My new 250 just went KABOOM!
Posted by: Todd A on 19 December 2003
My new-style NAP 250 that I've been enjoying since May just went KABOOM! More specifically, I was sitting there, listening to Ivo Pogorelich play Chopin's B-minor scherzo at a moderately loud volume, then, then, I heard a really, really loud clank and smelled something burning. I thought it was the Joseph, but when I hurriedly plugged my MA in and - nope, 'twas the 250. All is unplugged and ready to be taken back to the stereo shop tomorrow.
Needless to say, I'm very displeased at spending over $4000 on an amp to have it blow up during a solo piano piece played at a volume lower than I usually listen at. If my speaker is damaged, I'll be really pissed, and I will never buy Naim again. I certainly hope that the folks in Chicago can fix this quickly so I won't have to listen to too many of my Christmas operas through my Nait.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
Needless to say, I'm very displeased at spending over $4000 on an amp to have it blow up during a solo piano piece played at a volume lower than I usually listen at. If my speaker is damaged, I'll be really pissed, and I will never buy Naim again. I certainly hope that the folks in Chicago can fix this quickly so I won't have to listen to too many of my Christmas operas through my Nait.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
Posted on: 25 December 2003 by NaimDropper
quote:
And I suspect the gender of a presenter at a hifi demonstration has absolutely no meaningful bearing on the dem.
Why not? Cable direction, mains quality, equipment supports, fuses, run-in of boxes and various wires and a host of other thing all are proported to have a bearing on "the dem" and they do to some degree or another. So why not gender of the presenter?
Anyone done a blind study? (Why would you if the presenter was attractive?)
I'd be more likely to buy from someone I found attractive...
OK, I'll stop now. Sorry for the hijack.
This forum is about the music, Naim gear and the personalities, after all.
David
Posted on: 26 December 2003 by Nime
A real minefield here: 
Would it be just as insulting if you described an attractive female hifi demonstrator as "drop dead gorgeous"? Though it would certainly irritate at least a proportion of your readers.
I have a slight human-behavioural problem here. With whether a person can, or cannot use their appearance to 'sell' themselves or a product. Why should one draw the line at accepting intelligence in any individual? Yet dismiss those given the gift of sexual attraction instead? Both are genetically pre-ordained before birth. Why should one particular human quality be subordinate to another? Carried to its logical conslusion one might assume that the brightest (and thus most successful) amongst us get the most attractive partners. So the human race gets a prettier and more intelligent blond(e). Would this affect their taste in hifi?
But back to the plot: With a rather tentative figure of 4% of the population being gay. The presence of an 'effeminate male' demonstrator is at least catering to a not-insignificant fraction of the hifi buying public. However innocent the demonstrator himself might be in all of this. And assuming he did not actually put huge numbers of homophobics off the product.
So why aren't all high-end, hifi sales persons knowledgable, attractive women? (If only men are supposed to buy hifi to fit the usual stereotype). Presumably intelligent, attractive women can make more money doing something much more interesting or useful?
Interesting parallel here with the TNT piece on "Sex & HIFI" (Editor's corner '01). I rarely see hifi magazines these days. But I doubt things have changed much. Whether one believes in using sex to sell absolutely everything is no longer left to the consumer these days. Unless he, or she, chooses to boycott that particular product on principle. But would anybody else notice?
Nime
Everyone has the right to be wrong.
Would it be just as insulting if you described an attractive female hifi demonstrator as "drop dead gorgeous"? Though it would certainly irritate at least a proportion of your readers.
I have a slight human-behavioural problem here. With whether a person can, or cannot use their appearance to 'sell' themselves or a product. Why should one draw the line at accepting intelligence in any individual? Yet dismiss those given the gift of sexual attraction instead? Both are genetically pre-ordained before birth. Why should one particular human quality be subordinate to another? Carried to its logical conslusion one might assume that the brightest (and thus most successful) amongst us get the most attractive partners. So the human race gets a prettier and more intelligent blond(e). Would this affect their taste in hifi?
But back to the plot: With a rather tentative figure of 4% of the population being gay. The presence of an 'effeminate male' demonstrator is at least catering to a not-insignificant fraction of the hifi buying public. However innocent the demonstrator himself might be in all of this. And assuming he did not actually put huge numbers of homophobics off the product.
So why aren't all high-end, hifi sales persons knowledgable, attractive women? (If only men are supposed to buy hifi to fit the usual stereotype). Presumably intelligent, attractive women can make more money doing something much more interesting or useful?
