Speaker stand spikes into floor or on to Chips ?

I prefer the sound of my n-Sats with the stands on chips rather than into the floor. Although i still find it hard to believe i spent £260 on round circles of metal !

James

Fraim chips are for, well, Fraims.

Dont spend $500 on glorified floor protectors.

I FULLY understand getting Fraim chips if you buy a Fraim. But for jamming underneath a speaker? Come on. There are plenty of "floor protectors" out there that are virtually identical and will do the job just fine.

Silly really.

It is as funny as the "naim approved carpet" jokes in last year's System Pics thread.

Well to be accurate I didn't mean actual FRAIM chips, but generic spike discs or whatever you want to call them ...

Is there a sonic difference or is it just a floor protector ?

The chips work very well under the Fraim and give a more noticeable sonic improvement. Under the speakers the benefit is marginal but present. Together they work well.

Why not borrow a set from your Naim dealer and judge for yourself - that's what I did for my nbl's which now sit permanently on chips.

Peter

quote:

Fraim chips are for, well, Fraims.

From the website - Fraimchip floor protectors stop the spikes on supports and speaker stands embedding themselves into wooden floors and degrading the sound

haha james n, you gotta be kidding me? Did you really find that text on the website?
It is kinda disturbing that a well known and respected comapany as Naim can stand for such ridiculous statement..

Use a coin if you are worried about the floor, that is my friendly advice.

quote:

Use a coin if you are worried about the floor, that is my friendly advice.

Speaking from experience with Fraim chips ?

quote:

haha james n, you gotta be kidding me?

They are Naim and they are expensive, so they have to be good. Surely that's obvious?

The purpose of the chips is to stop the spikes digging in to the floor, which will degrade the sound. Some friends of mine with a laminate floor use floor protectors, possibly made by Rega, which are much cheaper and do the same thing.

Nigel

quote:

They are Naim and they are expensive, so they have to be good. Surely that's obvious?

Was that why you originally had a Fraim ?

Nothing to do with the cost of Fraim chips but I understand they are a bit different from other brands of chips by minimizing the contact area against the floor. I believe they have a raised lip on the bottom of the chip that limits contact with the floor. If so, expect different results than Brand X chips with different energy transmission characteristics.

I bought 8 chips for my Arivas...on ceramic tiles.

Boyoboyo, what a huge difference. No regrets here.

quote:

Was that why you originally had a Fraim ?

The Fraim was the best stand that I tried, and in the context of my then system it was good value for what it did. If I had a laminate floor (which I don't) I would try pennies and cheaper protectors before splashing the cash on Naim chips.

Nigel

Exactly hungryone.

You can still spend a lot, for what you get, on other brands if that is a concern. The ones I look at getting were about $60 per set of four, which I seemed was slightly overpriced for a little piece of turned steel.

If budget was not a factor though, as it isn't for many in this Forum, I would surely buy the Fraim chips as well.

-p

quote:

Use a coin if you are worried about the floor, that is my friendly advice.

If you want a new pair of speakers I recommend that you follow the above advice!

When I first got my nbl's I placed them on 2p coins to avoid the weight of the speakers sinking into the timber floor. I was shocked at how awful they sounded.

Without the chips there is no way on earth that the nbl's could have stayed - they were shrieking with horrible high frequency sounds tingling the spine - in a very bad way!!

I have no clue about alternative chip products but I can assure you that for my speakers in my room the Naim ones made a huge difference.

As I said above, it costs nothing to borrow a set from your dealer.

Peter

I do have a (cheap) laminate floor. I tried my n-stsnds on pennies but prefer the sound with them just spiked onto the bare floor. But maybe with 160 quid spent on fraim chips, the sound could be even better....

Best, Chris

The chips are more expensive than my 16 year old ES-11s !

quote:

The chips are more expensive than my 16 year old ES-11s !

I'm just pleased I have a concrete floor! In hifi land the £160 needs to be seen as relative to the cost of the other bits of the system. If £160 makes something listenable that would otherwise cost a lot more to fix, the price is reasonable. But I still think Naim are charging far to much for their accessories, whether it be chips or overpriced interconnects and mains leads. Because it's Naim the sheep will pay. I bought a pair of Naim sub leads as I assume that if they are made for the nSub they must be best. Baa.

Nigel

quote:

I understand they are a bit different from other brands of chips by minimizing the contact area against the floor.

Its more decoupled from the floor as the energy from the floor does not go straight up into the spike (and vise versa).
Instead the energy has a better chance to dissipate in the Chip.

Well i can see alot of ppl manage to convince themselfs alot of things, even that a piece of steel under a spike can change the sound from "horrid" to "wonderful"..

Please show me any proof (other than placebo) that for exampel the Naim chips (or any other dedicated chip from any other company) will improve the sound.

I can almost bet my entire Naim-rigg that not one engineer will verify that it is even possible, the law of physics goes for us all..

ps. do not get me wrong, i love Naim and the sound of my equipment but all of this dogmatic thinking just wears me down..

From the perspective of a non-engineer...

1.A rocking cabinet produces movement larger than the drivers' cones, especially in the case of high frequencies, causing a loss of signal.

2.Changing the coupling interface between speakers and a wooden floor alters the resonance of the floor and possibly the sound.

...best I can do since I'm not an engineer but seems to be the most plausible explanation when experiencing these problems in the real world.

hth,

dave

I agree Alive ...

My cheap laminate flooring is on a concrete floor so suspect that the need to decouple compared to a sprung floor is much less.

Even upstairs my second system 62/140 has its Monitor Audio speakers up on the wide brick hearth of the fire-place.

I tried fraim chips under my speakers - very mixed!
I ended up removing them and preferring them direct onto a hard oak floor. I found that the chips under my speaker onto a hard surface accentuated the HF, added glare and removed fine detail - although it did sound more dynamic.

Under fraim - well it was entirely positive and vastly better than coins; made coins sound like they were ringing and adding glare.
This was on a hard wooden surface - very different results onto a carpet. Fraim chips on a carpet sound absolutely awful, unless you like a fat tuneless bass and severe loss of detail.

So:
Fraim chips under fraim on hard floor = good.
Fraim chips under fraim on carpet = bad.
Fraim chips under speakers - well see if you like it, I didn't!

DB.

The combination of the speakers and Fraim on the chips together should work well. They certainly did for me. But as you have said it is personal preference and as you pointed out, on the speakers only the results were mixed.

Those doubting the efficacy of the chips may want to examine the cups on their Fraim. Notice anything?

Although it is apparently no longer illegal to deface coins in some places, it seems rather "rich" to put thousands of dollars of precession equipment on a few pennies to save.... a few pennies. Would you put an Aston Vantage on a cheap set of all seasons? Sure, get back to me on that.

I am unable to use chips presently due to carpeting, but if I had to have one set they would be for the Fraim; and if you don't mind the additional expense under a 20 thousand dollar pair of speakers (NBL's for example), I figure the other 8 chips at a stunningly "expensive" 1% of the precision components they are supporting are probably within the means of the listener.

I thought the chips were a good addition, and those of you using various pieces of coinage, enjoy. Oh and keep some Kleenex close to wipe the blood from your ears.

tw

tristam,

I appreciate your enthusiasm but question your motives and facts.

Firstly, the original poster has speakers that are likely worth less the Fraim chips. Hence the suggestion to buy something else.

Secondly, like i said, those without budgets, myself included, should buy Fraim chips without question.

Also, NBLs retailed for just over $10K USD.

Lastly, yes, Fraim chips are a no brainer for those who wouldn't miss the money in any way. Otherwise it is a silly suggestion to give to someone who has $400 speakers. There are other options, coins aside.