Serious downsizing

Why not unleash your system's full potential by just selling the Mana and getting a decent rack?
John

Tim -

What is it about your system that you believe will be fixed by having a system of lesser components? Do you just not like the Naim sound and want to change brands??? If so, this might not be the best place to ask for advice.

If the sound is a bit ragged and unrefined, try the new series Naim kit in place of the olive stuff. Or ditch the Mana, as has already been suggested. Hey, try the NANA test. Plonk your kit on the carpet and see if you like the result better than on the glass and angle iron.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

I guess it's inevitable that people will ask whether I've tried non-Mana supports, or [insert-your-favorite hifi tweak here] and the answer is yes, I've tried on other things, but no I've not been able to try everything under the sun - because I haven't got time to do that. For some things the system is still unbeatable, but I want a different kind of experience.

I don't want to have to fork out zillions for CDS3's, 552s, 500s and whatnot, but I'm not looking for advice on other brands. I may well stick with a Naim CD player. What I'm really asking is whether anyone else has done something similar and what they felt about it further down the line.

Tim

Ive done one time and regretted it. Wont do it again. Today Im back with an even better system.

Sorry to say it but with a system like that you will be disapointed when you change.

In the beginning I liked it (the downsizing) but after a while I stopped to listen to music. I basicly think that you "ruined" your ears by listen to great hi-fi.

I actually have a friend who started to buy Porsche and now he cant use a regular car...

I think you should ease out a bit and maybe dont wisit this kind of forum for a while...

Jonas

Hi Tim
I have down-sized a couple of times and have not found it to work out. It left me very dis-satisfied with the resultant sound and I ended up upgrading again. I can understand your various thoughts and reasonings but do be careful. If you can, how about packing away your great system and try living with the alternatives for a few months just to see if it works out.
On another note, I have sold and bought from Tom Tom Audio and have found that James is a pleasure to deal with - absolutely straight and gets my personal recommendation if you choose to go this way.
Good luck whatever you do.
Raphael

Ahem; I'll probably get stoned for this, but how about getting rid of just the SBLs and replacing it with something nice? That way, you'll change the presentation of your system (for the better, IMHO) and still retain the basically good system you have now.

And before certain others join in: check your Mana setup (see the website for details). Incorrectly set-up Mana and SBLs are a sure cause of audio dissatisfaction, and maybe even insanity.

Although I don't entirely agree with Markus, I would say that the single biggest change you can bring to the party is the speakers, it might be worth a try, you'll get a fair price on the SBLs on Epay.

Others have downgraded and felt fulfilled in the end, however I suspect that they also stopped visiting this place too!
I had a CDX2, 82/Super/250. I tried tons of speakers. At the end of the day, I believe the system did not represent a good value for the money.
I presently listen to the "other system", a Nait5/FC2/stageline/hi/cd5/Neat Petites. I am quite satisfied with my musical experiences and find that this system is not really a great distance, sound-wise, from where I was. BUT, dollar-wise, I'm all smiles.
Keep in mind that my own experiences have been to climb to the top or near top of many different brand systems over the decades. One can look at my journey in two ways: I either keep downgrading or keep upgrading!
All that said, I have always found the best vfm near the entry level of any brand, and always kick myself in the backside for setting out to prove otherwise. Best of luck.

Tim -

Thank you for your reply I had 72/hi/140 and never got it to work properly. Felt it wasn't good value, but then again never got it to sound good. Others are quite happy with the combo - could've been lack of good supports and lack of dedicated mains.

Ditched it and lived with Sony et al. for about two years. Found I stopped listening to music althogether!!!

Now, like Mr. Shedlock, I'm pleased as punch with Nait 5/FC2 combo and even *cough* a Sony CD player. The CD5 betters it - and in important ways - and is probably my next purchase.

The 202 or 282 would have to do something really special to make the dosh required - in US dollars, which raises the game a bit - seem like good VFM over the Nait 5/FC2 combo.

Oh, and I'm driving Allaes - so the system has nice scale and provides "full range" sound.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Tim,

Have you talked to your Naim dealer about this situation (the dealer the gear was purchased from that is?)

regards,

dave

Two things:
What do you replace it with? Not system wise necessarily, but lifestyle wise. Is this a general cooling of interest in HiFi in general? in which case you are replacing your time listening to music with another passtime. If so, I can see your point.
Ultimately, where does this lead? If you end up starting again, will this lead to future upgrading, which kind of makes the whole process nonsensical? If you downsize, then that's it for good, surely!
I can only imagine that something has entered your life that is more fun than HiFi. This is not downsizing for HiFi's sake, is it?

Tim

I've sent you a Private Topic

redeye

So Tim, how many PT's have you had today offering you cash?

Downsizing The System

Hi Tim

You didn't say what it was that was making you consider letting your excellently-matched system go.

I fall into the camp of "stands to go, first and foremost" in your system context, but the others would and have already cried a little foul, so to each his own. No harm trying what Greg Beatty suggested from NANA - take everything off and plonk it squarely on the floor... who knows?

FWIW : leave the system on, as is, but don't look at it, don't touch it, don't hear it, don't smell it ( ), just "don't anything with it" for the next 1-3 months - the longer duration, the better. I would take a breather and just get on with life without the hi-fi for a while. Live as if you don't have the system, but you really have to be fastidious about this - not even a glance now - and then you'll reach the withdrawal stage one day and decide you want to hear something, some music in the house, and at the point, you might re-discover how "fresh" the sound and the music feels, without dissecting into it. (but this lasts only for a while, I'd admit. )

I am systemless now, having had your exact configuration, and am presently planning a bank heist to "recoup" the Naim system I'm after. But while I had it, I loved what the SBLs did in that system context within my listening room, and I'd wholeheartedly agree with Stuart A's comments on them. You won't find anything that does what the SBLs are good at anywhere near their price, fully optimised as they should be. If your SBLs don't sound anywhere near what you'd be happy with, I would look at their set-up carefully, and I am afraid IMO the wrought iron/glass towers supporting the electronics would have to take a longer break in order to, as John Channing says, unleash your system's fiery potential... (screamin'ly murderous comment, I know, but not meant as a pointed stand bashing, chaps, just a reflection of an opinion based on my experience with having owned them - you'd say otherwise from your experience, but we'd have to agree to disagree. ).

I would invest in the Fraim for your set-up - it makes sense.

Of course, if the excercise is to free up some funds, enjoy the proceeds from the sale.

You'd end up disatisfied eventually though, because your ears would have been "spoilt" to an extent from your dalliances with what you currently own.

Good listening eventually; the music will groove frightfully more.

Rgds

Philip

naimniac for life

Hi,

You may try to combine your Naim electronics (still on Mana) with the legendary LS3/5a's. I use them as a back-up to my NBL's and they are marvelous speakers. Combining LS3/5a's with the AB1 "subwoofer" will give you a resonable extension. If that is not enough, add a Rel subwoofer and you have a magic system.

In my opinion, the combination of the forward presentation of the older Naim electronics/Mana racks with the smother and more "round earth" presentation of the LS3/5a's is a match made in heaven. The 135s will have enough grunt to drive the 11 or 15 ohms load of the LS3/5a properly. As a bonus you will get one of the best mid-ranges in the audio business.

LS3/5a' goes for 300-500 USD on eBay depending on make and load (15 ohm more expensive), the AB1 for little less. There are also a couple of firms who make them today - Stirling Broadcast and Richard Allen (check this site out http://www.ls35a.com/).

Regards

Anders

[This message was edited by Anders on FRIDAY 17 October 2003 at 08:04.]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

The problem isn't the Mana. It's properly and carefully set up. Nonetheless I will try Greg's excellent NANA idea and just plonk it all on the floor tonight. I doubt very much if the problem is the SBLs. Of course they have their detractors, but I love them to bits.

I am now a bit worried about how 'spoilt' my ears have become, but I will go to some more dems and investigate what's out there. What are the odds I end up buying a CDS3?

Tim

quote:

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What are the odds I end up buying a CDS3?

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High enough.

Take a long break. Then come back and have a listen. And enjoy.

Good listening, the music's groovin' frightfully more.

naimniac for life

quote:

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Originally posted by Philip Pang:
you'll reach the withdrawal stage one day and decide you want to hear something, some music in the house, and at the point, you might re-discover how "fresh" the sound and the music feels, without dissecting into it. (but this lasts only for a while, I'd admit. )

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That's sick that is - how can you have a silent house!? I don't know about you, but if I can't get a good musical fix at least once a day I would (probably literally) go insane...

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

PR -

There's nowt wrong with my dealer.

Philip -

The idea of not listening to my system for three months would seem to be a tad self-defeating.

Tim

Tim

If funds permit, how about a second system to go with the big rig? A "more bijou" (nice expression BTW) system could be just the thing - there are many here who love their Naits and Kans, frinstance.

Simplifying is a noble goal. However, throwing the baby out with the bath water is ... a cliche, but you get the idea.

Best,
Davie (still fighting upgradeitis, with a little help from penury)

Don't downgrade - Upgrade!

You don't say just what it is that you don't like about your system.
Can you borrow a 300 for the weekend and see if that makes things better?

"Greg's excellent NANA idea and just plonk it all on the floor tonight."

Of course, *I'm* not suggesting that the floor is "better" than Mana, but the experience may give you an insight to what the stands are doing - good and, perhaps bad - and if the stands are the issue.

I've yet to buy supports, mainly due to the domestic constraint that the kit has to live on top of the tele! Yes, you read it right!

Nonetheless, fiddling with what the kit sat on occupied way too much of my time until I finally bought 10mm glass, ball bearings from the local bike shop, and nuts from the local hardware store. Three nuts, a ball bearing in each nut, and then the glass and kit. I can even *cough* stack kit this way (FC2 on top of Nait 5 for now).

I consider myself fairly picky - having not lived with a single setup under the kit for more than a month before changing something. But the current setup has been there for months and I have no desire to change. Just to put on the next CD or record and BLAST IT!!!

Great fun!!!

No fun having expensive kit that isn't doing it for you - here's hoping you get back to you Happy Place soon.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Tim,

Don't discount the suggestion that Mana may be causing the problem...especially if it (Mana) is setup correctly. Placing the kit on the floor as others have suggested will help rule-out the supports.

From one who's been down your path....

Dave

quote:

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Originally posted by mark v:
Your system is pretty 'in your face' and I think perhaps you have changed your tastes. I am considering doing just this myself.

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Mark might well be right: your tastes may have changed. IMHO, you should get rid of the SBL's and buy more laid-back speakers.

Naim's "smashmouth" approach to loudspeaker design may be the only thing they do I fully disagree with... unless you hook them up to a pair of Audio Research tube monoblocks or the like. (Oh, oh... Feel I may get into trouble here)

Why don't you borrow a pair of Spendors or Harbeths just to see if you like it?