Fraim?

Hello Geoff,

quote:

---

My dealer mentioned that the Sound Organistion rack I'm currently using isn't really ideal because Naim equipment doesn't like metal and glass racks.

---

Hmmm ... incidentally, the Fraim uses metal and glass (and wood, of course). The SO is probably OK for the money -- since you only have three boxes, why don't you put them on the floor for a couple of days and then back onto the SO again to see how good it really is. If you can hear a marked difference, you will probably hear a much greater difference with the Fraim. Perhaps you can get a home dem -- difficult, but also quite important with stands.

I recently got a Fraim and have to say that it is really excellent in terms of sound, build quality and ease of use. I had a finite elemente before (not a bad rack, really), but it was no match for the Fraim -- sonically, I'd put the Hutter on a par with finite elemente.

Thomas

I think it's just possible your dealer might be trying to drum up some trade. One of the most popular supports for Naim Systems is Mana and what's that made of? - you guessed it, angle iron and glass. I don't use it as it looks horrible anyway, but trust your ears, if your system sounds good to you, just enjoy the music and don't be bamboozled into upgrades you don't need. If you do decide to buy a new support later then Quadraspire, Hutter and several others are also good with Naim kit. I don't expect you would gain any sonic advantage by swapping your RA super-cube for a Music Works block, but others may disagree. Most people seem to prefer the Grahams Hydra or a much lower-cost DIY version of same.

David

"Beauty is in the eye of the Beer-holder"

Hi Geoff

I now run the same system as you, save for the intros, which I will be placing on hutter. it will be the narrow width (500mm) and in cherry.

I have ordered mine from Phonography, and would recommend them. Phil March is an extremely helpful and knowledgeable chap, and good to deal with.

I shall report upon how it sounds in situ tomorrow...when it arrives...

Ben

Thanks for the reply's, you've been helpful.

Ben, I'd be interested to hear what you think of your new rack once it's been set up.

Geoff

I couldn't resist responding as I have a Quadraspire rack. I can't speak for the mixed reviews you may have seen in some places, but I am very happy with my Quadraspire Q4. In cherry it is a very attractive rack (even my wife likes the way it looks) and I was able to purchase a six-shelf unit with the upgraded (thicker) columns for less than the price of the Fraim base. I'm very pleased with the sound, although I certainly wouldn't be surprised if my system sounded better on the Fraim. Even if the Fraim is the greatest thing since sliced bread (and there seems to be many that think so), I personally would invest my money in upgrading my system up the Naim chain before I spent that kind of money on a rack, even the Fraim.

I'll try to get the dealer to loan me a Quadraspire rack, it was a review I saw in a recent edition of Hifi Choice.

I know you can't always (if ever) go on the opinions of magazine reviews but they said for £730 the Quadraspire Ref didn't seem to offer the sonic improvements to justify the price.

On the normal Quadraspire rack one person said it didn't improve much on a wooden coffee table they had from Ikea.

I'm certainly not against Quadraspire, so I think I'll just try it for myself (along with the music works block if I can)

Geoff

Geoff,
Go and speak to Andrew at AudioRepublic on Otley Road, Headingley, Leeds. Thanks to his advice, I have a standard Quadraspire rack and (recently acquired) Musicworks block; they and Naim all go well together.
Steve D

I'm with Tom and Ben with the Hutter Rack.

It's reasonable value, easier to build, Hides your cables, looks good and sounds good! .....

I didn't bother auditioning others but if you have the time then have a audition between a couple of different racks.

...sounds marvelous on Fraim.

Weighing against Series 5 on Fraim is that the Series 5 stuff also sounds quite good off Fraim.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

...sounds marvelous on Fraim.

Weighing against Series 5 on Fraim is that the Series 5 stuff also sounds quite good off Fraim.

Also, why do people consider 112/150 as 5-series? Or do they?

The 112/150 replace both the 92/90 and 72/140 combos and were released about the same time as the 5-series (CD5/Nait 5), but I'd like to think the 112/150 has more in common - and is possibly better than - the 72/140.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Geoff wrote:

quote:

---

I know you can't always (if ever) go on the opinions of magazine reviews but they said for £730 the Quadraspire Ref didn't seem to offer the sonic improvements to justify the price.

On the normal Quadraspire rack one person said it didn't improve much on a wooden coffee table they had from Ikea.

---

Sorry I missed the review in HiFi Choice, but it looks like you are saying that the reviewers said that the sound of the Q4 Reference table was the same as a coffee table from Ikea?

Can someone confirm this and maybe provide a quote or two if possible from the review? Thanks.

Greg - 112/150 is part of the 5-series.

Sorry, this was a bit misleading from me, the fairly negative Quadraspire ref review was in Hifi choice (I think it was issue 240 or 239). I've got a copy at home so I can post it this afternoon if you want.

