My new 250 just went KABOOM!

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Perhaps in well-mannered England you find it more productive to kiss up to manufacturers?

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No, but it's usually far more productive to talk rationally with those who can fix your problem, than rant publicly and threaten. Give them the opportunity to make amends - there are better ways of displaying your dissatisfaction than your apparently childish tantrums here.

How do you think any staff member of a shop will feel if you behave the same way when presenting the problem to them - you've already started by making their life much more difficult before they even start.

The best customers get the best service and that has nothing whatsoever to do with you boasting about the size of your wallet.

I agree with Patrick, you sound like an arrogant bully.

The stupid thing is Naim themselves will see this as an unacceptable failure, even though, in reality, it probably represents a tiny blip in an otherwise excellent record. I fail to see the purpose of your thread here, short of venting your obvious short temper. You should also note that this comes from no particular blind allegiance on my part, before you throw that at me.

Andy.

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Perhaps in well-mannered England you find it more productive to kiss up to manufacturers?

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Anger management can pay dividends in this imperfect world.
For example as a long time business traveller I have sufferred the constant unreliability of air travel for a decade. If there is one thing I have learnt in that time it's that the guy who blows a valve, and screams and thumps the checkin desk just turns the gals off and reduces his chances of getting help.
I am not saying a meek acceptance of the failure is necessary, just a sensible approach. State your case firmly ONCE then have some patience and watch what happens. Time and time again this has worked. The customer service rep will dissappera into the office with a ream of paperwork from all the disgruntled travellers, but guess who gets fixed up first and continues to get helpfull treatment, whilst the screamers and shouters continue their policy and just get further away from actual help.
I know this analogy is not exactly applicable but the moral still applies in my experience. If you approach a failure with "what can be done to fix this? I have only had this a few months an I did pay a lot of mnoney for it"
rather than
"you are a bunch of f**** w**** and I want an immediate replacement. If I don't get satisfaction by this afternoon I am never going to buy another piece of your f**** useless equipment" which do you think works better in the long term? A reasonable approach to a problem is remembered and can buy lots of "future benefit" in service and commercial condsideration.

I don't call that kissing up to manufacturer's. I call it acceptance that this is an imperfect world and it is reasonable to give suppliers time to respond.

geoff

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Originally posted by slim:
No elctronics manufacturer can have control of a defective component within a design after all tests are ok, if it goes awol it can go pop.
Defective because of a Manufacturing error is another story.
Why all this ranting.
Todd many of us here will recognise how your style differs from most English consumers, points noted thanks.

Tuan, were you got Naim must have set the amp up wrong,( heat tolernace is poor) laugh..........just keep listening to the stuff and forget the rest.

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My point is that if your speakers have low impedance (~4 ohm or less) and you want to play loud, the NAP250 WILL get hot and you have to pay more attention to the setup to allow more room around the amp for air circulation and YES, the NAP250 has cooling problem compare to the NAP135, NAP145V, NAP300 and NAP500. Those with cooling fan can be driven harder. This is no laughing matter. You should know your speaker and your listening habit before buying the amplifier.

Geoff, you are spot on. Your view (and technique) are probably borne out of the fact that you are a civilised gentleman. You take the approach that will most likely yield the best results for you in the fastest time with the least stress. ‘Principal’ is irrelevant compared to what is practical when it comes to getting round a problem.

We are a dying breed.

Graham.

Be kind, what goes round comes round.

Todd - sorry to hear about the amp - it must be really deflating to splashout out $$$ and then have it go wrong.
However, Naim kit mostly seems reliable and there isn't any history of major problems and there's a booming s/h market to add weight to that (most of my system is s/h).
Also fortunately you've got a fallback (Nait).
As others have said, it is under warranty, and Naim should see you right.
I'd see how that after-sales service pans out for you before making snap decisions about whether or not you'll ever buy again, etc.
Remember, it's in Naim's (and your dealer's) interests to make sure you're happy.
Hope it works out.

Paul Rowlands

You are spot on. I complain for a living and I soon learnt that the best approach is to state something along the line " this is wrong so what can be done to put it right." You have to give the other guy room to manourve and make it clear it is a joint problem and not just his. It may appear to be slightly subservient but it gets the quickest and best results.

Also let it be clear that if he does a good job in putting it right, you will reward that effort either in the form of a letter to his boss or good publicity.

The worse thing anyone can do is to play the trump card of " I will never buy your crap again" because you have killed all incentive. That is the final card to play never the first.

