Moving Towards Rome.

Dear Romi, and Frank,

Related. A spur, but not the whole story.

Let me say that I see a lot of qualities I think are regarded as old fashioned in the West nowadays among the Poles, both good friends and those I know hardly, if at all. It seems to me that it is no accident that the Roman Church is still a major part of life and culture in Poland. Perhaps not very soft and friendly on the surface, but indeed something very deep and good in its influence.

Perhaps we are too well off in the West to really appreciate that.

I think I could be very happy going native in Poland. Unfortunately it is not quite so easy as that, but I still am seeking a way to go there as I could quite as well be poor there as here.

Today I was given twenty four hours notice at work, though the actual delivery was kindly the actual fact is hardly so. I am quite fed up with the way the UK is. My Polish house-mate Szymon was utterly horrified at that sort of way of doing things. It is just a different world.

Such is life. At least I shall have few days off over Christmas! Look on the bright side, and hopefully I can survive financially till the New Year and find something else to do!

ATB from George [Fredrik]

Fredrik

Look upon every misfortune as an opportunity, that is what I do.

If you play your cards right, you will probably land a better job than the one you are in.

Also veering to the RC church is not the answer, you need something, I cannot think what, but it is certainly not the Catholic Church.

Anyway good luck to you.

Regards

Mick

~The 23rd Psalm of David~

"The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies:
thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever."

Dear Unstoppable,

Thanks for that.

Dear Mick,

I do not see any linkage between employment and the Church. I suppose it might if I trained to become a Priest!

I hope that something comes along job-wise, or else the proverbial will soon hit the fan. Seems to me though that the things I am good at are not much in demand nowadays! Even being polite and helpful gets you nowhere answering the phone in a call centre. I suppose I should feel complimented that I was in the second wave of layings off, among a group of ten rather than thirty a short while ago. I think three temps were retained as permanent, but it would have been nice to have had a week's notice of finishing. I am not entirely convinced that I shall find myself much engaged in the task tomorrow, how ever hard I might think I should try.

It was a facinating experience though. Most people seem to feel embarrassed if they have been somewhat rude, and I simply carry on being completely polite! Twice I resorted to fifteen seconds silence before answering after a tirade. Then I simply came back with precise, cold civility. Those were the only truly awful calls I received. The callers could not have been in any doubt that I was hugely annoyed and controlled at the same time, but they could hardly complain about that.

No the spirituality issue is much longer breathed and will not go away. It is not rational, or even anything other than inevitable. It is inevitable because though I tried to rationalise this away for years, I cannot seem to escape the conclusions I have arrived at. It would be wise to accept them and get on with it!

Thanks for the thoughts. George

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Blessed are the cheese makers.

Why not. They're as blessed as anyone else, I suppose.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:

What a load of ....

Then why do you go around wishing everyone a Merry Christmas ?


Next time think before you post.



US

I think it depends on what you call inheriting the earth. If everything in the earth is measured in $$$$s then the meek will never do very well, but if the most important thing in the earth is to spread and receive a little kindliness and happiness, then indeed, so shall the meet inherit the earth.

I think it is "accountants who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing," or something like that!

Sometimes the most obvious answer is not quite the right one! George

quote:

I think it is "accountants who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing," or something like that!

Hey, steady on George

Sorry, Milo! ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Romi, and Frank,

Related. A spur, but not the whole story.

Let me say that I see a lot of qualities I think are regarded as old fashioned in the West nowadays among the Poles, both good friends and those I know hardly, if at all. It seems to me that it is no accident that the Roman Church is still a major part of life and culture in Poland. Perhaps not very soft and friendly on the surface, but indeed something very deep and good in its influence.

Perhaps we are too well off in the West to really appreciate that.

I think I could be very happy going native in Poland. Unfortunately it is not quite so easy as that, but I still am seeking a way to go there as I could quite as well be poor there as here.

Today I was given twenty four hours notice at work, though the actual delivery was kindly the actual fact is hardly so. I am quite fed up with the way the UK is. My Polish house-mate Szymon was utterly horrified at that sort of way of doing things. It is just a different world.

