Best Software to Rip WAV files?

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
I have tried various ripping software I can hear no difference, itunes creates bit perfect rips that is it, please don't push this 'only the HDX rips perfectly ' nonsense down our throats.

How do you know iTunes rips are bit-perfect?

What tool did you use to measure this?

js,

I'm simply referring to the fact that Patrick admits he cannot hear a difference between an EAC and an iTunes rip.

In over two years of ripping with iTunes I have heard 5 clicks. Is it worth sitting through 1000s of hours of ripped music in order to hear 5 clicks? I hear 5 clicks in the first minute of playing vinyl. Let's get things into perspective; 5 clicks in 1000 hours equates to 99.99999999999999 accuracy!! EAC would have replicated the clicks and shown me a log

End of

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
Tony

Completely agree. As an aside, have you thought about trying a hiFace between your Mac and Dac?

I've considered it, but I need a 12 Metre interconnect between computer & Lavry which with my current optical lead seems fine. However, I'm led to believe a co-ax of this length would be a bit problematic.

Guys, it's not a question of the rips being "good enough", the rips are identical unless errors occur.

It just dawned on me that we don't all rip to the same format. Perhaps my observations on lossless and clarity of players/comfigurations has an influece here.

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
I have tried various ripping software I can hear no difference, itunes creates bit perfect rips that is it, please don't push this 'only the HDX rips perfectly ' nonsense down our throats.

Not ONLY the HDX.... Also XLD, EAC, dBPoweramp, and many others I am sure.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Without pregap detection and ripping of said data, iTunes could never, and i mean NEVER, rip a CD with pretrack information perfectly. It will be missing audible parts of the CD. This is perceivable to any person who can hear, and many who cant.

Not much to say after that. Bit perfect would include all of the bits.

In some cases not being able to correct your ripping drive's offset can result in lost data.

How that can be considered "bit perfect" is beyond me.

Do me a huge favor. Rip "Songs for the Deaf" by Queens of the Stone Age in iTunes. Tell me if you've been able to rip the hidden first track.

Also try R.E.M. Murmur - 25th Anniversary Deluxe Edition - bonus disc (vintage radio promo for the album's original 1983 release)

Blind Melon, Soup - "Hello Goodbye"

I would be happy to be proved wrong. But you wont be able to rip it.

You are such a jacka*& with your "error counting" comment.

If missing entire songs, lead-ins, etc... is acceptable than continue to rip with iTunes and call it bit perfect.

FYI, many classical recording use pretrack info of the slight crowd noise prior to the performance starting. This is one of the 100s of reason I stopped ripping with iTunes years ago.

To each their own.....

I am ripping a disc now.....
Inserted CD
Opened EAC
pressed f4 to detect gap and pretracks (as well as pre-emphasis which is rare)
Create cue sheet in "Edit"
Save it to a folder of your liking.
Press F6 to start rip, opens the same folder the cue is in.
Enter.
Rip Done in a bit.

Not difficult, not error counting.

When the rip is done you can listen to your hearts content. If you someday noticed a glitch or pop or crackle or digitization, etc... you could look at the log:

"Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 3 from 28. July 2007

EAC extraction logfile from 11. November 2009, 20:09

Koby Israelite / Dance Of The Idiots

Used drive : MATSHITAUJDA765aDVD/CDRW Adapter: 0 ID: 1

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction : 102
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Installed external ASPI interface
Gap handling : Appended to previous track

Used output format : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate : 192 kBit/s
Quality : High
Add ID3 tag : No
Command line compressor : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\Flac\flac.exe
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m" -T "COMMENT=EAC FLAC -8" %s


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 3:37.60 | 0 | 16334
2 | 3:37.60 | 4:34.35 | 16335 | 36919
3 | 8:12.20 | 5:47.23 | 36920 | 62967
4 | 13:59.43 | 1:51.41 | 62968 | 71333
5 | 15:51.09 | 8:00.27 | 71334 | 107360
6 | 23:51.36 | 5:17.00 | 107361 | 131135
7 | 29:08.36 | 6:21.59 | 131136 | 159769
8 | 35:30.20 | 5:36.27 | 159770 | 184996
9 | 41:06.47 | 4:31.56 | 184997 | 205377
10 | 45:38.28 | 3:36.39 | 205378 | 221616
11 | 49:14.67 | 2:48.48 | 221617 | 234264
12 | 52:03.40 | 1:44.18 | 234265 | 242082