Regards

Mick

The thread title clearly say's "new". Not until one reads the OP carefully does one discover that Todd enjoyed 5 months of music from his '250. I can't really see that Naim is responsible for such delayed misfortune. They made their choice of component and it survived not only in your own amp for 5 months but the many, many others that have not gone "Kaboom". Which sounds like an exageration in this case anyway.
To put loudspeaker loads into perspective: My '180 case used to get quite warm (though never hot) to the touch when driving my Kans and passive subwoofers in parallel at high levels for long periods on rock music. It must have been seeing about 2 ohms!(?) It never sounded distressed or ever tripped. The heatsinks on the back of my previous A&R A60 used to glow in the dark as the amp grew slowly quieter over a few months. Though admittedly it never sounded "off", tripped or blew a fuse either.
I now have a (very) slight worry about leaving my system warmed up. Having recently taken the advice and left it on I have been enjoying the music far more. As witnessed by the stack of CDs I've listened to sitting nearby but not yet filed away. (In case I want to hear them again)
But realistically, when you think of the billions of TVs and videos either on standby or running continuously when the owner is out....just like my own...

Nime

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

First law of problem cause dtermination is to follow Kepner Tregoes maxim - of "what has changed"

In the case of the 250 it appears that the speakers have been changed and the speaker cables re fitted.

What else has happened?

Derek

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First law of problem cause dtermination is to follow Kepner Tregoes maxim - of "what has changed"

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Kepner Tregoes , not words you hear all that often but when you have a problem then KT is one of the better ways to crack it.

Roy

I have had a related experience this year. I have comparetivly limited disposable income, but was overjoyed to personally audition an excellent used CD3 (a perfect "fit" for my Nait 3/Flatcap2)this past June. In excellent condition and the personal audition assured me it was operating fine. Brought it home, used for 6 days (!) and started not loading discs or skipping if it did load (and yes, it did't cost 1/10th of 15,000, but frankly, frustration, in my experience, has no price tag). Contacted Steve at NANA. He sent me a hand-made (by him) transport insert so I could forward it to NANA for repairs. By the time I got the insert, packaged and sent the CD3, was notified of the costs (approx 400 US,added to the purchase price, making for a rather expensive 10 yr old CD3) and it was repaired and returned, it was the first week of September.

Pleased to have it back and operational, I hooked it up and used it endlessly, until 8 weeks later on Nov 4 ..... and you guessed it, transport broke (skipping and loading). I was deeply frustrated and fired off an email to Steve asking for warranty repair info and salvage info. He wrote me a nice note indicating the repairs were covered for 1 year parts and labor (very decent warranty, in my opinion) and indicated "new" parts do break from time to time .... yes, I realize more likely with a cdp than an amp ... and asking me to ship it to Chicago and, if it was the transport, it would be replaced no charge. I got a call last Thur from Steve, the unit is repaired .. transport ..and scheduled to arrive in Pdx on Christmas Eve.

My point, I guess, is that even with all the frustration and time consumed with out the CD3 (available less than 9 weeks in the past 7 months), I was very satisfied with NANA, especially Steve, and the way the whole situation was handled, very professionly.

I love my audio equipment/music a great, great deal. But I have been forced to put it in perspective ... my health came with no warranty, and this year, it too broke twice, and is unlikely to last as long as the repaired CD3. Give your dealer and/or NANA a chance to rectify the situation (a process you have started)... it is my hope they treat you resonably, which is all you can ask.

The odds of X,Y,Z brand amps breaking are exactly the same, and maybe you would be the unfortunate owner of that particular piece of equipment.

I personally think Steve and NANA and NAIM are terrific, they have my most sincere thanks.
And best wishes for a quick resolution to your situation and a pleasant holidays.


Jeff A

Once again, I must thank all of you lovely Brits for your commendable obeisance to your favorite consumer products manufacturer. It brings a nice, warm feeling to my heart. Really. All these rejoinders for me throwing a “tantrum” really made me think. (Though I’d like to see where I resorted to profanity in my complaints about Naim, Geoff P. Patrick, what a truly witty comment about my neck! Are you a professional humorist?) And Mick, I guess I’m not convinced that you are a master negotiator. NANA arranged to have a new 250 delivered to me this week, possibly by Tuesday. Perhaps had I been as polite as you always are I’d have it today?

To NANA’s credit, they greatly outdid themselves. I was more than willing to wait a week or two. I was not expecting my post to result directly in this result, which I believe it did. Their service is remarkable. This may very well result in my reordering my next upgrade from a new tuner (most likely from Magnum Dynalab) to a Hi-Cap. And I must once again say that I had no problem with my dealer. She was great and has earned my repeat business, irrespective of what brand I buy.

Incidentally, the reason I used the word “new” in my initial post was to differentiate from the olive kit, not to mean that it is brand new, though I thought the initial post did that.


"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

[This message was edited by Todd Arola on SUNDAY 21 December 2003 at 16:20.]

