Any advice for a bright room?

You might be able to mask some of the problems by changing the speakers but just like taking asprin for a cold, it won't cure the fundamental problem.

You could experiment with sound absorbers implemented in an arty sort of way. Or just live with it.

Regards
Steve

I used credos for a long time and had no trouble, but alas not in a big room.

I too go for the basic look, plus I have a flouting wood effect floor, nightmare.

I notice with this that two things can occur.

1. The bass can be overwhelming, especially whats being dumped into the floor.

2. The treble can be brittle and harsh. Marco might call it 'bright and in your face'

In order to tame both of these I have found that carefull adjustment of the speakers most benificial, with particular reference to how they interface with the floor.

In essence I have found the best way to sort the treble issue out is to interface the spikes direct with the floor, no two pee's no granite no nothing.

After that I would look long and hard look at the 92r, with concerns for the 90 coming later down the line.

I'd agree with Gary in terms of amplification.

Same type of problem for me with the wooden floor and lack of furniture. Admittedly vastly different speakers though.

However, swapping to a 140 from the 90 did wonders for the balance of the sound, taming the top end whilst controlling and "tuning" the bass. I presume that the further up the ladder you go NAP wise, the better this effect gets.

I'll bet that a different stand would make a difference as well (snigger).

Ed.

quote:

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Any advice for a bright room?

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Shades!

Tony.

I know you don't want to but the Credos have a much better balance in a carpeted room than on wooden floors. Also 140 is recommended as the 'minimum' for the Credos.

You could try fixing the credos securely to the floor by drilling into the boards and then fixing screws to the bottom of the speaker and the floor boards (I know some forum members do this). This should help with the bass. As for the treble, soft furnishings, rugs, everything you don't want to do.

Sorry, not much help really!

I ran credeos with a 92/90 for over three years quite happily, I don't believe where this speaker is concerned that there should be a min spec, at least 90 should be min!

Mind you I must confess they sounded better in a carpeted room than they did on the wood floor.

I even tried a pair of Credo's on my trusty old Nait-2 some months ago, in a store. Sounded very good to me, without any lack of power(reserve) or dynamics. (In small heavy carpeted room though)

To Belsizepark...well, suspended wooden floors, minimalism and Naim just don't match!
So, I'm afraid there's only one (make that 2) solution(s).
-Or you use some curtains and a carpet
-or swap your Naim/Credo's for something smoooth.
(like valves,or MF stuff)

I know, the truth hurts...

I have a floating laminate floor and not too much (soft) furniture. (I do have curtains though)
My room sounds 'horrible' too since I started with this laminate wooden floor.

Greetings,
Alco

You could also introduce some rather large plants in your livingroom. Plants seem to have a damping effect on my interiour, especially the ones with lots of small leaves.

The problem of Belsize's appartment reminds me of an exchange between the dealer who I bought my nait from and a potental client.

client: we have a room with hardwood floors and painted walls and minimal furniture, what do recommed as a system.

dealer: comeback when you've bought carpets and more absorbant furniture.

Anyway, Belsize have you tried modeling your room with CARA software from www.cara.de ? You might find a placement solution that minimises the problem.

Peter

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Originally posted by James:
Peter,

I doubt it would make a huge difference if the primary cause of brightness is a multitude of reflections from hard, bare surfaces. Room placement would only help the bass-end of the audio spectrum. Then again, if he placed his speakers in such a way (corners spring to mind) that bass quantity is maximised, the boominess might distract the brightness.

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Logically, I think you're right.

quote:

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Seriously Belsizepark, you _MUST_ have something to absorb or diffuse sound bouncing around your room if you want a halfway decent result. A rug on the floor would help tremendously and yet not detract too much from the timber floor look. Strategically hung oil paintings can make a huge difference. How about a bookcase with a random selection of books? I don't have any curtains in my room, but I have found that the direction in which I orientate my vertical blinds make a significant difference. I can only imagine how unpleasant a bare room must sound. Ergo, my earlier recommendation of headphones.

James

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I hate hearing people speak in a bare room, it sounds as if the words are hitting my ears like a hammer, so I would dread leistening to music in that same context. Incidentaly, this bare look is very much the tred for new restaurants, and I try and avoid this style of aetablishment when looking for eats.

Peter

Belsize: I am one of those relative minimalist type people

Me too, but I agree with most of the other opinions expressed here: If you want a halfway decent sound, you need to compromise. Changing the speakers will absolutely not address the problem.

Different objects damp different frequencies. For bass reverb, which is the hardest to detect to the untrained ear, you need big things: sofas against the wall, furniture, special absorbers that you place in the corner. Bookcases filled with books (hundreds) or again special absorbers are good for the mids, and curtains are good for high frequencies. If you don't like curtains in front of your windows, try draping long strips of heavy cotton from your ceiling - gives the room a Mediterranean flair and really works well; I had 4 strips of 2.50m by 0.80 m and had to take one down because it overdamped the room (curtains in front of windows often don't work that well because there isn't enough space between the fabric and the wall).

Thomas

Good to see you on here again!

Heard some Spendors last weekend, very smooth and warm sound, although with lots of detail... at least this is how they were in the dealer's listening room. Apparently work well with Naim... I have the same problem re room acoustics, think I'll be demoing them at home.

Come over for a listen!