Track 1

Filename E:\Ups\Koby Israelite - Dance Of The Idiots (2003) [FLAC] (Tzadik)\01 - Saints And Dates.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00

Peak level 98.8 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 6CCC3A75
Copy CRC 6CCC3A75
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename E:\Ups\Koby Israelite - Dance Of The Idiots (2003) [FLAC] (Tzadik)\02 - Toledo Five Four.wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC B70AE05B
Copy CRC B70AE05B
Copy OK

Track 3

Filename E:\Ups\Koby Israelite - Dance Of The Idiots (2003) [FLAC] (Tzadik)\03 - If That Makes Any Sense.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.50

Peak level 98.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2D6ED39B
Copy CRC 2D6ED39B
Copy OK


No errors occurred

End of status report


All you need to see is the 2nd line from the end. Everything else is Greek to me.

If there is an error it will tell you the track and the exact time.

Re rip track if there is an issue.


Anyway............. im not sure why i bother discussing it here.

-p

quote:

Originally posted by Keith L:
js,
Patrick admits he cannot hear a difference between an EAC and an iTunes rip.

I can when there are songs missing.

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
Tony

Completely agree. As an aside, have you thought about trying a hiFace between your Mac and Dac?

I've considered it, but I need a 12 Metre interconnect between computer & Lavry which with my current optical lead seems fine. However, I'm led to believe a co-ax of this length would be a bit problematic.

It is but less so than standard tos. COAX spec allows longer runs. If your cable is glass, that's a different case an probably best.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by Keith L:
js,
Patrick admits he cannot hear a difference between an EAC and an iTunes rip.

I can when there are songs missing.

and it wouldn't be the first time we aren't in full agreement. PC is on an upward path but right now he's got a beresford via tos to hold him over. Fine for now but even PC would admit there may be something not there. I don't expect him to describe anything he hasn't experienced as he's always been a straight shooter. I do my own listening, thank you and am less concerned about a tick then the overall goodness.

I know that once one has invested a significant effort [in my case the contents of something over 500 CDs with more than 11,000 corrections to titling and tagging] that one is apt to be accused of having a vested interest in what one has done, but I have naturally retained the original discs [if only to prove that the transfers were not stolen], so that I can definitely say my pair of acute ears have detected nothing significantly or irritatingly wrong with iTunes using ALAC.

It may or may not be the best, but it is certainly very functional, and a step forward over playing the CDs directly with the Achilles Heal of on the fly error correction. iTunes rips rescued some unplayable [on any CD played I ever had] rare and irreplaceable CD issues. This alone makes me happy, but the quality is more than merely adequate, though the audiophile may expect more.

EAC simply failed to make transfers of the "saved" music making. So I am sold on iTunes as a workable and first rate option.

I am sure the experts will have methods that may have a degree of added sonic splendour, but don't knock iTunes just because it is mainstream and user friendly! It is very good to this pair of ears! No replay is perfect.

On the issue of track joins, I have had not one single problem.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by js:

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by Keith L:
js,
Patrick admits he cannot hear a difference between an EAC and an iTunes rip.

I can when there are songs missing.

and it wouldn't be the first time we aren't in full agreement. PC is on an upward path but right now he's got a beresford via tos to hold him over. Fine for now but even PC would admit there may be something not there. I don't expect him to describe anything he hasn't experienced as he's always been a straight shooter. I do my own listening, thank you and am less concerned about a tick then the overall goodness.

Fully agreed JS, my source is certainly lacking, but pretty good. The HDX into the Beresford was awesome! Only it was about 20% of what the HDXs internal DAC and analog outputs are capable of.

The HDX is a formidable beast though...

That being said... I do think it possible that an iTunes rip could sound different on a more resolving system. Hence my efforts to get my rips as dialed as possible. But I dont think I could ever hear any differences years ago when I took the Pepsi challenge. I took the most flexible, powerful and supported programs and ran with it. Although, always with a very open mind to better approaches. Albeit right now it is hard (for me) to disagree with EAC, Foobar, and FLAC.

The Beatles releasing the 24 bit USB stick in FLAC is proof enough to me that FLAC is the Lossless codec of choice even for mainstream folk.

George.... as always you hit the nail on the head. I agree with you that it is good enough. But even you would agree if desired you could do more. For most in this forum that is the goal.

I would happily live with iTunes and ALAC rips if my only option, or I didnt have somewhat of a passion for the replay side of things. But if a potentially better (and free) option lies in wait... and someone asks "how should I do this?" and is willing to put in a little more effort than typical... XLD, EAC, dbPoweramp, etc offer a great "proper" rips.

