I changed my mind on CDX/XPS...

Posted by: Mike Hanson on 07 June 2001

I had the XPS on order, and it had arrived in the shop. However, after long deliberation, I've decided that CDX/XPS is not for me.

Instead, I'm going to go for CDS2, and while I'm at it I'll upgrade my 82 to a 52. Hell, you only live once. So now the 52 is on order, and I'm picking up the CDS2 next week.

And I still haven't setup my Mana. Can you believe it?!? I'll get done over the next few days. The listening room is almost cleared out, though, and it looks like I might need longer speaker cables. Now I'm working out when I'll put the dedicated spur in place.

Does the fun never end? (asks Mike, who's had a few too many glasses of celebratory wine)

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Posted on: 10 June 2001 by Rico

Mike

your response to my "you're having a laugh" post was lengthy, and explained much of your logic in the decision you made. However, I think you missed my point: The better your system gets, the more resolution it provides. The flipside is that they're even easier to hamstring, and take more patience to get the best from. Hence - yeah, buy the CDSII & 52 (hell, I would!), as you won't regret it, they make amazing music. Don't expect to get the best by just installing and forgetting them.

quote:
You're the first person I've heard who's suggested that downgrading their Mana is a desirable thing, except, of course, for those who eschew Mana entirely.

Some people listen to the trees for so long, they miss the wind when it blows.

quote:

Peter said:
my cdsii took around 6 weeks for the music to arrive, and the 52 about 3-4 months before it really "socked it to me".
Mike replied:
I'm surprised that you could tell the 52 was still improving, when I'm sure you were tweaking other things during that period. Also, is your hearing memory really that consistent and objective? I find I that I can convince myself that my office system is stellar, until I go downstairs to my main gear. Therefore, I don't take much stock in claims that there are improvements over long periods. Hell, even power fluctuations could explain those effects. (Please excuse me, but I'm a little skeptical in this area. I prefer a "proper" A-B comparison: take long enough on each item to get "settled" before switching to the other.)

Peter's setup provides resolution a-plenty with which to accurately judge the changes occuring during the time you mention, including other changes. I know you might find it hard to accept, but when you experience the running in/warming up of a system of this magnitude (indeed, over time), you will soon lose your "Doubting Thomas" credentials. Re-read this in three months time, and see if it makes sense then.

But going straight on to Phase IV? Why not start at the bottom as a baseline, until you get the spur installed?

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

Posted on: 10 June 2001 by dave simpson

quote:
Have you just purchased a Ronco rotisserie?

Nahh, just a lurid affair with Network Security. When's you site going back up ? I miss the sweaty stuff.

regards,

dave

Posted on: 10 June 2001 by Arthur Bye

Mike Hanson wrote:

quote:
Even JW at Mana says get the best system you can afford, and put it on Mana

Mike this seems contradictory, as JW's preference is for the CDS1 over the CDS2

Arthur Bye

Posted on: 10 June 2001 by Mike Hanson

JW's CDS1 is highly modified, so it doesn't count. Beyond that, I'm not sure if I've heard him recommending the CDS1 over the CDS2.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Posted on: 11 June 2001 by Mike Hanson

Back before the move I was concerned about potential cash crunches and such. Now that we're settled, I'm more willing to spend the money. You'll have to come over to my place sometime and give it a listen.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Posted on: 12 June 2001 by Mike Hanson

My own is showing up in the week or two. The current system is sounding great on Mana, albeit only through headphones. The speaker positioning is going to be a big job, and I won't have time to perfect it for a week or so.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Posted on: 12 June 2001 by Top Cat

...concerning lesser equipment versus more expensive (=>better?) equipment is interesting.

I've heard a £300 CD player better a CD3.5 easily, in the context of two completely different systems, but what one must bear in mind is that Mana brings out the best in equipment.

Therefore, a £300 CD player may be compromised (for reasons of economy and price-point decisions) in certain areas, which might just happen to be those areas where Mana is most influential (casework is my theory...). The more expensive unit is likely to be better designed all round, but ultimately if one irons out the flaws caused by compromise in the design chain of the lesser component, one is left with a smaller difference in perceptible quality and musicality between the two.

This gap is likely to vary from system to system, but in my experience it seems to be more readily reducible the cheaper the components become. Therefore, the case of Mr Pig's Cambridge Audio cd player outperforming the CD3.5, wherein the Mana effect was greater than the difference between the two off of Mana. Thus, the cheaper unit wins.

It's not all cut and dry like that, however; different attributes in components are affected to differing degrees, and so the CD3.5 might still remain ahead on some points, but overall, in terms of listenability and musicality, the Mana'd cheaper item may be better.

Scaling this observation up to CDX/XPS vs. CDSII, I can see no reason to doubt that a CDX/XPS at Phase 4 (say) would be ahead of the CDSII in most areas. However, cost-no-object installation of a CDSII at Phase 4 would be quite a bit ahead of a CDX/XPS I would imagine. I've never tried this with those items before, and am willing to accept that it may not apply.

However, a good example is my stop-gap Linn Basik/LVX-II/K9 turntable (replacing the LP12 whilst I sort out insurance and so on). At Phase 6 (which it is on right now) it is a FAR more enjoyable deck than my LP12 was on a Quadraspire rack or my old target shelf. Note that I never did try this comparison with the LP12/Aro, as by that time I had discovered Mana and there's no turning back (unless you like the Ikea aesthetic).

Rant off

John