I found that plants made quite a difference, as did curtains. I was resisting the idea of both, but gave in (me ears 'urt!) and well worth it.

at the end of the year i am going to move into a house that is furnished in a similar way. thank god in the living room we chose hard wood floor instead of laminate. the wood will be glued to the floor. anybody any experience with that kind of floor? i will NOT drill holes into the floor or let spikes ruin it. it's awfully expensive. also we will have high ceilings (3,20 metres) and a living room that is open to the corridor and to the upper floor. looks great. any experiences anyone with that kind of architecture? we won't have wallpaper and probably no rugs (depends on the children) as we have floor heating.

Thorsten,

Yes, I have experience with an architecture as you describe it. Wooden floor (as you stated glued to the concrete - about 2.5 cm's thick), large room (appr. 100 m2 - 6.5 by 15 m), with all kinds of corners, open to the first floor, lots of huge windows, etc.

I can tell you one thing: it's difficult. There's a lot of reverb in the room, and I have been making changes that also could pass the WAF. Large oil paintings on the wall, thin curtains, a sisal rug, lamps that have covers made of sort of folded rice-paper, etc.

Placement of the speakers does make a hell of a difference as even slight changes are noticeable. I am currently demoing different types of speakers to find out what goes well with the room. So far, I had the Forest totem at home for a week - and although they produce quite a bit of low frequencies, it was a tad too much for my taste. The highs were ok. Currently trying the Allae; less boomy, a bit more flat image, highs are ok. The jury is not out on this one. It'll take time to find the right combination I suppose.

Arthur

Try this.

Unhook the hicap from the cd3.5 and place it in between the 92 & 90. Now I know this breaks the source-first rule, but I think it worth a try for two reasons:

1. The CD3.5 won't resolve as well, softening its output in the process.

2. The 90 will be able to control the Credos more readily since it doesn't have to drive the preamp.

Hey, it costs nothing and might suit you!

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

I would like to thank everyone who has taken time out to respond so far.

The responses are somehow as I feared. It is very unfortunate. Changes to HiFi are possible but to those who suggested (and I know with good intention) that I do things like put plants in the room or drape bits off cloth from the ceiling, hang up curtains, or start displaying books on shelves (hideous!).. It just ain't gonna happen.

If it is a choice of room decor or hifi.. the hifi unfortunately loses out. I have heard of people on this forum mention WAF. In my case its not that.. it's whats I can tolerate. Adding or changing a black box maybe one thing.. adding a plant pot however sends shivers down my spine.

This problem also explains one thing clearly and is possibly a lesson to others.

When I originally purchased my HiFi, I had a few demos at the dealer in a special listening room. That room was probably optimised with cushions, curtains etc etc. The HiFi sounded great. When it was installed in my flat new, I was very dissapointed with the sound. I was then told about the warm up period etc etc and that it would get better. It did, but not that much.

Recently, I was at a hifi store and heard a system with a friend in a listening room which i think most people (especially people on this forum)would agree is not in the same league as mine. However it upset me slightly as I actually thought it sounded better than mine. (When I say sound, I mean total listening experience).

It is often mentioned that the room/environment has the greatest impact on sound - How true I have found that out to be...





Regards

Belsizepark

p.s Frank, I will try that, but as I do not know how to move leads around etc, I will try and get Dev to do it for me.. he has volunteered to come and try and help me out and he claims to be the best Naim HiFi installer outside Salisbury!

arthur,

that must be a hell of a living-room. our whole three-bedroom house sums up to 106 qm2. so i won't have that much choice regarding the placement of my sbls since the living room is a modest 33 qm2. where do you live? former steel-factory??? please keep me up to date with your results. thanks.

How about a big fluffy pet - introduce to the room when listening. Dulux dog should do the trick.

Before spending any money, it might be worth adopting a listening position that is fairly near the speakers, with the speakers angled inwards (aimed towards the listener) in order to maximise the effect of the direct sound and minimise the effect of the reflected sound.

I have no idea if Credos would stand this sort of set-up - I'm not familiar with them - but there's one way to find out...

JD

Hi Thorsten,

No, we had the chance to build our own house, and an architect was hired to design something special: unique- spacious.

When I bought the Naim set, I kept the speakers because I was pretty happy with them, but when I purchased those, we lived in a much smaller house (living appr. 40 m2) and they were doing just fine. Now they have to cope with more space, and I found that the Allae's because of their -in my mind- pretty direct character do a better job. Maybe it can even be better -and I'm not changing the boxes as I'm pleased with my 5-series - so I continue trying.

I'm totally with Belsizepark, and when I mention WAF I mean that I don't want to screw up the carefully designed house and interior for my HiFi. In the end, we both have to live there. The changes that were made, we made because we wanted them, and to be honest - it was a true addition to the interior and as bonus helped getting the huge reverb out of the room; also for normal conversation this was needed. Initially when there were no curtains, everything sounded like a church! Conversations when having a couple of friends over was very tireing, so we had to do something about that.

If it's any comfort, you can decorate your house in a fashion that does not do violence to your carefully designed interior. But, let me share with you that that's even more expensive than Naim kit I know, I've been there.

Arthur

When we bought our house, she got the garden and all the rooms in the house...except the lounge.

That is my domain! (She gets to decorate but I get final say on HiFi...)

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.