Indian Classical Music

I'll start by pointing you in the direction of 'Sampradaya' by Pandit Shiv Kumar Sharma on Real World records. Itis utterly mesmerising. It builds to a climax of astonishing (and quite intoxicating) intensity.

Bruce

I'm not an expert, but I'll share what I know. There are two distinct schools of Indian classical music: Carnatic and Hindustani. Each has it's own system of rules regarding rhythmic and melodic improvisation.

Hindustani music is the northern tradition, and it's where you'll find your Veena, Sitar, Sarod, and Tabla, so famous musicians like Ravi Shankar, Ali Akbar Khan, Chatur Lal, etc. are all Hindustani musicians. There's generally less flute in Hindustani music, more plucked-stringy things. There's also a huge amount of vocal Hindustani music, although that isn't what makes it to the west, mostly.

Carnatic music is the southern style. Main instruments include Ghatam, Mringdam, and Tambura, as well as violin. There's a lot of vocal Carnatic music as well. Generally find lots of drums and wind instruments here though, to my ears.

Sounds like Hindustani music may be what you may want to explore. There's a happening Hindustani tradition in Pakistani music too. I wish I could offer an in-depth list of suggested artists/albums, but most of what I own is the obvious popular stuff. What I've written above is just what I remember from my ethnomusicology classes, and what little I've learned listening on my own.

Eerily enough I was, and still am, listeneing to Call Of The Valley as I came across this thread. I'm not an expert on Indian classical but will try and help as best I can - these recommendations are just things I've discovered/been pointed at and like and don't necessarily represent the best of the genre.

COTV is essentially jugalbandi - duetting - albeit of a restrained, polite, and abbreviated kind. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that listening to longer stuff takes comparably longer to get into. But then that's true of a lot of Indian classical. One slight word of warning that isn't meant to sound patronising or disrespectful - COTV features almost no alap section to these short ragas. The alap is a preliminary, developmental section to a raga, where the soloist(s) explore the fundamental notes of the raga in a slow and experimental way which to the untutored ear can just sound like aimless tuning up. Some interpretations can take 20 or 30 minutes in this preparation before launching into the tune proper, at which point the percussionist usually joins in. None of the following have huge alaps but even so...

Whatever, I'll start there. At it's best jugalbandi is my favourite form. Two acknowledged top jugalbandi albums would be:

Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan In Concert 1972



Two sitars. This was originally an Apple release and comes as a double CD, although the second one is only 26 minutes long. But what a 26 minutes! Raga Singhi Bhairavi is an absolute scorcher - Ravi and Ali Akbar taking turns to blaze away, then twining around each other, seemingly climaxing and bringing rounds of applause from the crowd before turning the wick up even further. Amazing stuff.

The first disk is much longer (75 minutes) and features two more restrained (but still beautiful) Ragas.

You may have to scrabble around the net for this, but it is totally worthwhile.

Ali Akbar Khan and Nikhil Banerjee - AMMP Signature Series Vol. 4



Again two sitars, this time Ali Akbar and his pupil Nikhil. A single CD with two long ragas, both of which are superb. Not as rock 'n' roll as the previous disk, but there are lots of subtleties and the fact that these two played endless hours together in private shows. Superb.

Kala Ramnath & Purbayan Chatterjee - Samwad



Sitar and Violin. Much more recent and by two younger stars. This features one long raga and one shorter one. The two instruments really work well together and the interplay is fantastic both in the alaps and the bits where they let fly. I first came across the shorter work (Raga Bageshri) on Late Junction and it blew my socks off. Probably my favourite Indian classical record bar none. It was recorded by Sense World Music records, which has many good new artists (including Shiv Kumar's son Rahul).

From there to solo:

Nikhil Bannerjee - Afternoon Ragas Rotterdam 1970



Sitar. I bought this after getting hte jugalbandi disk above. Two longish ragas, developed beautifully he has a lyrical style that really hits home - no sense of the flashy, just totally involving.

