Serious downsizing

Hi Tim

I went through a similar dilemma about a year ago with CDS2 - 52 - active 250's into SBL's.

I kept the CDS2 (and now have a '3') and went for some simpler new Naim amps: 202 - NAPSC - H/C - 250 (passive) (still using the SBL's).

I prefer it without doubt. Strange but true. My old system probably produced more information, but it wasn't musically enjoyable.

It's much harder to get a very revealing system to make music. This for me was neatly proved at the recent Heathrow Hi-Fi show.

The new budget Naim system was giving me more musical enjoyment than the CDS3/SL2 system in the other room. In fairness; that may have been down to the acoustic effect of the room, but that just reinforces my earlier point.

The new amps have a smoother, more spacious sound that you may well prefer. And do not under estimate the efficacy of Fraim.

I'm firmly convinced that any ferrite stands screw up the sound, big time.

You're welcome to have a listen to my system, if you're in these parts.

Good luck.

johnnobbs@btinternet.com

Interesting topic.

I've got two views on this:
1. I upgraded rapidly after 8 years with the same system, ending up at CDS, 52/super/250. I got worried about VFM etc and downgraded equally rapidly. For example, I ended up with a Rotel 965BX while pondering my next move - it was a bag of nails in comparison with the CDS (predictable I suppose) and it effectively stopped me listening to music. When funds permit (ie after new house), I'm on my way back up again ASAP, but to CDX level this time, which I reckon offers the best balance between hi-fi and VFM.

2. I had SBLs and changed them for Shahinian Arcs. That was the single biggest upgrade I've ever made - suddenly the music appeared when I played sub-standard discs (the SBLs were great as long as the CD was well-recorded). I've kept these and they will slot into my new mid-range system - prob at the 72 (or 82)/hi/250 level.

Ergo - don't downgrade just yet. You might regret it. Try other speakers, something a little more musical/relaxing (I was using the dreaded oil-rig by the way).

Steve

The answer to your problems is analogue. Buy a good turntable like an LP12 or P9 and you will realise where you went wrong. Sorry, but a CD player (even a CDS2) doesn't truely cut it.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

Tim--

There are a lot of good suggestions here. I've been there--not quite up to the level of system you had--and did a radical downgrade. I think there are some valid reasons to downgrade--finances, etc., but improving music is not one of them. As someone pointed out above, the more revealing a system the harder it is to get it to make music. I agree with that completely, and think that is one of the biggest reasons the classic Nait/Kan system is so popular.

I also think JN has an excellent suggestion--try a 202/Hicap/250Mk2 system in place of your electronics. You might well prefer it. I think the new gear retains all the strengths of the olive line and adds a great deal of refinement and subtlety, which might be what you're missing. Taking a cue from Ken C. you might also try going passive with 135s. Also, how old are your SBLs? You might try, if you haven't, (gently) vacuuming the tweeters.

Finally, PR--are you serious? ProAc 3.5s v. SBLs? The SBLs absolutely devastate the 3.5s musically--the 3.5s do air/space/etc better, but so what--that's not music. The 2.5 is vastly better than the 3.5--much more complete sounding. My sense is that the 3.5 tries to do too much, while the 2.5 doesn't and is the better speaker for it.

Best,

Bob

quote:

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There are those of us with the opinion that Mana not only qualifies as being a "decent" rack, but is to all intents and purposes also the "best" rack, after hearing a variety of other supports. It's all subjective opinion, of course, but the point is it would be nice if the totally unconstructive stand-bashing was kept to a minimum.

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With respect, Mana would probably come out as the best stand if all hi-fi/musical criteria were considered. Bar one - the toon, sorry tune (lots of peole make puns out of my name including JW who once refered to mine as a "toy" system )

If musical satisfaction is not particularly forthcoming on a subjective/emotional level (and of course, for many other Mana users it obviously is or they wouldn't swear by it the way they sometimes do ) then the Mana may be the first thing to consider replacing as it just may not be for you.

A QS Ref rack costs £730 for four usable shelves and an additional £140 for each extra shelf.

Next I'd look at changing the amps (the CDS2 is a beautiful sounding CD player, so I'd change that last.) The Densen B200/B300XS combo costs £2500 new. You'll need to spend a bit on interconnects though to make the CDS2 really sing into it, but ---STOP PRESS--- I've discovered an i/c that is CHEAPER THAN THE ANTHEM, and it's just as good, if not better in some areas.

I've got a DIN/RCA i/c on loan from Omiga Audio and it's superb, but that's another story.

I'd swap the SBLs for something a little less fiddly and with better low end response too, but that's only my humble opinion.

Andrew,

Tim already has a P9 and I think he said he's going to keep it.

Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on SUNDAY 19 October 2003 at 04:55.]

quote:

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With respect, Mana would probably come out as the best stand if all hi-fi/musical criteria were considered.

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Sorry Steve...gotta disagree here. I've owned both at the same time and Fraim easily outperformed Mana in every aspect of sound...not even close.

best regards,

dave

Oh and Sugden do a system called the "Bijou," and it's very nice indeed.

Their amps are even more modestly powered than the Nait - 37 wpc for the standard power amp or 23 for their new "Class A " jobbie.

If I were to start from scratch, this is the very system I'd buy. I'd park it on QS Ref rather than use it's stacking interlocking rods though, and I'd use either Anthem or Omiga Audio interconnects.

As for speakers, Ruark seem to be synergistic with this setup - even small standmounts for only 350 quid.

BTW, this setup gets even better when you add an ISotek Qube and/or Townsend ISOLDA cables.

Very musical, very hi-fi (in the non-perjorative sense) as well.



Regards,

Steve.

Another possible reason is room acoustics. Think about making your room more hi-fi friendly or moving it to a better room.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

Tim,
Before you dump your system, why don't you come and listen to mine - I have very similar electronics and speakers and you can hear what it should sound like.

Your system should deliver exceptional performance, but I would observe that your stands/room might be working against it. I'm speaking from personal experience here!

regards

Dev

Dev -

Good idea! Thanks for the offer.

You have a PT.

Tim

And when you've heard Dev's system why not pop over and hear mine, an alternative and cheaper solution.

Alex