Don't bother to read this

Posted by: Alex S. on 18 June 2001

1. My system (apologies to those who already know it):

LP12/Ittok/DV20-X/Lingo; CDX/CDPS(Modified Grey Burndy).
82/Supercap (Black Snaics), 2 x 250s (Grahams “Hydra” mains leads).
Nautilus 805s (Cabletalk 4.1, crimped not soldered plugs) on hne cableway granite stands on Mana Sound Bases.
Supports: LP12, Amps & PSs on Base 5 tier rack (LP12 on Base02 shelf)
CDX on Base01 on top of otherwise empty 5 tier Sound Org rack.
Others & Tweaks: RPG profoam on rear and side walls, 6 Skylines in front of speakers.
Recommended cable tie on 82 severed, using tuner input for CDX. No Mains treatment, No other tweaks.

Upgrading has allowed for a second system:
Toshiba DVD as CD source; 32.5/Hi-Cap/110; Original AE1s on Ikea supports (Naca5 cable).

I started serious music reproduction purchasing in about 1980 when I bought a Basik LP12, NAD 3020 and Mission 700s. I have also owned Kans for 10 years.

There is nothing remarkable about my system now or previously but when I started thinking about how I came by it it intrigued me that so many opposites seem to apply. Here is a list of words which apply to my purchasing history:

Rationality, Irrationality; Logic, Stupidity; Reverence, Irreverence; Empirical, Whim; Financial constraint, Windfall; Coercion, Independent thinking; Laziness, Thoroughness; Prejudice, Open mindedness; Spare time, No spare time.

I thought it might interest readers to present some examples of the above processes in action.

Certain words do not really apply: Aesthetic judgment; Status enhancement attempt. I have only considered what my equipment sounded like. I think.

I bought my original LP12 etc because I earned more than usual in 1980 and had broken my Ronco sound system. I thought I would go to a specialist dealer because a magazine told me to. I went to Grahams and bought my first system. Sure I listened to it but I didn’t listen to any alternatives. I wasn’t even offered any alternatives and had not the wit nor the guts to mention Pink Triangle (which I’d read about) to my audio operative. I left the shop ready to preach the faith of “garbage in = garbage out” and about 600 quid worse off. It so happens that Grahams sold me quite a decent system and I have stuck with them on and off to date. But they could have sold me a pile of trash. I was in no mood to trust my ears, a naive student in a rarefied atmosphere. Next I gave away the Mission 700s and bought Kans - a big move I thought. Then I flogged the NAD 3020 and bought 32/110 - a bigger move I thought. Then I px’d the 32/110 against 32.5/Hi-Cap/250 and bought an Ittok to boot. By now I was feeling rather smug but very poor. All this was done at Grahams, as was the addition of a Troika and binning the Kans in favour of AE1s - I was pleased with both decisions.

All of the above involved a lot of Reverence, Windfall, Coercion, Prejudice and Spare Time. I thought it involved rather more Rationality, Logic, Empiricism, Thoroughness and Open mindedness than it really did. Although I was listening to and appreciating all the equipment I was buying I wasn’t listening to many alternatives. I have never listened to another serious turntable in my life. I auditioned a Musical Fidelity preamp and rather liked it but decided to go all Naim - but this was my decision and not really Grahams. When AE1s appeared Grahams fell over backwards to flog them to me (they let me have an extended home trial and to make a series of rather erratic payments) but now seem to think they are garbage. I had the bass/midrange drivers replaced recently and they were very off-ish about them. (In fact I slightly resent the fact that AE1s are built according to the light bulb principle - they know and don’t care that the drivers will need replacing every decade or so).

I did not buy a CD player until 1995. I had been quite happy with vinyl until then and all the CD players I had heard sounded like so much broken beer mugs and tin tacks being trodden on. I “only” had a grand to spend and wanted to spend it wisely. I instinctively did not wish to buy a Naim CD player since I thought other companies had more experience and expertise in this area: Arcam, Meridian, Linn (like Bikes, had to be British at least). I listened to all of them and the Naim sounded way better, way more musical, way more analogue and involving. Arcams sounded bright and 2 dimensional, no bass, Linns sounded analytical and unmusical, no bass, Meridians sounded quite good but too expensive. At last some real empiricism, lack of prejudice etc. But I listened only to Naim amps - maybe with Meridian or Linn amplification it would have been different.

By this time Grahams had gone all AV leisure palace and I was a bit put off and looked elsewhere. My Naim amplifiers all needed servicing so I went to my local dealer Billy Vee and, lucky for them, went on a sudden spree based largely on whim (and lots of money which should have been spent on wife, kids, car etc). I listened a bit in their not very good and very different from mine listening room and did borrow a lot of stuff: I demmed CDX against CD3 at their place and bought it immediately (2nd Hand) - should have also demmed the CDX against CDS2 I fear. I demmed 82 against 32.5, hardly heard any difference but bought it anyway. Then I got in the car and bought another Hi-Cap from a bloke in Preston because it seemed like a good idea (never actually demmed 2 Hi-Caps with 82) and bought an old 110 off his mate at the same time for a laugh. I bought another (old but serviced) 250 to partner the one I had. I was doing quite well in the second hand marketplace I thought. But where was all my thoroughness, empiricism etc, etc? This was all intuitive purchasing.

