Rega Arm Mods
Posted by: i am simon 2 on 27 January 2004
I am looking to upgrade my RB 250 with one of the counterweight stub end mods.
The two main contenders as I see it are the Origin Live stub and weight which seems to decople the counterwight whilst increasing rigiity using a torqued bolt. This mod requires you to purchase a traking weight gauge as well.
The other contender is the Michell Tecno Weight, which uses a steel screw-in stub and a low slung wider counterweight which has a traking force adjustment built in, it also comes with a second weight for heavier carts. It also looks better, but that is not important.
As this is quite a tricky thing to dem A-B, I was hoping others might let me have the benefit of their experiance with either of these arm mods.
Simon
[This message was edited by i am simon 2 on TUESDAY 27 January 2004 at 13:25.]
The two main contenders as I see it are the Origin Live stub and weight which seems to decople the counterwight whilst increasing rigiity using a torqued bolt. This mod requires you to purchase a traking weight gauge as well.
The other contender is the Michell Tecno Weight, which uses a steel screw-in stub and a low slung wider counterweight which has a traking force adjustment built in, it also comes with a second weight for heavier carts. It also looks better, but that is not important.
As this is quite a tricky thing to dem A-B, I was hoping others might let me have the benefit of their experiance with either of these arm mods.
Simon
[This message was edited by i am simon 2 on TUESDAY 27 January 2004 at 13:25.]
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by Lars
Simon,
I've done the Origin Live rear stub and counterweight mod. Massive improvement, especially in the bass region. I havn't had the chance to compare it to the Tecno mod, but I remember reading about it HiFi World. I think they said (David Price?) it was good, but not quite up to the OL mod. I'm not sure about the last part, but I remember reading the review of the arm.
BTW I run the 250/OL on my LP12 and it works excellent. I had another LP12 before with Cirkus/Lingo/Ittok LVII and I think that one is bettered by my Cirkus/RB250/OL (no Lingo). This could of course be down to better setup, but I rate the RB250/OL higher than the Ittok LVII.
/Lars
I've done the Origin Live rear stub and counterweight mod. Massive improvement, especially in the bass region. I havn't had the chance to compare it to the Tecno mod, but I remember reading about it HiFi World. I think they said (David Price?) it was good, but not quite up to the OL mod. I'm not sure about the last part, but I remember reading the review of the arm.
BTW I run the 250/OL on my LP12 and it works excellent. I had another LP12 before with Cirkus/Lingo/Ittok LVII and I think that one is bettered by my Cirkus/RB250/OL (no Lingo). This could of course be down to better setup, but I rate the RB250/OL higher than the Ittok LVII.
/Lars
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by solid state
I totaly agree with Lars - I have done the OL structural mod to my RB 300 arm (on a OL TT), and the difference is well worthwhile . I also remember the same article in the mags - so far OL seems to come out on top .
FWIW for best results and accuracy I think you should ALWAYS use a tracking force guage and not rely on any counterwight increments etc to set tracking weight
regards
FWIW for best results and accuracy I think you should ALWAYS use a tracking force guage and not rely on any counterwight increments etc to set tracking weight
regards
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by alex95
I tried the michell mod on my RB300 and sent it back, didnt think it was worthwhile. I enquired about the OL mod and a few people{ one from Dynavector and the other a dealer} said leave the arm alone, the mods are not better just different so I stuck to that advice.
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by solid state
quote:
and a low slung wider cunterweight
A WHAT!!!
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by Lars
alex95,
Are you sure the TT was correctly setup, VTA tracking force etc. Even if the Michell mod isn't as good as the OL mod, it should still make quite a difference. As solid state points out you should always use a tracking force guage to set the correct tracking weigt. I use a guage from Shure which could have been easier to use, but the end result is good.
/Lars
Are you sure the TT was correctly setup, VTA tracking force etc. Even if the Michell mod isn't as good as the OL mod, it should still make quite a difference. As solid state points out you should always use a tracking force guage to set the correct tracking weigt. I use a guage from Shure which could have been easier to use, but the end result is good.
/Lars
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by i am simon 2
Solid
I simply have no idea as to what you are referring.
Simon
who edited his post in time
I simply have no idea as to what you are referring.
Simon
who edited his post in time
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by o.j.
Hy Simon, i did the ol stuctural modification and have now the feeling that my rb3oo sounds similar to an sme arm.More bass open mids and music is more flueing.
But.......imo all great performances i,ve heard
with sme arms where on wobbeling chassis like Lp12 or audiomecca,not on harder chassis like
Xerxes (that works well with an normal Rega Arm),or my Rega p3.I think the point is the rubber damping on the original counterweight.
And notice: Project turntables,also hard chassis;use also a rubber damped counterweight.
on my p3 for me the modification did not do the Prat thing as before my stock rega arm.imo my fault was mixing the different Directions the constructors of hard vs wobble chassis go.
this is my own opinion,interested how other people think about this. O.J.
But.......imo all great performances i,ve heard
with sme arms where on wobbeling chassis like Lp12 or audiomecca,not on harder chassis like
Xerxes (that works well with an normal Rega Arm),or my Rega p3.I think the point is the rubber damping on the original counterweight.
And notice: Project turntables,also hard chassis;use also a rubber damped counterweight.
on my p3 for me the modification did not do the Prat thing as before my stock rega arm.imo my fault was mixing the different Directions the constructors of hard vs wobble chassis go.
this is my own opinion,interested how other people think about this. O.J.
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by alex95
I used a shure gauge with correct tracking for a Rega Elys, the Michell mod looks the business but to my ears didn't improve the sound. I cant adjust the VTA on the rega as its fixed.
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by gavagai
Hello,
I use the michell tecnoweight with my rb600/planar25/dynavector 10X4 mkII. This is a vast improvement over the weight that the arm came with. It is easy to install/use and you can really fine tune a cartridge with this weight. The michell mod allows you to adjust the weight by 0.1 grams. So, when a cartridge specification is between say 1.5-1.9 you can easily adjust, deciding what particular weight sounds the best for your cartridge. I would not recommend rewiring your tonearm or changing the platter, but a better counterweight is a better counterweight.
I use the michell tecnoweight with my rb600/planar25/dynavector 10X4 mkII. This is a vast improvement over the weight that the arm came with. It is easy to install/use and you can really fine tune a cartridge with this weight. The michell mod allows you to adjust the weight by 0.1 grams. So, when a cartridge specification is between say 1.5-1.9 you can easily adjust, deciding what particular weight sounds the best for your cartridge. I would not recommend rewiring your tonearm or changing the platter, but a better counterweight is a better counterweight.
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by Tim Jones
Gavagai -
'Gavagai'? Why does that ring a bell with me? Is it something to do with Quine or Davidson?
Sorry to post off topic...
Tim
'Gavagai'? Why does that ring a bell with me? Is it something to do with Quine or Davidson?
Sorry to post off topic...
Tim
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by quickie
I have tried the Origin Live Mod on a RB250 and 300 on two different decks.
Couldn't tell any difference at all.
Paul.
Couldn't tell any difference at all.
Paul.
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by gavagai
Tim,
Its from a famous passage by Quine regarding radical interpretation. Picked that up while studying with Davidson at Berkeley.
Its from a famous passage by Quine regarding radical interpretation. Picked that up while studying with Davidson at Berkeley.
Posted on: 27 January 2004 by Tim Jones
G -
Now I remember. Very sad to hear about Davidson last year.
Tim
Now I remember. Very sad to hear about Davidson last year.
Tim
Posted on: 28 January 2004 by Lars
NAIMGAIM,
"As this is quite a tricky thing to dem A-B, I was hoping others might let me have the benefit of their experiance with either of these arm mods."
I believe Simon was asking people with experience of these mods...
"You gotta ask yourself is it worth $100 for a 25 cent hunk of machined metal?"
I think $100 of OL mod makes a bigger difference than for instance upgrading from a 252 to a 552...
/Lars
"As this is quite a tricky thing to dem A-B, I was hoping others might let me have the benefit of their experiance with either of these arm mods."
I believe Simon was asking people with experience of these mods...
"You gotta ask yourself is it worth $100 for a 25 cent hunk of machined metal?"
I think $100 of OL mod makes a bigger difference than for instance upgrading from a 252 to a 552...
/Lars
Posted on: 28 January 2004 by gavagai
"Yes, but weight isn't "magic". Sure, having the counterweight closer to where the arm pivots is better. Rega makes a heavier weight and it's only $55."
I agree, I would just like to restate what I said before - The ability to adjust the tracking force by 0.1 grams is very improtant when tuning your cartridge. On my particular set-up, it was easy to hear the difference between say 1.5 grams and 1.9 grams. Using the rega weight and controls on the arm simply is not nearly as accurate as the tecnoweight. Not a necessary upgrade, but there is improvement for a relatively cheap price.
I agree, I would just like to restate what I said before - The ability to adjust the tracking force by 0.1 grams is very improtant when tuning your cartridge. On my particular set-up, it was easy to hear the difference between say 1.5 grams and 1.9 grams. Using the rega weight and controls on the arm simply is not nearly as accurate as the tecnoweight. Not a necessary upgrade, but there is improvement for a relatively cheap price.
Posted on: 28 January 2004 by o.j.
1, i put the scala on the rb300 for the reccomended tracking force,
2. I use the shure gauge for setting the counterweight on the arm at this exact trackingforce.
effect : measurment is exact
....and i have the effect of using the spring
inside the arm,because weight added by spring is physically not the same as added by the counter weight,because the spring weight does not alter the mass relations of the tone arm,and a not used spring is resonating a lot.
imo the spring in the rb 300 is more than 50%of the benefit of a rb300 the other %s result out of the metal rear stub.
as an experienced tweaker i must admit,until
now i could only get other or worse results not better than Roy gandy,concerning rega turntable- arm combinations.so tweaking my turntable means to me: go for a better rega Turntable -arm combination, or go for an other Turntable......maybe Xerxes,or Lp12 (the ones i know)or whats anybodys taste.
package.
2. I use the shure gauge for setting the counterweight on the arm at this exact trackingforce.
effect : measurment is exact
....and i have the effect of using the spring
inside the arm,because weight added by spring is physically not the same as added by the counter weight,because the spring weight does not alter the mass relations of the tone arm,and a not used spring is resonating a lot.
imo the spring in the rb 300 is more than 50%of the benefit of a rb300 the other %s result out of the metal rear stub.
as an experienced tweaker i must admit,until
now i could only get other or worse results not better than Roy gandy,concerning rega turntable- arm combinations.so tweaking my turntable means to me: go for a better rega Turntable -arm combination, or go for an other Turntable......maybe Xerxes,or Lp12 (the ones i know)or whats anybodys taste.
package.
Posted on: 05 February 2004 by o.j.
Hy Rusty B !
A rega arm with bigger rega counterweight
suonds like an rega arm.
an ol structuralmodified arm sounds like quite
another arm. And It is another arm.itis now a rega arm without any damping.no plastic rear stub no spring damping no rubber damping inside the counterweight and the bolt of this modification
that is hard coupled to the tube also makes
the tube resonating in Quite annother way.
on my rega p3 300 i got quite another sound
than the typical rega one.For me this was a no no ,not a better p3 b300 performance.
cannot comment the modified arm on other turntables( until now) but i am interested
who it would work on a lp12.A turntable i did not like with rb300.
can not comment the sound
A rega arm with bigger rega counterweight
suonds like an rega arm.
an ol structuralmodified arm sounds like quite
another arm. And It is another arm.itis now a rega arm without any damping.no plastic rear stub no spring damping no rubber damping inside the counterweight and the bolt of this modification
that is hard coupled to the tube also makes
the tube resonating in Quite annother way.
on my rega p3 300 i got quite another sound
than the typical rega one.For me this was a no no ,not a better p3 b300 performance.
cannot comment the modified arm on other turntables( until now) but i am interested
who it would work on a lp12.A turntable i did not like with rb300.
can not comment the sound
Posted on: 06 February 2004 by o.j.
quote:RustyB my question
Originally posted by RustyB:
OJ,
You're right, it certainly does sound like a totally different arm. It's possible that the stock RB's are tuned to work on the Rega decks, but the O/L is far superior on a Xerxes, and there are lots of people out there using them on LP12s.
to you:which turntable do you use?
As you can see my topic is :rega9, lp12,xerxes for which one to go? and i,m very interested in
opinions of xerxes and lp12 owners with o/lstructuralmodified rega arms in compare to artemiz and ekos.
Posted on: 06 February 2004 by o.j.
Hy naimgaim!
your answer to the BS thing: really
As expected from a professional worker in Moviebusiness.
o.J.(still the owner of
the Webpage: mooneyes.at)
your answer to the BS thing: really
As expected from a professional worker in Moviebusiness.
o.J.(still the owner of
the Webpage: mooneyes.at)