Understanding 20th Century Music
Posted by: mikeeschman on 19 September 2009
Before the 20th century, musical style underwent numerous refinements. From the strict forms of dance music in the renaissance, to sonata form, to the evolution of the Coda, music expanded in terms of what was possible in organizing a piece of music.
Berlioz introduced a new idea to the mix, by organizing instrumental music around a literary plot line. This was always important in vocal music, and would be important to music for dance in the 20th century.
The first truly great dance music is the music of Stravinsky. He devised means of inter-relating themes in a way that would enhance the story line, in fact amplifying the emotion of that moment in the story, that was fresh, unique and instantly understandable. The fact that he did so while fabricating a new musical sensibility that is totally coherent is one of the miracles of the 20th century.
Geoff P, I know you have been absorbing Stravinsky for a while. Now it is time to say something :-)
George, I think I understand why I gravitated to Stravinsky at a young age, and why you have still not made that connection.
Stravinsky expresses himself in the winds to a far greater degree than any of the music you listen to.
I am urging you to walk on the wild side, and give a critical ear to what your brother musicians do with their wind instruments.
There is a lot here to enjoy :-)
And to anyone else reading this : what is your take on 20th century music?
Berlioz introduced a new idea to the mix, by organizing instrumental music around a literary plot line. This was always important in vocal music, and would be important to music for dance in the 20th century.
The first truly great dance music is the music of Stravinsky. He devised means of inter-relating themes in a way that would enhance the story line, in fact amplifying the emotion of that moment in the story, that was fresh, unique and instantly understandable. The fact that he did so while fabricating a new musical sensibility that is totally coherent is one of the miracles of the 20th century.
Geoff P, I know you have been absorbing Stravinsky for a while. Now it is time to say something :-)
George, I think I understand why I gravitated to Stravinsky at a young age, and why you have still not made that connection.
Stravinsky expresses himself in the winds to a far greater degree than any of the music you listen to.
I am urging you to walk on the wild side, and give a critical ear to what your brother musicians do with their wind instruments.
There is a lot here to enjoy :-)
And to anyone else reading this : what is your take on 20th century music?
Posted on: 07 October 2009 by mudwolf
yes I understand your dislike of Atonal and Serial music. I've not heard many and don't collect them. Tho I've heard some short pieces by Webern I thought quite beautiful. One Ojai concert by Uchida had some very short pieces, maybe 9 notes each that she alternated with Schubert studies of the same length. I couldn't tell them apart. Stunning piece but never seen it recorded.
But I keep my passion for this music under wraps because true classicists damn and condemn me and spend 10 minutes ripping it to shreds. But still put on music for 18 musicians by Reich and I can float.
years ago on radio a DJ pops in an interesting work between endless Mozart and Romantics, I heard an Atonal piece by Copeland, for piano and Quartet on the radio, Stunning work, but it was austere. I never found the piece on CD.
I like minimalist work but tend to like having visuals with it. Glass has done music for movies. Reich programmed an Ojai weekend that was incredible 2 years ago. But my fave is John Adams. Not everything is great, but he's broken out of that mould with melodies and orchestral coloration and always takes me someplace else, and yet keeps that pulsing beat underneath. I hope he drops that sometime and really experiments beyond that, something like Mahler.
At the Minimalist Jukebox put on 4 years ago the last concert was Adams conducting Glass 4 Songs from Anknahten which were really delicate and colorful with Male and Female sopranos. After intermission He played his work from that period Harmoniliergh (sp?) It was so muscular it just thrilled the crowd, good ending to the event.
But I keep my passion for this music under wraps because true classicists damn and condemn me and spend 10 minutes ripping it to shreds. But still put on music for 18 musicians by Reich and I can float.
years ago on radio a DJ pops in an interesting work between endless Mozart and Romantics, I heard an Atonal piece by Copeland, for piano and Quartet on the radio, Stunning work, but it was austere. I never found the piece on CD.