Interesting parallel here with the TNT piece on "Sex & HIFI" (Editor's corner '01). I rarely see hifi magazines these days. But I doubt things have changed much. Whether one believes in using sex to sell absolutely everything is no longer left to the consumer these days. Unless he, or she, chooses to boycott that particular product on principle. But would anybody else notice?
Nime
Everyone has the right to be wrong.
Posted on: 26 December 2003 by HTK
quote:
Originally posted by NaimDropper:
Too much Political Correctness and this forum would be very boring. David
No worries David. The last thing this forum will ever be is PC. Sometimes it's hard to believe it's moderated.
For example, here's just a few examples of posts in the short jokes thread:
Japanese bus conductor; he say.......
"Nippon"
A blind man walks into a fish shop,
"Evening Ladies"
How is a fat chick like a moped?
Fun to ride till your friends see it.
What's 40 feet long and stinks of Piss ?
A line dance in an old peoples home
Q: How can you tell when a blonde is dating?
A: By the buckle print on her forehead.
Q: How do you describe the perfect blonde?
A: 3 feet tall, no teeth, and a flat head to rest your beer on.
As he walked along a path, he saw a big sign which read, "Beware of Gays." A little further along he saw another sign which read the same thing "Beware of Gays." He continued walking until he came to a small clearing which had a bronze plaque set in the ground.
He bent over to read the plaque and it said, "Sorry....You've had two warnings!"
Q: "What should a girl who wants to attract men wear behind her ears" ?
A: "Her ankles"
q) What do you do if your kitchen lightbulb goes?
a) Nothing - the bitch can cook in the dark.
q) What's the useless flap of skin around a vagina called?
a) The woman
Q. What did Stevie Wonder say when asked by Rolling Stone magazine how he had been so successful in spite of his blindness
A. "Well I might be blind, BUT AT LEAST I AINT A NIGGER"
I think all the boneheads will be safe in here!
Just to balance it a bit, here's something that's been doing the rounds:
Merry Christmas
From me ("the Wishor") to you ("hereinafter called the Wishees")
Please accept without obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, politically correct, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all, and a financially successful, personally fulfilling, work/life balanced and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2004, but with due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures or sects, and having regard to the race, creed, colour, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform or dietary preference of the Wishees.
By accepting this greeting you are bound by these terms that-
This greeting is subject to further clarification or withdrawal
This greeting is freely transferable provided that no alteration shall be made to the original greeting and that the proprietary rights of the Wishor are acknowledged.
This greeting implies no promise by the Wishor to actually implement any of the wishes.
This greeting may not be enforceable in certain jurisdictions and/or the restrictions herein may not be binding upon certain Wishees in certain jurisdictions and is revocable at the sole discretion of the Wishor.
This greeting is warranted to perform as reasonably may be expected within the usual application of good tidings, for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first.
The Wishor warrants this greeting only for the limited replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the Wishor.
Any references in this greeting to "the Lord", "Father Christmas", "Our Saviour", or any other festive figures, whether actual or fictitious, dead or alive, shall not imply any endorsement by or from them in respect of this greeting, and all proprietary rights in any referenced third party names and images are hereby acknowledged.
Cheers
Harry
Posted on: 26 December 2003 by herm
quote:
Originally posted by Derek Wright:
The mods are English and so am I (for my sins)
Most likely Doug Graham would disagree.
Perhaps the word you were looking for is British.
Herman
Posted on: 26 December 2003 by Derek Wright
Herm
ACtually - I was thinking of Richard D as the moderator -
Derek
<< >>
ACtually - I was thinking of Richard D as the moderator -
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 26 December 2003 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by Nime:
But I doubt things have changed much.
No. Boys will be always boys.
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by JeremyD
quote:Whatever bigoted views are in people's minds is their own concern. When they express those views on a public forum it becomes ours. If such people can be encouraged to behave as if they were civilised human beings then we can treat them like civilised human beings. Even engaging them in debate can be of benefit in highlighting just how disingenuous the offenders are:
Originally posted by kuma:
What difference does it make? Even if mods take those slurring posts, you can't erase prejudice out of people's mind.
J.N.:
quote:Derek Wright:
...why are you perceiving 'effeminate' in a negative way?
quote:One can only assume that this pair of gentlemen will not object to being described as "effeminate" in future.
...I did not see it as offensive or demeaning - just describing an attribute of the person...
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by Derek Wright
If I behaved in such a way - why not
I object to a group claiming words as special for their group and redefining the meaning or implication of the use of the words.
- in my Oxford Dictionary is gives the meaning as
womanish, voluptuous - no reference to disaproving
Derek
<< >>
I object to a group claiming words as special for their group and redefining the meaning or implication of the use of the words.
- in my Oxford Dictionary is gives the meaning as
womanish, voluptuous - no reference to disaproving
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by Phil Barry
Derek, In the US, 'effeminate' applied to a man is almost always negative. It's just another form of 'sissy' or 'girly man'. And if it were all that neutral a term in the UK, perhaps you wouldn't mind it being applied to you even if it were inaccurate. Remember - to many US citizens, all Brits are effeminate.
Sure, there are cases in which the term is used only descriptively, with no normative implication - but, again, my bet is that the writer who described the effeminate presenter at the presentation was either uncomfortable about or contempuous of the effeminacy - and allowing that sort of emotion into the description was unnecessary.
Regards.
Phil
Sure, there are cases in which the term is used only descriptively, with no normative implication - but, again, my bet is that the writer who described the effeminate presenter at the presentation was either uncomfortable about or contempuous of the effeminacy - and allowing that sort of emotion into the description was unnecessary.
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by Derek Wright
Phil
This is where I came in on this in pointing out to Jay that although we share a common language we are in fact divided by it.
The US view of the Brits - well we would expect that of you <g> but so what, I am sure that the Brits that do not know any "Yanks" have similarly uninformed opinions.
What I was trying to do was to re assure Jay that the mods are not part of a conspiracy to support a homophobic campaign but are behaving within the bounds UK normal behaviour which is reasonably relaxed on the subject. Observe the number of gay politicians and broadcasters that are an accepted part of UK life - it is what they contribute that counts. Their names are not prefixed with an abusive or divisive term.
Enough
Derek
<< >>
This is where I came in on this in pointing out to Jay that although we share a common language we are in fact divided by it.
The US view of the Brits - well we would expect that of you <g> but so what, I am sure that the Brits that do not know any "Yanks" have similarly uninformed opinions.
What I was trying to do was to re assure Jay that the mods are not part of a conspiracy to support a homophobic campaign but are behaving within the bounds UK normal behaviour which is reasonably relaxed on the subject. Observe the number of gay politicians and broadcasters that are an accepted part of UK life - it is what they contribute that counts. Their names are not prefixed with an abusive or divisive term.
Enough
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by JeremyD
quote:Welcome to the forum, SM.
Originally posted by SM:
I also told him what these amps are going for now and his bottom jaw hit the floor...Been a while since he'd priced one out...
Actually, the 250 in question is a new design, which is supposed to be considerably better than the old 250. In fact, some on the forum have said that the 200, which is the replacement for the 180, is in some ways better than the old 250, so there may be less reason to be shocked by the price. [I have heard neither and know the price of neither so I have no opinion on any of these questions].
You can find out more about the current Naim range by clicking the "Naim Audio Main Website" link at the top of this page.
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by Phil Barry
Now I'm really mad. The nerve of some people - dragging the thread back on track!
Thanks for your clarification, Derek.
Regards.
Phil
Thanks for your clarification, Derek.
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by HTK
quote:
Originally posted by Derek Wright:
Phil
Observe the number of gay politicians and broadcasters that are an accepted part of UK life - it is what they contribute that counts.
Wow! How very big of us. Arn't we all grown up and sophisticated? A politician is a politician and a broadcaster is a broadcaster. Putting "gay" in front of either kind of gives the game away doesn't it?
Cheers
Harry
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by HTK
I just don't like gay bashers, women haters, racists and other narrow minded low life. I don't agree with censorship per se either. So those who dish it out and try to rationalise it are going to have to lump it.
Cheers
Harry
Cheers
Harry
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by Derek Wright
Harry
Good job of selective quoting you made to make your own point - quote the whole message and then see if you can make the same point
Don't like ..... bashers - neither do I
Derek
<< >>
Good job of selective quoting you made to make your own point - quote the whole message and then see if you can make the same point
Don't like ..... bashers - neither do I
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by HTK
Fair point Derek, but it don't change nothing. Some of us are poles apart on this one and that won't change. Free speach and all that - just so long as everyone gets a shout. Which we self evidently have.
Cheers
Harry
Cheers
Harry
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by prowla
How the hell did a thread about a defective 250 get on to queer(sorry - I mean gay) bashing?
Paul Rowlands
Paul Rowlands
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Rockingdoc
quote:
Originally posted by HTK:
I just don't like gay bashers, women haters, racists and other narrow minded low life.
Cheers
Harry
Er, I think you might be on the wrong forum then. I ran away in horror from some of the "people" who post here about a year ago, but morbid facination has drawn me back. I feel it to be similar to looking at porn sites on the web (which I don't actually do).
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by HTK
I get your drift Rockingdoc. I balance it against the excellent spread of information, opinions and advice - on HiFi. Makes me wonder what Naim's politics are though. Could be that they're doing so well that they can afford any negative publicity which could arise from hosting such dubious material. It's also a side effect of running a successful forum.
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Geoff P
Harry
As a former Devonshire lad, I lived in Plymouth for 30 years, I was always a little incensed by the fact that the typical Devonian "Oh Arr" accent was associated with being dim witted and used in that way as a comedy tool by British televison ( it was often used in adverts in that fashion aswell).
This is just one example of the "innocent" cruelty that can be levelled at ethnic groups and people that don't fit an exact & boring mold.
In reality we are all individuals with our own rough edges which react quickly to implied slurs, and our own smooth areas which are unphazed by something because that particular subject does'nt bother us.
The moderators of this forum would go nuts trying to avoid that minefield, basically because somebody is always going to be upset about something that gets to them individually. If you tried to make a list of forbidden expressions and topics it would be endless.
I think the freedom of expression allowed here is refreshing.
Geoff
As a former Devonshire lad, I lived in Plymouth for 30 years, I was always a little incensed by the fact that the typical Devonian "Oh Arr" accent was associated with being dim witted and used in that way as a comedy tool by British televison ( it was often used in adverts in that fashion aswell).
This is just one example of the "innocent" cruelty that can be levelled at ethnic groups and people that don't fit an exact & boring mold.
In reality we are all individuals with our own rough edges which react quickly to implied slurs, and our own smooth areas which are unphazed by something because that particular subject does'nt bother us.
The moderators of this forum would go nuts trying to avoid that minefield, basically because somebody is always going to be upset about something that gets to them individually. If you tried to make a list of forbidden expressions and topics it would be endless.
I think the freedom of expression allowed here is refreshing.
Geoff
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Paul Ranson
What word is being suggested to replace 'effeminate'? Are we also deleting 'masculine', 'butch' and 'hairy chested'?
I find the ignorance and intolerance of the 'politically correct' very depressing. I think 'commissar' resonates better with their instincts.
Paul
I find the ignorance and intolerance of the 'politically correct' very depressing. I think 'commissar' resonates better with their instincts.
Paul
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by tartarus
Would that be the NAP 150 is slightly effeminate? Whereas the NAP 500 is butch?
Alternatively, is "listening to Ivo Pogorelich play Chopin's B-minor scherzo at a moderately loud volume", is this mildly "jocund"? Whereas, shaking the house down at 100+ decibels, is this "loud" or just garish and vulgar?
Be PC or not, does it really matter, as long a people have a sense of humour, decency, and integrity? The real issue is "was the 250 fixed FOC and returned to its owner ASAP".
Keep to the point...
Alternatively, is "listening to Ivo Pogorelich play Chopin's B-minor scherzo at a moderately loud volume", is this mildly "jocund"? Whereas, shaking the house down at 100+ decibels, is this "loud" or just garish and vulgar?
Be PC or not, does it really matter, as long a people have a sense of humour, decency, and integrity? The real issue is "was the 250 fixed FOC and returned to its owner ASAP".
Keep to the point...
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by London Lad
Geoff P.
Ditto Ditto !
Coming form Essex I'm normaly a spiv and my other half is a tart, but I don't let it worry me!
Graham.
Not a lad any longer and not from London!
Ditto Ditto !
Coming form Essex I'm normaly a spiv and my other half is a tart, but I don't let it worry me!
Graham.
Not a lad any longer and not from London!
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by HTK
I can relate Geoff. I was born in London but grew up in Westcliff. My folks still live there. Sorry to drift off topic again but I noticed your location.
Cheers
Harry
Cheers
Harry
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by herm
quote:
Originally posted by tartarus:
Would that be the NAP 150 is slightly effeminate? Whereas the NAP 500 is butch?
NAP 500: mega hairy-chested
Herman