Kartik Seshadri - Raga:Rasa



Sitar. This was a warm recommendation from Fred Simon, and he was dead right. Three longish ragas split over two disks. Maybe not quite as beguiling as the Banerjee, but not far behind.

Apart from those two you can't really go far wrong with any of the million or so disks by Ravi Shankar or other masters such as Imrat Khan.

Gopal Shankar Misra - Out Of Stillness



Veena (an Indian loose equivalent to a pedal steel guitar, like a sitar played horizontally with a glass ball to do the fretting). I bought this fairly recently but it's very very good. The ragas are shorter but all very individual even though they are also more even-paced - there's no great fireworks here, but that's not to put it down in any way. He recorded this for Real World and sadly died before it came out.

Shivkumar Sharma - Santoor



Santoor. As with many of these disks, this is a live recording (the only one of the above not live is the Misra) with one humongous raga of 76 minutes split into 4 sections featuring a very long (29 minutes) alap section. This one comes with a qualified recommendation. As I mention, it's live and was recorded (by Zakir Hussain, who plays tabla on it) at a low level in front of an audience that was plainly severly hit by plague or something. That opening alap has quite a lot of audience noise on it, particularly one rather itrritating child (who seems to be taken out at some point as the intrusions stop). However, the music is beautiful enough to get past those aggravations, and once he hits the medium and fast sections then you can only imagine him playing through a haze of smoke coming from his mallets. Time after time he brings the raga to a seemingly unsurmountable peak before pausing and going further. It's amazing stuff and the audience frequently go wild (as they did in the SHankar/Khan performance above).

Siv Sharma has also tried cross-over with western musicians and his son but The Elements: Water is only a partial success, with the more traditional ragas working much better than the shorter pieces which come over all crystal channeling and cheesey.

That's probably enough for now. If you need further help just ask and I'll do my best. Oh, and COTV finished quite a while ago...

Oh me of little faith! I thought that posting this question was a long shot, but I evidently underestimated the knowledge, and helpfulness of forum members. Special thanks Gary for his exceptionally detailed reply - there's a lot to go at there. I'm skint this month as I unexpectedly had to replace my laptop at the weekend, but I will return to the fray with bank bakance refreshed next month.

Bruce - I was hoping for a Pandit Shiv Kumar Sharma reommendation, so thanks for that.

Jayd - Thanks for the clear explanation of the two main traditions; looks like Hindustani is the way to go for now.

Gary - Interesting point about alap. I remember seeing Toumani Diabate live, shortly after buying his first solo album. What struck me was how much longer the pieces were live, compared with the album - precisely because of the lengthy, initially aimless seeming introductions. Eventually the tunes I was familiar with from the album emerged organically from these - I found the whole experience absolutely fascinating. A great concert!

Just found this site, with very useful CD reviews - thought it might be useful to others:

Musical Nirvana

quote:

Originally posted by droodzilla:
Just found this site, with very useful CD reviews - thought it might be useful to others:

Musical Nirvana

Glad to be of help - that site looks useful.

When I first got into Indian classical I found all the messing about at the beginning a bit off-putting but you're exactly right the tunes and the improvisations emerge fron the seeming chaos.

One of the first CDs I bought, by Imrat Khan, featured a raga played on a Surbahar which is effectively a bass sitar and so can't do the fast stuff and of its 48 minutes, 40 or so is alap. Took me an age get get any of my head properly around it...but eventually.

Anyway, let us know how you get on - it's always good to get feedback - and I'll have a bash at getting you into Ghazal...

If you liked The Call of the Valley, I can recommend two much more recent CDs called The Valley Returns, vol. 1 and 2 (on Navras) where Shivkumar Sharma(santoor) and Hariprasad Chaurasia(flute) reunite to play extended ragas in live recordings, beautifully recorded.