I like minimalist work but tend to like having visuals with it. Glass has done music for movies. Reich programmed an Ojai weekend that was incredible 2 years ago. But my fave is John Adams. Not everything is great, but he's broken out of that mould with melodies and orchestral coloration and always takes me someplace else, and yet keeps that pulsing beat underneath. I hope he drops that sometime and really experiments beyond that, something like Mahler.
At the Minimalist Jukebox put on 4 years ago the last concert was Adams conducting Glass 4 Songs from Anknahten which were really delicate and colorful with Male and Female sopranos. After intermission He played his work from that period Harmoniliergh (sp?) It was so muscular it just thrilled the crowd, good ending to the event.
Posted on: 08 October 2009 by mikeeschman
Two 20th century composers I have a lively interest in are Messiaen and Charles Ives.
The "Quartet for the End of Time" by Messiaen is one of the great 20th century chamber works, and pieces like "Illuminations From the Beyond" have an interesting, if incomprehensible, sound that invites further study.
Charles Ives is simply as much fun as a barrel of monkeys. My favorite is Bernstein/NYPhil doing "Central Park in the Dark".
The "Quartet for the End of Time" by Messiaen is one of the great 20th century chamber works, and pieces like "Illuminations From the Beyond" have an interesting, if incomprehensible, sound that invites further study.
Charles Ives is simply as much fun as a barrel of monkeys. My favorite is Bernstein/NYPhil doing "Central Park in the Dark".
Posted on: 08 October 2009 by Manni
Olivier Messiaen: Apparition de l`Église éternelle
One of my organ favorites!
Best wishes
Manfred
One of my organ favorites!
Best wishes
Manfred
Posted on: 09 October 2009 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by mudwolf:
yes I understand your dislike of Atonal and Serial music. I've not heard many and don't collect them. Tho I've heard some short pieces by Webern I thought quite beautiful.
Most serial music is not my cup of tea, but I do love Webern's music for string quartet, especially the Six Bagatelles. I really like the recording by the Emerson Quartet.
As for Berg, I like his pre-serial violin concerto very much ... straddling the gray area between tonality and atonality.
Fred
Posted on: 10 October 2009 by mikeeschman
This morning, I gave a listen to Messiaen's "Illuminations of the Beyond", on DGG with Chung conducting.
It's music that is attractive and compelling, with tension and release, ebb and flow, and a sense of melody. But after a while, it can make you fidget. One reason for this is the absence of meter. Some fragments are strictly metered, but they are flotsam on a sea without bar lines. At least, that is how it strikes me.
Track 3, "L'Oiseau-lyre et la Ville-fiancee", caught me off my guard with it's Broadway sensibility, somehow bringing Bernstein to mind. In this movement, the metered fragments are longer, and interact frequently.
I can't imagine anyone sitting down for a listen without objectives, but rather on a whim or a mood, and staying engaged with this work. You have to bring a certain frame of mind to the work when you listen.
That seems too much work for a leisure time activity, requiring the level of commitment of a full fledged hobby.
Really great music lets you swing anywhere between these poles as whim and mood dictate.
As music, "Illuminations of the Beyond" makes me feel like it's trying too hard. It's been thought to death.
But it stays in your head, and is full of tunes you could hum. But be warned, if you do people will stare :-)
It's music that is attractive and compelling, with tension and release, ebb and flow, and a sense of melody. But after a while, it can make you fidget. One reason for this is the absence of meter. Some fragments are strictly metered, but they are flotsam on a sea without bar lines. At least, that is how it strikes me.
Track 3, "L'Oiseau-lyre et la Ville-fiancee", caught me off my guard with it's Broadway sensibility, somehow bringing Bernstein to mind. In this movement, the metered fragments are longer, and interact frequently.
I can't imagine anyone sitting down for a listen without objectives, but rather on a whim or a mood, and staying engaged with this work. You have to bring a certain frame of mind to the work when you listen.
That seems too much work for a leisure time activity, requiring the level of commitment of a full fledged hobby.
Really great music lets you swing anywhere between these poles as whim and mood dictate.
As music, "Illuminations of the Beyond" makes me feel like it's trying too hard. It's been thought to death.