Such is life. At least I shall have few days off over Christmas! Look on the bright side, and hopefully I can survive financially till the New Year and find something else to do!

ATB from George [Fredrik]

George,

Sorry to hear about your work situation but hopefully you will find something even better.

On the wider subject of UK culture, although it may sound cliched to say so, I honestly believe that political events in the 1980's had a big impact on the social cohesion and fabric of the country from which it has still not recovered and which noone seems very interested in putting right. The idea of any collective social responsibility was killed off and there is little sense of community now.

Also, with the attacks on local councils during this period, many community-based services were cut or discontinued. Even now, the talk in local councils is usually about cuts and then more cuts.

In Northampton this year, cuts have been made yet again on Social Care, the Arts and street cleaning. Previously free events, such as the Balloon Festival and Twinfest now have admission fees. Grants were cut from the Roadmender music and arts venue forcing it to close for over a year until recently rescued by a local business. The Borough Council was even prepared to see the recently refurbished local theatres close by pulling a £200,000 grant last year. Only a last minute deal with the County Council saved it. This year, funding for the firework display in Beckets Park was cancelled and street Christmas lighting has been pulled. This might be understandable if it were to save vital Social Services. However, Care Homes are still at risk with a “0% increase” in funding this year and all of the administration staff’s jobs were put at risk so that they all left anyway to be replaced by fewer temporary staff on lower wages. It was also recently reported that a THIRD of all council houses in Northampton fail to meet the government's own Decent Homes Standards with, in some cases, tenants being told that "radiators will be installed in 2010". At the same time, mind you, incompetent managers were given handsome pay-offs.

People seem either apathetic, insular or do not feel empowered enough to do anything about it though. Whether you agree with what they were fighting for or not, Trade Union and local council defeats in the 1980’s seem to have led to a general defeatism. On top if this all the political parties seem to wish to keep things this way. When I was young, at least there were organisations you could join such as the Labour Party Young Socialists (disbanded by Labour for being young and socialist) or campaigning through the National Union of Students or Trade Unions.

I am not a religious person in that I cannot bring myself to believe in any higher being, preferring to believe in people. To their credit though, churches of various different denominations, are the few locally-based organisations that still seem interested in community life and can be a lifeline for people in offering (secular) counselling and support services which are often unavailable now from other sources.

Your comments about the Polish way of life are very interesting and I can well believe are true. Although the reality may be very different and as you rightly say it's not quite that easy, I too have recently thought that I might be happier in a country such as Poland which whilst not as wealthy seems to still have community values. I appreciate you have greater personal insights into this as I am speaking very much as an outsider looking in but what I feel is that countries like Poland, although having been subject to many hardships under Stalinist-style communism (although more accurately "state capitalism") in the past, have, up until now, been shielded in some ways from the worst social effects of neo-liberalist capitalism and from globalisation by their relative isolation from the rest of the world.

Anyhow, sorry to have got into a rather long rant! That's the way I see it at the moment, rightly or wrongly, although I'm sure many will see it differently.

Hope you work out what is right for you

Steeve

Very interesting, and (if I may say so) a very positive contribution to the thread, Steeve, which I greatly enjoyed reading.

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:
Very interesting, and (if I may say so) a very positive contribution to the thread, Steeve, which I greatly enjoyed reading.

Why, thank you kind sir. You most certainly may say that. Equally people can say I'm talking a load of shite as well if they want!

Steeve

Very interesting and positive shite though!

Dear Steeve,

I am not a Mrs Thatcher basher, of herself. She was a reflection of what the country kept voting for. The country made a democratic mistake in my view, but then as now and before the I am alright Jack thing is and was nothing new, but for once the boot was on the foot of the non-trades unionists at the time.

A huge amount of damage was done in my view to respect for the less well off, but that was something which the country seemed and still seems to find acceptable. I have fond memories of the way people actually were in the '70s. Okay that was in the countryside, and we worked long and hard at a time when agriculture was far less mechanised than today, but we also found time to laugh, fool about, get in scrapes and go to bed happy if exhausted. The stress level would not register on the scale compared to the madness of daily life today. And no there is no doubt that even then the money was not swilling round in silly quantities, either, in agriculture. The central heating went on for Christamas and back off again after New Year!

But most of all, we would all help each other. I remember once our nieghbour [Chairman of Bromyard Magistrates], was passing our plough tractor in the lane on her way to Court, and she slipped the car into a very deep ditch. We got her to Court and subsequently got her car out of the ditch and her husband fetched her home later on. That is how things were. Nothing seemed to be too much trouble and there was time for that sort of thing. Not now though is there? No one ever drove past someone walking in te rain or whatever ...

How times change! ATB from George

quote:

I am not a Mrs Thatcher basher

Cue a blast of 'commonsense' from Swindon, any minute now.

There is no point in bashing Mrs T. She was the mirror, not the problem. She fitted the time. The time when the selfishness of people overthrew the old post-1945 consensus of a Nation essentially trying make things better, fairer, if you like - to put a chance for the lower economic orderes to succeed, and progress as never before.

This week there is new report that shows that the least well off are no more mobile upwards than at any time since 1970. Being bright is not the way up. But having wealthy parents remains so. This is largely down to the education system the poorest have to use. Granted that schools in poor areas have big social problems, and indeed the lack of respect for education among large parts of the least well off in this country undoubtedly makes provision of first rate education much more difficult and more expensive than it would be in socially better off areas, but surely it would be more advisable, in terms of making Britain a more economically dynamic place, to train our own younsters well than import highly trained people from every corner of the globe, thus depriving their own countries of this expertise as well.

I am not even talking of equality of resourcing here. I am talking of definately making more effort in areas of the country where the social conditions make supplying first class schooling more difficult.

I would prefer to see this than nonesenses like the Olympics, The Dome, and however many hair-brained schemes, let alone spending vast quantities on such an adventure as Iraq.

Really we need to look both domestically at the real future, and Internationally at what can be done that is prcticle and constructive. I do not see the general will to attempt either aim in any section of the Political spectrum, let alone the general populace here, nowadays.

It is very sad actually.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Seems to me though that the things I am good at are not much in demand nowadays!

I have the same problem! In readiness, I have developed the ability to expect the worst and survive on very little. Meantime, while I'm reasonably solvent, I am frequenting a heavy lifting gym in preparation for the copious manual labour I strongly suspect is coming my way...

Fine by me. I hate engineering, I detest offices, big business, and I loathe all that corporate bullshit some people seem to thrive on. Frankly, I'd rather die than live the corporate life - not that they'd have me anyway. No, my biceps are almost ready, I'll just fetch and carry while the real men draw their manograms and zoom around the place in their Vaxhauls, impressing themselves immeasurably.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your predicament - not nice, especially at this time of year.

EW

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
There is no point in bashing Mrs T. She was the mirror, not the problem. ..........
....... I do not see the general will to attempt either aim in any section of the Political spectrum, let alone the general populace here, nowadays.

It is very sad actually.

ATB from George

George

I agree with a lot of what you say. As you can see, I made a special effort not to mention Margaret Thatcher or any personalities in my diatribe. The events in the 1980's were never about one evil woman any more than the 2nd World War was about one evil man. I would add that her government was also the result of the failure of Labour to provide solutions for the poorest sectors of the community. Many were duped by the false promises of the Tories in 1979. Remember that in their manifesto there was no promise of over 4 million unemployed, 15% interest rates, reduced public services and the destruction of (admittedly already ailing) British manufacturing industries. I was only 16 at the time of her election, but had I been able to vote I can't guarantee I wouldn't have voted for her through ignorance. And remember the famous "Vote Conservative" comment from a young Paul Weller who was soon to become a committed socialist.

My main beef is though that a lot of social infrastructure was simply taken away and nothing put in its place which means that we now appear to have a social underclass in Britain.

The current Labour government have really only continued their work in many ways - sometimes even going further (for example, Royal Mail)- which explains why the gap between the rich and the poor has widened.

I also share the pessimism expressed in your last paragraph. Unfortunately there is now no group giving any sort of lead and no grass-roots involvement in politics. This situation suits the main political parties who do not want "ordinary people" interfering in their work! And once again politicians are trying to treat symptoms rather than causes. Has noone ever bothered to wonder why prisons are overflowing? No, just build more of them! The UK has the largest prison population of any European country which says something about its social problems.

I could go on a lot longer, but, contrary to appearances, I do try to and make the best of how things are and have a life! But yes - it is very sad.

Steeve

Apologies, by the way, for steering this thread somewhat off topic!

Steeve

Chaps

For goodness sake get a grip, things overall are pretty good. We have a better quality of life than our parents could ever dream of and despite the economic ups and downs, the overall trend is still on the up.

Society will always change its values, that is what people do, they change things. I agree the old 1950s nieghbourliness has all but disappeared but so as the built in nosiness that thrived in those days, did you know that Mrs Jones has bought a new carpet etc etc.

Life is what you make it and you have to balance what you want to get out of it against what you want to put into it.

George has lost his job but if he plays his cards right, he will be employed fairly soon, because there is a national shortage of workers in this country right now.

To quote the old song ... be happy.

Regards

Mick

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
For goodness sake get a grip, things overall are pretty good. We have a better quality of life than our parents could ever dream of...

Where you live perhaps, Mick.

There are still great tranches of the country that 20+ years on still have not really recovered from the decimation of heavy industry and mining by Mrs T.

[So that I'm not just speaking a lot of newspaper hot air... I lived in Sheffield as a student at the time of the Miners Strike; and then - through my work - for several years in Doncaster in the post-pit, steel and railway works closures period, with close direct contacts with several affected communities - eg Goldthorpe, New Rossington, Hemsworth, Bentley, Rotherham - which I have maintained since.]

Take pit villages. What Mrs T., Norman, etc did not seem to twig when they were scything through them is that these villages exist ONLY to serve the [now closed] local pit. There is nothing else to diversify into. And pit villages are frequently geographically isolated, so there's no local economy to be absorbed into. And anyway, the finance, service and leisure industries that are taking the place of steel mills, pits and shipyards require money to participate in.

I was brought up in a 'true blue' household; and 'true blue' ideas were poured into me, particularly by my father. Now that he has moved from a comfortable part of the south to the NE (on a romantic whim to live where the family came from 200 yrs ago), to an area where he comes into more into the reality of the Thatcher social legacy in the one-time industrial north, even my father is now questioning the wisdom of much Thatcherite policy.

The social damage inflicted by nearly 20 yrs of Thatcherism, and its only mildly more pink successor Blairism, is still very much alive and well (or should that be unwell).

Why do you think everyone wants to live in the south? It's not JUST the better weather...

EDIT - ADDED... Practical experience has demonstrated to me that to succeed 'sound economic policy' (if that's what it was) cannot exist in isolation. There has to be social responsibility too. It is not good enough to say that for the good of the 67% who benefit, it is acceptable that 33% should not, or in fact proportionately fall further and further behind (not least because in the long run it costs the Country money).

Regards,
James

James

Margaret Thatcher did not destroy the old fashioned, strike industry, the market did that.

Maggie opened up the market, eliminated subsidies and the rest is history. Also as a side shoot, do we really want an industry in this country where men are have to crawl around half a mile underground breathing in coal dust and often dying prematurely as a result.

There are plenty of opportunities everywhere, Manchester, Leeds and Glasgow are booming.

Swindon closed its railworks in 1986 and there were the usual of pathetic cries about how the town had lost its soul etc etc. Today the railworks are a retail outlet and the Swindon economy is thriving and only a few old has beens waffle on about the railways. Times change and success means grabbing change and exploiting it to advantage.

The mines made some people a fortune, they employed thousands but now it is history, time to forget and move on.

The choice is simple, you either think about yesterday or think about today and tomorrow.

Your choice !

Regards

Mick

.

..

Chaps

Something is not right

Mick