I really still cannot understand going through all of the effort of ripping discs and not doing it as properly as possible, regardless lack of perceived sound quality.

Is iTunes really that much easier? Really? Besides the "easier" argument, let us put that aside, what does iTunes do well? Why is it SO MUCH more desirable than EAC or XLD? I dont get it?

I understand using it as you media player if your library is reasonably sized and you use ALAC, and need to easily load to your iPhone/Pod. But why the need to rip with it when it clearly has major shortcomings and a solution is free, easy, and right at your fingertips?

There is no reason not to do proper rips with secure mode, test and copy, corrected drive offsets, log/cue files, and any codec you choose.

patrick

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

That being said... I do think it possible that an iTunes rip could sound different on a more resolving system. Hence my efforts to get my rips as dialed as possible.
patrick

Patrick,

Judging by Ferenc's posts and some people on here that are known to me, there are plenty of folk with systems that are 'resolving' - certainly more so than an HDX.

If you are ripping CDs with different packages because you think you are missing some 'hidden' tracks, fine. Point us to any CDs where listed tracks are not ripped (I can't prove a negative for you and I care not a jot for so-called hidden tracks if the artist is not proud enough of them to list them).

The tests that Ferenc highlighted are thorough, certainly more thorough than any that have been advanced as proof of any problem with iTunes (that'll be none, btw ).

You are not claiming a sonic difference, although you seem to live in fear that you one day might own something 'resolving enough' to betray all that missing information.

That's the beauty of choice there are solutions for the neurotic as well as the rest.

But you trying to drag the rest of us into your private Hell of paranoia and suspicion that iTunes MIGHT not sound as good, is not very convincing. Where is the proof?

Joe

I know a Linn man who claims dbPoweramp rips are the best available.

He also claims his system can reveal differences in playback between his 2 disc NAS and his 4 disc NAS, both NAS boxes of the same specification apart from number of drives.

Everyone to their own!

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
It is not "nerdy" Ferenc... It is just correct.

iTunes CANNOT produce a proper rip. In some cases it might lop off the beginning of the CD. If it produces errors, you wont know. It doesnt make cue sheets for use down the road with programs (like cPlay) that use them. Burst mode rips are not bit perfect.

You are backing yourself into a corner. No wonder you don't plan on ever leaving iTunes.

Question.... if you encounter errors on a rip, wouldnt you re-rip? Is that nerdy?

I am not sure what your experience with EAC was but there isnt any more "reading of data" than looking at the end of the log for either "There were no errors", or "There were errors."

The log tells you the track and the location of the errors. Then you can listen to the offending track and see if it is audible or unacceptable.

I have never said once that an iTunes rip sounds inferior to anything else. I cant discern between a EAC/FLAC rip vs. iTunes/ALAC without pure guessing.

That isnt the point. The point is that EAC and XLD give you tools and control to make the best rip possible. In the exact same way the HDX does. Why would someone resist that?

Tell me you are lazy, tell me you dont know how to set it up, tell me you just dont care.... But dont tell us iTunes rips are just as good. Its for kids.

Is using the HDX to rip CDs "nerdy"? Is using a free program on a existing computer that produces rips as perfectly as the HDX, silly?

iTunes is OK, not great, for playback, but for ripping it falls way short.

-p

Sorry for my bad English, but I do not know what "nerdy" means in the context of cd ripping.

However I do know, there are times when one needs to accept compromises. I am fanatic about to make the cds clean before ripping, and make the ripping process as much as vibration free as I can make it. This is why I am using Mana, and exceptional external cd reader. Then all the rest is done by iTunes on my Mac. It gives me piece of mind and satisfaction and I really enjoy listening my music library through the existing computer-based system since 2005. I tried all the rest of the potential ripping apps on my Mac and some on PC too. They can be more precise on a way or another but as they did not sound too much different, I just do not care about the difference. This kind imperfection really does not give me headache. By the way using Amarra or the Pure Vinyl this difference is even smaller.

The way how iTunes handles metadata again is perfectly suitable for my listening and searching habits. I just do not feel the need to find something more deep. In my normal life in the broadcast video industry I am dealing with large Media Asset Management systems like Avid Interplay or Apple" Final Cut Server and some other too, and to be honest I really do not want something this extensive at home. I am just too lazy as you said so right. Plus if you put the ripping in the context of the whole audio reproduction chain, you easily can realize that the effect of ripping imperfection is so tiny for other system wide effects like acoustics, mains filtering, vibration, position of the speakers, etc that I really do not feel to take care of it on the level as you do. If you feel you do need this kind of attention, that is absolutely fine for me. I really appreciate this and it means I do read your experience and suggestion with great interest

I just have more important things in my life and in my music reproduction than the search for the perfect ripping and tagging solution. Like speaker phase coherency, but it is another story

PCStockton wrote ,

quote:

The HDX into the Beresford was awesome

The HDX is a formidable beast though...