But it stays in your head, and is full of tunes you could hum. But be warned, if you do people will stare :-)
Posted on: 10 October 2009 by mikeeschman
Gave a listen to Boulez and Berlin doing the Mahler Symphony No. 2 on DGG. I bought this CD to have a record of what Berlin sounded like in 2008, as I hadn't an example of their playing since 1996.
I have always admired Boulez for his superb sense of rhythm and orchestral balance. He doesn't disappoint here.
The recording is beautifully voiced and the hall has a nice decay. Sometimes the dynamics seem constrained, but that may be a limitation of my system.
This symphony is best listened to the way you listen to opera. It is simply too long to be listened to as you might a Beethoven symphony.
It is chock full of beautiful moments, and gives a chance to hear every section of the orchestra in full glory. The capacity of the brasses to play chorales is put to good use here, and their capacity for drama is on full display.
If there is an over-arching structure, it is beyond my powers of detection. Others mileage may vary.
Recommended.
I have always admired Boulez for his superb sense of rhythm and orchestral balance. He doesn't disappoint here.
The recording is beautifully voiced and the hall has a nice decay. Sometimes the dynamics seem constrained, but that may be a limitation of my system.
This symphony is best listened to the way you listen to opera. It is simply too long to be listened to as you might a Beethoven symphony.
It is chock full of beautiful moments, and gives a chance to hear every section of the orchestra in full glory. The capacity of the brasses to play chorales is put to good use here, and their capacity for drama is on full display.
If there is an over-arching structure, it is beyond my powers of detection. Others mileage may vary.
Recommended.
Posted on: 11 October 2009 by Nathaniel
I'm a big fan of modern classical music, but appreciate that much of it can be tricky to bond with emotionally. Here are a few pieces of modern music that I love and have found to be emotionally accessible:
--2nd Viennese school--
Schoenberg: String Quartet No. 2 in F sharp minor Op. 10; LaSalle Quartet, Margaret Price.
Pre-serial, but by the end, only just--teetering on the canyon rim. A string quartet with a soprano! It's delicious. (This is the only recording of it I've heard, so can't offer comparatives).
Webern: Passacaglia, 5 Movements Op.5, 6 Pieces Op.6, Symphony Op.21; BPO Karajan
Webern provides arguably the 'easiest' entry into serial music. The crystalline nature tickles your existential angst without battering you. He wrote so little that any single CD will contain something great. I've got the Boulez completes and some others, but have a soft spot for this Karajan BPO single disc.
--Modernist--
Boulez: Repons; Ensemble InterContemporain
Boulez manages to achieve a sensuality in his music (he's very clever with textures/timbres) that some of the other Messiaenic disciples lack, and this is perhaps my fave. I was blown away when the electronics really kick in at the start of track 2.
Ligeti: Works for Piano; Aimard
It's only recently dawned on me just how brilliant Ligeti was. He's been in the avant-guarde of much of the avant-guarde, yet an innate aesthetic beauty is clear in so much of his output. Piano music can be difficult to listen to--you can't seek sanctuary from the atonal bombardment behind rich orchestral textures; even some Debussy can be quite jarring. Yet here's clever music that satisfies on both an intellectual and emotional level. It's modern, yet both Debussy and even Bach are audibly peering out from behind the atonality.
--Minimalist, Post-modernist--
Reich: Music for 18 Musicians; Steve Reich and musicians, 1978.
My favourite minimalist piece. Yes, it's trance music, but what a trance! It's hugely satisfying--just can't get enough of those bass clarinets. Music for 18 Musicians was my introduction to Reich, but no matter how much other Reich I hear, I just can't get a hit as big as this. Reich's original 1978 recording is superior to his 1996 recording and those by others groups like the Ensemble Modern.
Glass: Einstein on the Beach
I like much of Glass's music, but there's no denying it's a bit mind-numbing and samey--nice background music for tedious, repetitive activites! Yet this work reveals something else: I think it's a work of creative genius (perhaps that's down to Wilson?). Not to all tastes though--much of the film music is more obviously appealing (Koyaanisqatsi establishes his style, and remains one of his best film scores that I know). I only have Glass's 2nd Einstein recording (1993, on Nonesuch), which I love, but those in the know say his earlier recording is better.
Part: Fratres, Cantus, Fratres, Tabula Rasa; Kremer, Jarret, Gridenko, Schnittke
Like Reich and Music for 18 Musicians, frankly there's not much point buying more that the one album--after this one, you'll only be disappointed. It's stunning.
--2nd Viennese school--
Schoenberg: String Quartet No. 2 in F sharp minor Op. 10; LaSalle Quartet, Margaret Price.
Pre-serial, but by the end, only just--teetering on the canyon rim. A string quartet with a soprano! It's delicious. (This is the only recording of it I've heard, so can't offer comparatives).
Webern: Passacaglia, 5 Movements Op.5, 6 Pieces Op.6, Symphony Op.21; BPO Karajan
Webern provides arguably the 'easiest' entry into serial music. The crystalline nature tickles your existential angst without battering you. He wrote so little that any single CD will contain something great. I've got the Boulez completes and some others, but have a soft spot for this Karajan BPO single disc.
--Modernist--
Boulez: Repons; Ensemble InterContemporain
Boulez manages to achieve a sensuality in his music (he's very clever with textures/timbres) that some of the other Messiaenic disciples lack, and this is perhaps my fave. I was blown away when the electronics really kick in at the start of track 2.
Ligeti: Works for Piano; Aimard
It's only recently dawned on me just how brilliant Ligeti was. He's been in the avant-guarde of much of the avant-guarde, yet an innate aesthetic beauty is clear in so much of his output. Piano music can be difficult to listen to--you can't seek sanctuary from the atonal bombardment behind rich orchestral textures; even some Debussy can be quite jarring. Yet here's clever music that satisfies on both an intellectual and emotional level. It's modern, yet both Debussy and even Bach are audibly peering out from behind the atonality.
--Minimalist, Post-modernist--
Reich: Music for 18 Musicians; Steve Reich and musicians, 1978.
My favourite minimalist piece. Yes, it's trance music, but what a trance! It's hugely satisfying--just can't get enough of those bass clarinets. Music for 18 Musicians was my introduction to Reich, but no matter how much other Reich I hear, I just can't get a hit as big as this. Reich's original 1978 recording is superior to his 1996 recording and those by others groups like the Ensemble Modern.
Glass: Einstein on the Beach
I like much of Glass's music, but there's no denying it's a bit mind-numbing and samey--nice background music for tedious, repetitive activites! Yet this work reveals something else: I think it's a work of creative genius (perhaps that's down to Wilson?). Not to all tastes though--much of the film music is more obviously appealing (Koyaanisqatsi establishes his style, and remains one of his best film scores that I know). I only have Glass's 2nd Einstein recording (1993, on Nonesuch), which I love, but those in the know say his earlier recording is better.
Part: Fratres, Cantus, Fratres, Tabula Rasa; Kremer, Jarret, Gridenko, Schnittke
Like Reich and Music for 18 Musicians, frankly there's not much point buying more that the one album--after this one, you'll only be disappointed. It's stunning.
Posted on: 11 October 2009 by mudwolf
oh thank you Nathaniel, I have some of these and do love Part and Reich I'll look for the Ligeti. I"ve heard a couple of his works at Disney Hall and enjoyed the as well in the 2001 film, wonderful austere works.
I'll have to dig out Reponse, I have that as my only original Boulez, heard him 2 times at the Ojai festival. and Fratres is a favorite also.
I'll have to dig out Reponse, I have that as my only original Boulez, heard him 2 times at the Ojai festival. and Fratres is a favorite also.
Posted on: 12 October 2009 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by Nathaniel:
Reich: Music for 18 Musicians; Steve Reich and musicians, 1978.
My favourite minimalist piece. Yes, it's trance music, but what a trance! It's hugely satisfying--just can't get enough of those bass clarinets. Music for 18 Musicians was my introduction to Reich, but no matter how much other Reich I hear, I just can't get a hit as big as this. Reich's original 1978 recording is superior to his 1996 recording and those by others groups like the Ensemble Modern.
Part: Fratres, Cantus, Fratres, Tabula Rasa; Kremer, Jarrett, Gridenko, Schnittke
Like Reich and Music for 18 Musicians, frankly there's not much point buying more that the one album--after this one, you'll only be disappointed. It's stunning.
I'm totally with you on both of these, Nathaniel (I assume you mean the ECM recording of Music for 18 Musicians, and if so, I agree).
But I'd also include Reich's more recent You Are (Variations), which makes use of some aspects of his classic minimalism yet expands the harmonic palette to great emotional effect.
And I'd recommend Pärt's Alina, an album consisting of two versions of his piece Für Alina and three versions of Spiegel Im Spiegel ... lovely, luminous, floating music that's emotionally affecting.
All best,
Fred
Posted on: 13 October 2009 by mikeeschman
Tonight I gave a listen to "The Fairy's Kiss" by Stravinsky, on the Stravinsky conducts Stravinsky, The Mono Years 1952-1955. It is a 2 CD Masterworks Heritage set (Columbia).
This mono is a bit dry, and a tad hollow in its acoustic, but instruments are reproduced in all their glory. The shape of the phrase and the articulation are delivered as given, a faithful fidelity. Dynamics are good as well.
The Cambridge Companion to Stravinsky says "The Fairy's Kiss" is the apex of neoclassical music.
It's hard to disagree :-)
The beautiful Tchaikovsky melody and voicing in a form Mozart might have thought up, set like a precious stone within the clarity of Stravinsky.
Pure and unadulterated beauty ...
This mono is a bit dry, and a tad hollow in its acoustic, but instruments are reproduced in all their glory. The shape of the phrase and the articulation are delivered as given, a faithful fidelity. Dynamics are good as well.
The Cambridge Companion to Stravinsky says "The Fairy's Kiss" is the apex of neoclassical music.
It's hard to disagree :-)
The beautiful Tchaikovsky melody and voicing in a form Mozart might have thought up, set like a precious stone within the clarity of Stravinsky.
Pure and unadulterated beauty ...
Posted on: 15 October 2009 by mikeeschman
Listened to Abbado/Berlin do Brahms' "Academic Festival Overture" at some considerable volume, but not too harsh.
I can't hear this without thinking of "Animal House" :-)
It hit the spot.
BTW, very, very 20th Century, as "Animal House" confirms ...
I can't hear this without thinking of "Animal House" :-)
It hit the spot.
BTW, very, very 20th Century, as "Animal House" confirms ...
Posted on: 15 October 2009 by mikeeschman
Followed up with "The Bernstein Songbook".
Hear the original Broadway casts do tunes from "West Side Story", "Candide", "Mass", and "Trouble in Tahiti".
Hear Boris Karloff play Captain Hook in "The Plank Song" from Berstein's "Peter Pan".
Pure 50s' New York.
I need a martini.
Hear the original Broadway casts do tunes from "West Side Story", "Candide", "Mass", and "Trouble in Tahiti".
Hear Boris Karloff play Captain Hook in "The Plank Song" from Berstein's "Peter Pan".
Pure 50s' New York.
I need a martini.
Posted on: 15 October 2009 by mikeeschman
Last of the night :
Reiner/Chicago doing Hovhaness "Mysterious Mountain" on RCA Living Stereo LP LSC-2251.
A beautiful recording, and the birth of a great orchestra. Chicago has never laid a better testament to its essential greatness.
This one is going to stay out awhile.
Reiner/Chicago doing Hovhaness "Mysterious Mountain" on RCA Living Stereo LP LSC-2251.
A beautiful recording, and the birth of a great orchestra. Chicago has never laid a better testament to its essential greatness.
This one is going to stay out awhile.
Posted on: 15 October 2009 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by mikeeschman:
Reiner/Chicago doing Hovhaness "Mysterious Mountain" on RCA Living Stereo LP LSC-2251
I have that very recording, and it's a beauty. Wonderful piece of music.
All best,
Fred
Posted on: 16 October 2009 by mikeeschman
Messiaen : Poemes pour Mi
Boulez/Cleveland/Pollet
Haunting in its beauty, yet still incomprehensible.
Recommended.
Boulez/Cleveland/Pollet
Haunting in its beauty, yet still incomprehensible.
Recommended.
Posted on: 17 October 2009 by mudwolf
I'm all for NY and a martini
Messiaen not so much
Messiaen not so much
Posted on: 17 October 2009 by mikeeschman
Messiaen is a tough sell. I'll hear one piece that knocks my socks off, followed by a dozen pieces that just make me crazy, so I have to eject the CD and find something else.
So far my favorite is the Quartet for the End of Time, highly recommended. One of the great works of the 20th century.
So far my favorite is the Quartet for the End of Time, highly recommended. One of the great works of the 20th century.
Posted on: 17 October 2009 by Nathaniel
Composers must get infuriated--they wrack their intellects constructing fiendishly clever compositions that are soon forgotten, yet the most simple and direct 8-9 minutes of violin soaring over a pulsing piano heart-beat transcends to immortality.
Posted on: 17 October 2009 by mikeeschman
No question, being a composer is a tough way to make a living. You have to be new and fresh, but still give the nod to tradition.
Posted on: 17 October 2009 by paulr0414
Takemitsu - November steps for Orchestra
Posted on: 17 October 2009 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by mikeeschman:
No question, being a composer is a tough way to make a living. You have to be new and fresh, but still give the nod to tradition.
You have no idea just how tough it is. So please do your part ... help a composer out and buy my album!
All best,
Fred Simon
Posted on: 17 October 2009 by mikeeschman
quote:Originally posted by fred simon:quote:Originally posted by mikeeschman:
No question, being a composer is a tough way to make a living. You have to be new and fresh, but still give the nod to tradition.
You have no idea just how tough it is. So please do your part ... help a composer out and buy my album!
All best,
Fred Simon
Done deal Fred, it will be my second album by you.
Posted on: 18 October 2009 by fred simon
Thanks, Mike, I appreciate it. Now if we could only get a few more to follow your example.
Remind me again ... which one do you have? And which will get next?
Thanks,
Fred
Posted on: 18 October 2009 by mikeeschman
I have "Remember the River" and I ordered "Since Forever".
I was so glad to see you on Amazon. I bought "Remember the River" from a crappy little shop in Philadelphia over the internet, and they took three weeks to deliver and got the order wrong the first time.
Amazon is so much quicker and cleaner, and many, many more people will see your work.
You're gonna make so much more money, you'll be able to come here to New Orleans and do a couple of gigs at "Snug Harbor" :-)
I enjoy your music, and feel real pride in buying your work, because of our relationship here on the forum, and the great musical insights you have provided me right here.
My only real complaint would be that I don't hear enough of you here on the forum.
I was so glad to see you on Amazon. I bought "Remember the River" from a crappy little shop in Philadelphia over the internet, and they took three weeks to deliver and got the order wrong the first time.
Amazon is so much quicker and cleaner, and many, many more people will see your work.
You're gonna make so much more money, you'll be able to come here to New Orleans and do a couple of gigs at "Snug Harbor" :-)
I enjoy your music, and feel real pride in buying your work, because of our relationship here on the forum, and the great musical insights you have provided me right here.
My only real complaint would be that I don't hear enough of you here on the forum.
Posted on: 18 October 2009 by mikeeschman
By the way, I got the Emerson Quartet doing the Debussy and Ravel string quartets. As you said, the Ravel is a terrific piece of music. It has a great deal more structure and finesse than the orchestral works I have. Very enjoyable.
This one is getting enough air time here at home so I will have it in the memory bank.
Thanks again Fred.
This one is getting enough air time here at home so I will have it in the memory bank.
Thanks again Fred.