Todd

Glad to hear NANA have sorted something out for you to your satisfaction. No doubt HQ in Salisbury would have sorted something out first thing Monday morning, when they returned from the weekend.

The Naim service backup is exceptional. Mark and Sheila and the rest do a great job for us over here.

It would appear you have just been rather unlucky with your 250 - but at least it's under warranty still.

Stuart

Nice one.
(BTW, I think 5 months is still "new"!)

Paul Rowlands

Ye Gods and Little Fishes! I didn't think that I would ever live long enough to ever agree with Mick, but there you are, some things are possible! But I mustn't let it get to be a habit but on a slightly more serious note I'm very pleased, Todd that you have received from Naim the kind service that we would have expected from the good people at Naim. Their reputation as a company did not come about by lack of customer care or sloppy products. Personally I must say that in well over twenty years use of Naims products, I have never had a failure of any sort, nor reason to complain about any the responces to some of the strange query's that I have made to Naim over the years.
oldie.

todd: i more or less predicted the outcome of the problem you had with your 250II.

you see, i have had all manner of problems with my naim system over the years -- i hasten to add that NONE of the problems have been as a result of naim equipment failure.

but each time i have been in touch with naim, often in unhelpful frantic panic, i have been treated sympathetically, couteously and professionally and the problems resolved speedily. unbelievable.

thats more than i can say for my IT suppliers --ever since my favourite company (dan technology) went belly-up. and i dont start me on problems with my car dealer...

all is well than ends well...

enjoy

ken

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Originally posted by Todd Arola:
Once again, I must thank all of you lovely Brits for your commendable obeisance to your favorite consumer products manufacturer. It brings a nice, warm feeling to my heart. Really. All these rejoinders for me throwing a “tantrum” really made me think. (Though I’d like to see where I resorted to profanity in my complaints about Naim, Geoff P. Patrick, what a truly witty comment about my neck! Are you a professional humorist?) And Mick, I guess I’m not convinced that you are a master negotiator. NANA arranged to have a new 250 delivered to me this week, possibly by Tuesday. Perhaps had I been as polite as you always are I’d have it today?

To NANA’s credit, they greatly outdid themselves. I was more than willing to wait a week or two. I was not expecting my post to result directly in this result, which I believe it did. Their service is remarkable. This may very well result in my reordering my next upgrade from a new tuner (most likely from Magnum Dynalab) to a Hi-Cap. And I must once again say that I had no problem with my dealer. She was great and has earned my repeat business, irrespective of what brand I buy.

Incidentally, the reason I used the word “new” in my initial post was to differentiate from the olive kit, not to mean that it is brand new, though I thought the initial post did that.


"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_

[This message was edited by Todd Arola on SUNDAY 21 December 2003 at 16:20.]

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Todd

From an engineering view point the blown-up NAP250 has a lot more value than the brand new one since it will provide information that may be used to improve the product line. In an engineering company, we love to see how the product fail in real test. Naim Audio will love to have your NAP250 back.

One of the great things about buying hi-fi from companies peopled by enthusiasts - Densen, Dynavector, Naim, in my experience - is that they never fail to deal with problems with real understanding and sympathy. Never once with these companies have I suspected the phoney mask of customer service training - these people are genuine.

Squeeky wheel gets the oil.

Yes, Naim did come through for you, Todd. But now you have to break in a new amp. Oh, the inconvenience of it all

Sadly, lost respect for you on this one.

Todd,

Sorry about the Kaboom. We made arrangements that should get you your good sound back asap. A 250 has so many parts in it that no one can guarantee that each one will be totally reliable over time. But, thankfully, Naim is one of the most reliable products in our industry, according to our dealers, and the amps are extremely reliable. Hardly matters when you have just experienced bad smells.

Thank you for giving us a chance to remedy the situation.

Chris K, nana

Hi Todd,

Sorry to hear of the misfortune with your NAP250.

I'm glad that NANA seem to be well on the case for you.

Richard

I think you took that out of context. What I mean is when you are trying to resolve a complaint or problem, suggesting a mutually acceptable resolution is far more likely to succeed than demanding something 'on principal'

Graham.

Be kind, what goes round comes round.

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Originally posted by J.N.:

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Hi Todd,

Sorry to hear of the misfortune with your NAP250.

I'm glad that NANA seem to be well on the case for you.

Richard

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There you go Todd - that's how it's done.

Old fashioned good manners.

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So, why was the original ending of "Got It?" deleted. Let me guess: not an example of good British manners? (And then you deleted the whole post, huh?)


"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

You sound like a spoiled and selfish american, mr Arola. Cool down.

/Erik

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Originally posted by Erik:
You sound like a spoiled and selfish american, mr Arola. Cool down.

Erik

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Ah, well, thank you for your obviously dispassionate assessment.


"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations