Dura-Ace ten speed

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I'm thinking of getting it put on the C40.

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infidel!

International Disaster

Chaps

Japanese parts should never be used on European frames. It's just wrong.

Regards

Ludwig (sarcastically doing my Mick Parry impression )

Tim,

Surely it's time to upgrade - the new C50 can be had with 10 speed Campy. A snip at around $6K.

cheers

Dan

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Originally posted by Stefano Rosati:
BTW Campagnolo is now offering a new 2004 Record, although most innovation is just cosmetic.
If the upgrade bug has hit you once again you might start thinking at the 2005 electronic Record...

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Hopefully you might be able to help me here Stefano. What advantages does electronic shifting offer? I can't see any benefit in it. In fact, it just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Is there some inherent problem with cable shifting that I'm not aware of?

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...forgive me, for I have sinned:
My time trial bike is equipped with a Shimano Ultegra. And even worse, I like how it works.

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oh, the shame of it all.

Dan -

Actually you're right - I may save up for a new frame to put the DA ten speed on - maybe a C50, but the carbon Cervelo looks good too and might, just possibly, be a bit cheaper...

It's only three months since I bought the C40. Oh well.

John/Ludwig -

I don't buy this stuff about not putting Shimmy on Italian frames. Most of the pro teams who rode/ride C40s put Dura Ace on them. FWIW I like both DA and Record - and think they stack up a bit like this:

Shimmy DA - Upside: Bit cheaper than Record (at least the 9-speed was), slightly easier to set up, slightly more robust, better shifting while on the drops.

Downside: Always seems a bit noisier than Campy stuff, you can only shift one cog at a time, no funky carbon fibre, very slightly heavier than Record, spongey brakes

Campy Record - Upside: Looks nicer, more purist, multiple shifts possible (actually I do miss that), more 'definite' shifts, better brakes.

Downside: Expensive, reputedly more fragile, carbon fibre parts no substitute for genuine technical improvement, shifting up while in the drops is a nightmare unless you have double-jointed thumbs.

It's just that for me, Shimano wins out by a whisker - plus all my other bikes and wheelsets are Shimmy, so moving to Campy would be a tad inconvenient...

Tim

Stefano -

I, uh, do realise that a new bike won't make me a faster rider. I train hard no matter what bike I have and am currently training on my 'heavy' (i.e. 8.5kg) Deda7003/Ultegra bike and racing (increasingly successfully) on the C40. If I do get a C50 or the Cervelo it won't be until early next year. Anyhow I'm going to sell the Principia

Buying a new bike is like upgrading your hi-fi. It won't improve your taste in music, but will make you want to explore music more.

Tim

Stefano -

I think you're just jealous...

If you're looking for an aluminium bike, I suggest you find someone who has a second-hand Principia for sale.

Tim

Oooh I dunno Ross - they are not especially light and had a terrible review from a Mr Chris Boardman in Procycling recently. he seemed to feel they their geometry makes them handle like a welder's bench.

Also they're very expensive and have a bit of a poseur reputation (nothing like a C40 obviously )...

If I was going to buy a De Rosa it would either be a Dual (the U2/carbon one) or a Merak (the V107 one which has a great pro pedigree).

Tim

Tim, I was joking about a Japanese groupo on an Italian frame. Why would I care what anyone puts on their bike?

Re: electronic shifting, a friend once had a Serotta Ti frame w/ Mavic Zap 6-volt setup and while very interesting it didn't work as well as a mechanical system.

Oh my God. I've got to have one. It does look a bit like the new Trek frame though. I think it's going to have to be a C50 in PR4...

Anyone wanna buy a CDS2/52/135/SBL system?

It's about time Colnago updated their site. I've never heard of some of those frames ('Active'? 'Mix'? 'Rapid'?). Nice to see that they're updating from CT1 to CT2 as well, but it looks like more of the frames are sloping, so perhaps Sgr. Ernesto is compromising his principles...

Tim

Ross -

Oh dear. This could turn nasty. Many people love Ti bikes and they do feel great in many ways. I did not test a CT1, but did test ride a Litespeed Ghisallo before deciding on the C40. It was extremely light and very comfortable to ride.

The C40 had all those things, but was also (much) faster accelerating, stiffer, more stable and comfortable at high speed, and less twitchy on fast descents. There is also something hard to define about what a C40 does when you really stand up and go all out. It just seems to let you go harder than any other frame I've ridden.

How far this experience translates to other carbon or Ti frames I'm not sure. I've ridden a Trek 5900 but thought it was a bit dull. I suspect many of the C40 attributes are due not only to the carbon fibre, but to the fact that it's built into a frame with a very steep seat tube angle, a shallower fork rake and ten years of feedback from the best pro riders in the world.

Tim

tim...hi there

it's me again, rafizi.

well, to me, italian frame goes with italian gruppo.

regards,

Stefano -

Thanks for that. It sounds really good. I have to admit that I wasn't sure about the look of it, but it seems more impressive when you actually use it.

The bit that I did really like the look of was the new Dura Ace wheelset - it looks like Campy's excellent Neutron/Nucleon wheels. Do you know how much it weighs?

Tim

While we are all lashing loads of cash on our bikes this Autumn can I put in a plug for a bit of charity.

I got my Sustrans membership renewal this week and the newsletter makes impressive reading They are the 'sustainable transport' charity whose main thrust is impoving cycle tracks and the National Cycle Newtwork. The map is really coming together-big improvements since I joined a few years ago. I've no idea if other countries have similar organisations but the link below gives more info (plus maps etc). Worth £3 month I reckon.

Bruce

Sustrans homepage

long live CAMPY!! long live CAMPY!!

Ross -

have you tried an SLR saddle? They look extremely uncomfortable, but oddly they just suit the shape of my arse and bigger, softer saddles just feel uncomfortable in comparison.

Plus they're v light (c150gms)...

Nice to hear the new DA brakes are better. That was one of the real downsides of the old gruppo - they always felt a bit spongy, especially compared to Campy brakes.

Tim

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Originally posted by Ross Blackman:
Tim,

The SLR was one I hadn't tried, but would have next if the Aliante hadn't worked out. I've heard that the sLR is more comfortable than it looks. But based on today's ride, I think the Aliante is it.

Ross

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The SLR is comfortable but you have to be careful about the type of seatpost you put it on. The saddle is designed to flex in order to make up for its lack of padding. If you have a seatpost of the Colnago Carbon (ITM) style that has adjustment bolts pointing up towards the seat then you may have some issues unless you're jockey-sized.

No issues here with my 'Nago seapost John.

But then again I am a jockey-sized nine stone.

Tim

Ross -

Sorry to hear about that. Bit worrying for the rest of us potential DA 10 buyers. Which crank fell off? Was it the left hand one (bolted to the axle) or the right hand one ("press fitted to the axle with a force of 5000 kilos").

Can you tell if these probs are due to set-up or inherent design issues?

Though I haven't really had any mechanical problems with the three DA9 groups I've run for the past coupde of years, it has always seemed a bit noisier than the Campy Chorus group I ran before.

Tim

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Originally posted by Tim Jones:
No issues here with my 'Nago seapost John.

But then again I am a jockey-sized nine stone.

Tim

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well that's a couple of stone less than me, no doubt just enough to stop it bottoming-out on the pin.

Just remember, it's 90% legs and 10% bike

Too true Jim, too true. There's nothing to beat the rush of knowing that you are actually getting fitter and better.

Venga Roberto!, venga!

Tim