The Quadraspire Q4 comparison to the coffee table I mentioned was a personal review from someone who bought one ....here's the link:
http://www.audioreview.com/Racks&Stands/Quadraspire/MPL_1162_1592crx.aspx

Regards

Geoff

quote:

---

Sorry, this was a bit misleading from me[...]The Quadraspire Q4 comparison to the coffee table I mentioned was a personal review from someone who bought one ....here's the link:
http://www.audioreview.com/Racks&Stands/Quadraspire/

---

No worries Geoff! Yes, please do post comments from the HiFi Choice Q4 Reference review when time allows. FWIW, it would be interesting to see what they have to say.

I took a look at the link you provided for the comments posted over on AudioReview.com for the Quadraspire Q4. The coffee table reference was actually made by "Top Cat," who is a Forum member! Small world. His current Forum profile shows a Quadraspire Reference rack and wallshelf and Mana Custom Gravitas stands. I've sent him a PM so hopefully he will join this discussion.

In his AudioReview.com post from Sept '01 on the Quadraspire Q4, John wrote:

quote:

---

Summary:
I bought this in the beginning of 2000. It looked good and was easy to assemble. However, it really didn't improve the sound of my audio gear significantly compared to the sound I had when the same gear was stacked on a pine coffee table!

Quite simply, at the price it is pretty furniture, but compared to the superlative Mana system it is musically dull, smears detail and results in an insipid, lethargic presentation which does nothing for the musicality of the gear on it. Which is fine for background listening; I was relatively satisfied (not ecstatic) until I heard what a Mana wallshelf did for my LP12. I quickly realised that the Mana system was in a different league in performance terms and luckily sold the QS for a reasonable price.

I never looked back!

Strengths:
Reasonably good looking stand which is easy to assemble

Weaknesses:
Dull sounding, smears detail, wobbles and basically send you to sleep with its lethargic presentation.

Similar Products Used:
Mana system, Target, Home-made stands

---

Thanks Josh!

Not sure the review available on the HiFi Choice site for the Q4 Ref is the same as Geoff is talking about...

FWIW:

HiFi Choice Q4 Reference review

HiFi Choice Q4 review

HiFi Choice Clearlight Aspek review

Geoff, were you ever able to get a QS on loan from your dealer?

-regards

Hi, well I thought if I'm looking at the Quadraspire Ref at £730 then should I save a bit longer and get a 3 shelf Fraim which most people seem to recommend. I'm a bit indicisive so I'm going to save a bit longer and then I'll have more options when I visit the dealer.

Here's parts of the review from issue 240 of Hifi Choice it's the Q4 Ref with the large hole in the middle of each shelf and costs £730. I suppose it wouldn't be right to copy the review word for word (for copyright), but it goes along these lines .....
doesn't add too much of it own character (adds slight warming of sound, taking an edge off sounds like the piano)
it's nice with voices, but not so good with bright instruments
the hole in each shelf makes only a moderate difference to resonant characteristics
the decoupling used is only affective in a limited way (the top shelf is decoupled further and is spiked) ....but vibration is quite apparent throughout the stand.
because of the 5Hz wobble it's not really suited to turntables.
It got 3 out of 5 for sound, 4 features, 4 build, 3 value - overall they say its smart and reasonably efficient but seems very expensive for its attainments.

I actually quite like the look of that Clearlight Aspek, I wander if a quick post on the Pink Fish Media site may find someone who's got one!? Here's a link to the What Hifi review of it:
http://www.audiophilecandy.com/review.asp?windex=31&pcode=I-CLE-20000CH

Regards

Geoff

Geoff, I know where you can get a S/H Fraim if you're interested.

Hi Bruce

I've just sent you an e-mail

Regards

Geoff

GregB

quote:

---

Also, why do people consider 112/150 as 5-series? Or do they?

---

I am currently planning to buy CD5/112/150/Allae/Fraim..........and therefore have the Naim brochure in which they (Naim) class the CD5/NAT05/NAIT5/FC2/112/150/AV2 and V175 as Series 5 products. All other electronics are classed as Reference Series.

Just my 2p worth but the Fraim for our system was chosen for looks as it will reside in the living room and my wife hates the sight of everything else we have seen (even speakers !) - glad to see it seems the best (but most costly) option. My feeling is that the equipment support (Fraim or otherwise) should be seriously considered as a source item as it seems to "flavour" any component introduced.

Now does a CD5/Fraim sound better than a CDX2 sitting on a pile of electronics on carpet ?

Thanx for the explanation from the brochure. I've never seen a Naim brochure stateside.

And reference series or not, its great

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Hi GregB

Send me your address and I'll mail it over to you.

That's OK - I've got my kit so the brochure would just take up space.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

GregB

Hi Greg

Sorry to hijack this topic but as I am in the throws of buying my new system, and you are pro-series 5, I was wondering what system you use ?

I am also getting a Fraim rack......