I suddenly went back to Grahams because they had a 2nd hand Lingo going (I had demmed Lingos 3 times at Grahams in the 90s without buying one - sounded good but I did not want to spend so much money on a small shoe box full of air) and started buying Base01s like there was no tomorrow - I went backwards and forwards for 2 weeks and bought 7. I also bought a (bigger) Base02 for the LP12 - logic and the manufacturer told me this was more suitable for a TT than a Base01 - despite the fact that Grahams virtually refused to sell it to me.

I was getting the support bug. I joined this forum and read all about Mana, Hutter, Ash, Target and imminent Fraim. I knew I wanted either Mana or Fraim. So I went and bought a Base rack. (Fraim pisses me off a bit - expensive, commissioned not made by Naim, looks lovely but I don’t care about looks, Naim said equipment supports don’t matter for 25 years). I had bought the 805s from Billy Vee and knew I wanted granite stands - I went to Grahams and auditioned them, rang the manufacturer and bought some. Then I started talking to Damien about Mana (for hours) and ended up with Sound Bases under the granite stands.

Then I started ringing people - Grahams, Billy Vee, other dealers, Naim, Linn (once and only once), B&W, Cabletalk, Acoustic Energy, Rel, Damien, and pestering them, asking silly and inane questions. Often I knew the answers but rang anyway. Then I (almost) stopped ringing and started posting. Then I (almost) stopped posting and started listening to music. Then I started changing the order of all my boxes on the racks - four times a day. Then I stopped and wondered why I allowed cable ties to be cut, CT4.1 instead of Naca5, chord interconnects, to be foisted on me without so much as a whimper. I am now thinking about mains generators. Now I’m not. Now I’m making sure the Mana is not over-tightened and still goes bingggg (or bonggg with boards instead of glass). I’m also measuring the height of my ceiling and dividing it by the height of Sound Stages and Mini Tables. Now I’m looking at technical drawings of the Fraim again and wondering if any UK dealers have got it yet. I’m wondering if I’ve got it yet.

Despite some pretty foolish ways of buying stuff I love my system. My best purchases have been a cheap CDPS for the CDX a Supercap for 82 (even though I was convinced for quasi-technical reasons that 2 Hi-Caps must sound as good), RPG foam and granite speaker stands. Other good moves have been 2nd 250 - good with 805s, the 805s themselves (with their R&D budget B&W should be able to make decent speakers - another instict), Lingo and Mana.

What about mistakes, possible and actual: I listened to Saras and SBLs a long time ago and did not like either, don’t know why and I’ve not listened to them since. I had AE1s on Kan stands for 10 years - big mistake. I allowed Grahams to throw away (throw away?) my Troika instead of having it rebuilt, and bought a DV20-X - really big mistake. I have kept Ittok instead of Ekos or Aro; I have Lingo not Armaggedon - big mistakes? I have Base not Mana or Fraim (or Hutter) - maybe life is too short. I have a CDX not a CDS1 or preferably a CDS2 (still find CDX a bit harsh). I have not demmed CDPS against XPS on CDX but Naim have done it for me - they told me not to bother so I went and bought it anyway. Toshiba DVD remains as CD source at home because my wife thinks it sounds fine and has vetoed any additional boxes (she doesn’t know I’ve hidden a Hi-Cap round the back of the IKEA).

If the whole lot gets nicked tomorrow and I had no time to audition anything this is what I would instinctively buy :
LP12/Aro/Lyra something or other/’Geddon; CDS2 + cheap CDPS; 32.5 for next to nothing/Supercap (if this works, otherwise the cheapest preamp I can find that does work with S-cap); Old 135s. I would service all Naim gear. All this on Mana amp racks and min phase 4 for sources; Naca5; N805s on granite stands on Mana Sound Bases. Small family holiday. Voila. Then go straight to 52 and put XPS on CDS2. Bliss.

I hope this lengthy and labyrinthian post has not been like looking at the poorly taken holiday snaps of someone you’ve never met but has been of some interest and potential use.

We can only hope that Vuk posts a few tasteful cleavages or Mana phase 7s to spice it up.

Medals for those who read all of this,

Alex S.

Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Dev B
Thats all I can say really.
Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Andrew Randle
Alex,

You worry too much.

Someone on this forum has a great signature that truely applies to you: "buy more music, it is the cheapest upgrade".

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Stuart Frazer
Nice post alex - thanks for sharing those exeriences with us. It looks like its been a long road for you.

stuart

Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Chris L
quote:
_____________________________________________
As to Fraim, i heard one at Phonography in
Ringwood on Saturday,
_____________________________________________

And what did you think?

