now what,upgrade path

So, if i understand your post, your system now is CDS2/102/180/hales. Right? the questions that occur to me are--what is the weakest link in this system and, given the large number of options available at this time, whether to go with new range or vintage olive.

I think if you read the forum you'll generally find that everyone thinks the new range is brilliant. No problems mixing the new with the old. A different "presentation" from the new gear in that it presents more detail and results in a sound closer to that of other hifi makes while retaining much of what has made Naim great in the past. Consensus seems to be that all the new pieces are great, if you can stretch your budget all the pieces will provide lasting satisfaction.

Where's your weakest link? Well, it certainly could be argued that the 102 is the weak link. This is where I'd probably focus my attention, though, having lived with 250's and 135's, I'd want to upgrade both preamp and power amp (if funds could stretch that far). Maximizing value for money I'd suggest you consider the following:

1. swap 102 for 82
2. hicap on the 82
3. after that, I'd go with a 250

There are other options that also make sense
A. swap 102 for 52/supercap (this would make much sense as a very long term component)
B. after doing that, go with 135's.

You'll notice I'm staying within the olive range. Ah, such is my chosen path. Why? value for money. Is the new gear better? Probably. Would a 282 or, heavens, 252 be better choices? Well, that depends. You'd fix the weakest link but might not optimize the overall strength through the chain...dollar for dollar wise...

A few do prefer old over new but, IMHO, it is a minor question. All the equipment is very good, you can hardly go astray, especially with a cds2 fronting your system. what a fun situation to be in!

Markus
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If your ears agree with those of Ken and Jon, you'll probably think the s'cap is a great upgrade to the 102. They used to pitch the 102/s'cap as a worthy alternative to the 82/hi, and my wife and I much preferred the 102/s'cap.

Although I'm a source first type basically, I thought a 72/hi/250 was better than an 82/hi/140, and one of the Chris's at NANA stated that a 102/hi/250 was better than an 82/hi/140, so I think an amp at least as good as a 250 should be in your future.

But what's your budget? and what are your aspirations?

Regards.

Phil

Phil,

It's two months since I replaced my 72 in a 72/Hi/140 set up with an 82. I was fairly happy with this set-up but felt I needed more coherence.

Initially I was very pleased, and posted to that effect, but now I have my doubts. Something is missing - I just cannot engage with the music as i used to.

I'm still doing A/B tests and putting the (cold) 72 back in returns the comfort factor straight away. The 72 has much more bass, a totally engaging forward presentation but a ragged top end. In contrast, the 82 has less but more defined bass, a flatter presentaion and a sweet top end. Better hi-fi but not better music, I guess.

Clearly, one of the units has to go but I simply cannot decide which one. I would like to keep the 82 but beginning to edge back to the 72.

How can I combine the attributes of both?

How about 72/Hi/200 to 'tame' the 72. Or would 82/Hi/250 be the answer as I do feel that it needs more power than the 140 can offer, despite having a dedicated and fuseless supply. I would add, however, that it works fine with the 72 so it could be a system balence issue.

Any comments gratefully received,

Steve

Peach--

If I read your post correctly, you have a CDS2/52/180 system. Right? Assuming that's correct, some specific answers.

It is generally safe buying used Naim power amps--they can be recapped after 7-10 years and brought back to new spec. An olive series 250 or 135s would match your existing system perfectly and both offer a substantial upgrade over the 180. Mark Russell hit the nail on the head--in your position I would try a new 300 vs. a pair of 135s. You might also try the new 250, which I've heard and is substantially better (!) than my olive 250.

I think the new and olive styles work together very well--I've heard a 52/500 and a 202/Hi/olive 250 work brilliantly together.

Best,

Bob

Peach,

I misread your post. If you already have a 52, you probably (!) already have a s'cap.

I always thought the 180 was not much better (IMO) than a 140. The 250 is another thing entirely. And I won't listen to 135s until I can afford them.

Steve,

I was tremendously impressed with the SPEED of the 82 compared to the 72, but I always felt the 72 was more satisfying musically. With the 72/hi/140, I listened to music; with the 82, I listened to speed. I talked with NANA and took the 82 back to the dealer and got a 250.

A year later, I had to have remote control, and I really liked the speed I remembered. I found an 82. Through the 250, the 82 was better than the 72 on a VFM and absolute basis, as good as the 72 is.

Hypothesis: the 140 was the bottleneck, and a narrow one, in my system.

Bottom line, to my ears, a 72/hi/140 was about equal in terms of musical satisfaction to an 82/hi/140. A 72/hi/250 was far better - even cold - than either a 72/hi/140 or an 82/hi/140. And the 250 was cheaper than the 82.

Regards.

Phil

bob, yes i already have the 52 and s- cap.i think i'm going to take your advice and spring for the 300. thank you all for your opinions.

Peach, I can confirm that the 52 works beautifully with the new power-amps. Don't forget that the 500 was developed with the 52 and the 300 was derived from the 500.

Enjoy.

Thanks Phil.

I've yet to hear a 250.

I think I will hang on to both units until I get that opportunity.

Steve