Yes, I saw that thanks = glad to hear it's not a tired retread of the original!

I've been listening to a lot of Ali Akbar Khan as of late. I have three of discs in the AMMP Signature Series and can certainly recommend them. Especially No.4 pictured further up this thread.

While not exactly traditional you might want to give Ry Cooders, A Meeting by the River a try. It's great.

Some other discs from Ravi's daughter Anoushka and Imrat Khan see some time in my player as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Edot:
While not exactly traditional you might want to give Ry Cooders, A Meeting by the River a try. It's great.

It is. But "Bourbon and Rosewater" with Vishwa Mohan Bhatt and Jerry Douglas is even better. In fact, most stuff on the Water Lily Acoustics label is excellent. Tim de Paravicini built some of the gear they used in their studio, so you know they pay attention to sound quality.

I've shied away from Anoushka's Rise for reasons I'm not really sure about to be honest. On the other hand, her collaboration with Karsh Kale sounds as though it's going to be excellent.

Check out the track Slither on Kale's Myspace.

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:
But "Bourbon and Rosewater" with Vishwa Mohan Bhatt and Jerry Douglas is even better.

That does sound interesting - I do like Douglas' dobro stuff (courtesy Dave J). Ta.

quote:

Originally posted by droodzilla:
Having disgraced myself on another thread by (sort of) defending Britney Spears, I feel I must atempt to salvage my credibility by asking a question about "serious" music, to whit...

Can anyone help?
Credibility restored?

d.z. - yes, but only just, as this is such a great thread (thanks esp. to mr. shaw for his effort). however, hopefully that'll be the LAST britney thread for some time .... a guy can only take so much!!

i don't think a site providing sri lankan music samples is off topic:

http://www.infolanka.com/miyuru_gee/

fidedlio - thank you for your understanding

Just wanted to reiterate Gary's reiteration of my initial recommendation ...

Raga Rasa: That Which Colors the Mind - Kartik Seshadri




I've been listening to Indian classical music for 40 years, and this is one of the absolute best performances I've ever heard. Less a show of virtuosity (although plenty enough) than deeply emotive ... lyrical, subtle, even funky at times! To my ears, Seshadri produces a fatter, warmer tone on sitar than most, even Ravi. In a way, it sometimes sounds a little closer to the vina (or veena).

Speaking of the vina, I'm dying to check out that side by Vishwa Mohan Bhatt and Jerry Douglas ... I love the vina, I loved Bhatt's album with Ry Cooder, and I love Jerry Douglas, so this should be a no-brainer. Or a total-brainer, as the case may be.

By the way, Gary, the vina is indeed played with a slide but is closer in sound to a dobro (Jerry Douglas's instrument) than a pedal steel, which, although it also uses a slide, is an electric instrument. In fact, I'd imagine that a duet of vina and dobro would make one wonder at times which was which.

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:
By the way, Gary, the vina is indeed played with a slide but is closer in sound to a dobro (Jerry Douglas's instrument) than a pedal steel, which, although it also uses a slide, is an electric instrument.

Sorry Fred - I wasn't trying to imply a veena sounded like a pedal steel - just trying too illustrate the playing style compared to the usual sitar-like family instruments.

I've not heard Bhatt's work, but I'm struggling to get a veena sounding so similar to a dobro. Here's 5 minutes from a Drutgat from that Misra CD - it's the lead instrument, with a tanpura supplying the drone backing.

Bhatt's veena is officially a "Mohan veena". It's a bit of a frankenstein instrument of his own design and construction, but underneath it all, there's an el-cheapo archtop guitar. There was a cool write-up about it in Acoustic Guitar magazine about a decade ago.

More details here.

Edit: Also, IIRC, his slide is a slender pointed metal stylus-type thing, which he holds at an angle with the side of the tapered end against a single string. Different from your dobro stuff played with a Stevens steel or similar laid flat across multiple (or all) strings.