Oh dear!

So are we happy then that if all rips are performed without errors that whether I use EAC, iTunes, Winamp, Foobar, HDX etc., that all rips are bit identical when using .wav or a lossless format? Come on, any remaining doubters?

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by PMR:
So are we happy then that if all rips are performed without errors that whether I use EAC, iTunes, Winamp, Foobar, HDX etc., that all rips are bit identical when using .wav or a lossless format? Come on, any remaining doubters?

Peter

Yes. Me at least. Rip a cd with DBpoweramp and you get a checksum which verifies against the Accuraterip database (if there are no errors), and will be identical with the checksum obtained from many tens of other rips.

Rip the same cd with iTunes, compute the checksum with DBpoweramp, and it will be different, as will WMP.

Which ripper are you going to believe? The one that makes public a checksum of its result and verifies it against a public database? Or the one that doesn't even tell you if it read the cd properly or not?

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
PCStockton wrote ,

quote:

The HDX into the Beresford was awesome

The HDX is a formidable beast though...

Oh dear!

"The HDX into the Beresford was awesome! Only it was about 20% of what the HDXs internal DAC and analog outputs are capable of." Context?

Context, I tried the HDX I thought it extremely poor, Pc's concept of 'formidable' is somewhat different to mine.

Opinion's fine but part of a quote implied an opposite meaning from it's entirety. He was just stating that he's aware of the Beresford limitations when compared, not trying to rub you the wrong way about your hatred for the HDX. LOL

Likesmusic,

Can you suggest a few popular tracks used previously or even re-perform the test yourself so I can rip from my CD and test likewise? At least we are starting from the same point. Indeed, my CD maybe different, which is at least one reason why Accuraterip may be inconsistent with its own results, but that's a guess not knowing it from Adam.

Cheers,
Peter     

quote:

Originally posted by PMR:
Likesmusic,

Can you suggest a few popular tracks used previously or even re-perform the test yourself so I can rip from my CD and test likewise? At least we are starting from the same point. Indeed, my CD maybe different, which is at least one reason why Accuraterip may be inconsistent with its own results, but that's a guess not knowing it from Adam.

Cheers,
Peter     

Peter - pick any reasonably popular cd you have - the more popular the more rips there will be in Accuraterip. Rip it with DBPoweramp and WMP (say). Use the DBPoweramp Music Convertor to compute the checksum of the WMP (or whatever other) rip. Compare it to the checksum DBPoweramp shows when it verifies against Accuraterip. When I have done this, the checksums are different. Don't take my word for it! Do the experiment yourself. DBPoweramp has a decent free trial version.

quote:

Opinion's fine but part of a quote implied an opposite meaning from it's entirety. He was just stating that he's aware of the Beresford limitations when compared, not trying to rub you the wrong way about your hatred for the HDX. LOL

I don't 'hate' it JS, I think it was a lost oppurtunity to make somethig really worthwhile.

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:

quote:

Originally posted by PMR:
Likesmusic,

Can you suggest a few popular tracks used previously or even re-perform the test yourself so I can rip from my CD and test likewise? At least we are starting from the same point. Indeed, my CD maybe different, which is at least one reason why Accuraterip may be inconsistent with its own results, but that's a guess not knowing it from Adam.

Cheers,
Peter     

Peter - pick any reasonably popular cd you have - the more popular the more rips there will be in Accuraterip. Rip it with DBPoweramp and WMP (say). Use the DBPoweramp Music Convertor to compute the checksum of the WMP (or whatever other) rip. Compare it to the checksum DBPoweramp shows when it verifies against Accuraterip. When I have done this, the checksums are different. Don't take my word for it! Do the experiment yourself. DBPoweramp has a decent free trial version.

Quick question, how do you use the Music Converter to compute the CRC/checksum?

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by PMR:
Quick question, how do you use the Music Converter to compute the CRC/checksum?

Peter

Just run it - it first asks you for a list of files to convert - give it a couple - then a screen opens up which asks you "Converting to". Select Calculate Audio CRC - Click convert - bobsyeruncle.