Chris L

Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Mike Hanson
It sounds like you've been bitten by the upgrade bug a whole bunch of times. smile It tends to happen in flurries. Back when system was 3.5/Hi/102/NAPSC/Flat/140, I wasn't completely happy with it (not enough slam, among other things). Rather than do a simple upgrade (to something like CDX/102/NAPSC/Hi/140, which is a very well-balanced system), I ended up getting a CDX, an 82, another Hi-Cap and a 250. My system sounded a whole lot better, but I could have (should have?) spaced these out over a longer period.

Just recently I had an XPS on order, then suddenly changed my mind and got a CDS2 instead (it was good deal that I couldn't pass up). While I was at it, I threw in a 52 just for fun. I'm listening to the CDS2 while waiting for the 52, and I not really in any pain. big grin The 52 could have waited for a while, but I came up with some excuse and bought it right away.

That's the way the upgrade bug works. You think you need something better, so you get all excited and start buying more than you "need". Occasionally you might make a poor choice of paths, and you hope it doesn't happen too often.

That's what I like about Naim gear. Your upgrade path is pretty straightforward, and most upgrades will give real satisfaction. Of course, you still see people building mullet systems like 92/Hi/135, and you try your best to persuade them that there's a better path. Then again, who am I to tell them what will make them happy.

That's really the crux of the matter. This whole stereo thing is a hobby for most of us. We have hobbies to entertain ourselves in our spare time. Sometimes hobbies can be expensive, but there's nothing wrong with that if you can afford it. It sounds like you've been entertained, even though it cost you a bit of money. Sure you could have purchased the "perfect" system up front, but you wouldn't have had all that pleasure along the way.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

[This message was edited by Mike Hanson on MONDAY 18 June 2001 at 19:45.]

Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Alex S.
Don't take me too seriously.

I was trying a Hanson, and don't tell me we haven't all trodden somewhat similar paths, were not on this forum for nought.

I once critisised Mike for going on but realised that I can go on for about 20 minutes and spend 12 hours listening to music - a fair ratio.

Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Alex S.
Somehow I just knew you would support my lunacy - yes much more satisfying than buying a fully fledged Naim system one week (and a BMW the next).
Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Tony L
quote:
Back when system was 3.5/Hi/102/NAPSC/Flat, I wasn't completely happy with it (not enough slam, among other things). Rather than do a simple upgrade (to something like CDX/102/NAPSC/Hi/140, which is a very well-balanced system), I ended up getting a CDX, an 82, another Hi-Cap and a 250. My system sounded a whole lot better, but I could have (should have?) spaced these out over a longer period.
Just recently I had an XPS on order, then suddenly changed my mind and got a CDS2 instead (it was good deal that I couldn't pass up). While I was at it, I threw in a 52 just for fun. I'm listening to the CDS2 while waiting for the 52, and I not really in any pain. The 52 could have waited for a while, but I came up with some excuse and bought it right away.

Mike's bit above and the whole of Alex's letter really hit home as to how lucky I have been with all this…

Thirteen years ago I was happily listening to my Xerxes / RB300 / 62 / Hicap / 140 / Kan II system. A relatively modest system agreed, but one that just fundamentally played music in way that puts most systems regardless of cost to shame, and also puts upgrading right to the back of the mind. It was only when I was earning a good deal more money that I started fiddling with this system. In all fairness the Xerxes was getting a bit saggy, so something needed to be done.

It became pretty obvious to me that I had lost the magic despite ending up with the classic flat earth combo of LP12 / Ittok / 32.5 / Hicap / 135 / Isobarik. So rather than embarking on the spending spiral I have witnessed so often elsewhere I have reverted back to a turbo-charged version of my original system (now P9 / 32.5 / Hicap / 250 / Kan II). It works fundamentally well, cost me peanuts, and I have no current plans to upgrade.

Tony.

Still not quite mad despite owning quality hi-fi for 22 years.

Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Andrew Randle
Mike and Alex, you're turning into the "Bert and Ernie" of this forum big grin

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Joe Petrik
Mike,

quote:
...Back when system was 3.5/Hi/102/NAPSC/Flat, I wasn't completely happy with it (not enough slam, among other things)...

Did you expect a lot of slam without a power amp? wink

Joe

Posted on: 18 June 2001 by Mike Hanson
Thanks for that, Joe. The post has been edited.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Posted on: 20 June 2001 by Alex S.
Mad & Sad? Maybe honest.

Its taken 25 years; only 3 serious attacks of upgraditis. I have been very happy with every system I've had. Surely most of us don't upgrade because we are unhappy, we upgrade because we wish to be even happier. And because we're a bit better off.

In those years I have indulged other passions: the music the system(s) play, all women, my wife, my 2 girls (soon to become 3), Arsenal FC, playing football for Racing Club de Blackheath (pretentious moi?), Spain, France, Italy, Spain again, very old Saab, old Saab 900 Turbo, fine wine, plonk, fine food, junk food, walking in NW Scotland etc etc.

Alex

ps After all, its people like me who have turned Naim from a rather small and not very profitable company into a rather large and profitable one.