Anti-depressants

Have wondered myself what psychological ills Mick is trying so hard to hide/repress.

Willy.

Willy

I think I am one of the normal ones. I do not get depressed and certainly do not feel the urge to swallow pills.

Regards

Mick

Dear Friends,

I only have known one person with a depressive illness that was diagnosed, and that was a long time ago. She was a lovely person, who became for several years my substitute mother.

The story was quite sad, because she worked for my parents, both in the field picking potataoes and in the house. But she was a depressive and subject to the most abject sadness from time to time. When my parents separated in 1970 she had a total breakdown and was commited to the asylum at Powick, where she was given Electro-convulsive-therapy. She recovered, but my brother and I, even as 8 and 9 year olds, were sensitive enough never to mention it. She was devoted to us, but hated out father, though was totally loyal to him. I don't think self-pity came into it, for what that is worth. She was ill, had the (dreadful) treatment of the day, and made the best of it. She is now over eighty.

I am not sure what that says, except that the situation is by no means black and white, but perhaps rather that mental illness is an illness like any other - not to be despised - but also less understood than many physical ailments. No-one should rush to snap judgements, as until it is more understood, NO ONE really knows the answers, and even the cures are relatively haphazard.

Fredrik

Well MIck, I honestly hope you can keep it up. Life has a nasty knack of catching up with you just when you think things are going well.

My grandmother was a wealthy tax exile who married an equally wealthy man in their tax haven. After their combined fortunes were depleted by his ill-health she had to be rescued with a free plane ticket home bought by the family. The same family where she had argued every week over a few miserable old pence pocket money for her grandchildren while she was still living (in private luxury) with us.

Mick,

Prior to this thread I would have regarded you as one of the normal ones (though I'm probably in a minority there). However your postings in this thead betray a profound ignorance of the subject matter and to persist with you arrogant assertion that all those suffering from depression are merely "wasters", in the face of the presented exeriences of others who have over many postings earned my respect suggests that either I was wrong in my assessment of you as an intelligent and open minded individual intellect or you are repressing something.

On a personal level there is a pre-disposition to depression down the male side of my family. Most of us dealwith it by managing diet, exercise and meditation, however last year an unrelated illness threw me a curve ball. Couldn't do all the things I needed to, the result being I sank into a prolonged depression. I was fortunate in that my spouse spotted this, my GP understood this and the Citalopram worked (few minor side effects as I tapered off the medication). For you to suggest that I am a waster, a leech on your taxes, and should have been deprived of a pharamacutical remedy to my ilesss is rather patronising. Had I been diagonosed with Diabetes would you begrudge me Insulin? Had my kidneys failed is dialysis out of the question? Plaster cast for a broken limb?

Willy.

Further to my post above, I realise that one of my best friends is recovering from depressive illness, and I never thought of it like that. When I attanded technical college (and got Maths, Physics and Electronics at A-level) I also did a year and a bit of English Lang. and Lit. My tutor had a breakdown which actually more or less finished off my English, apart from the fact that the other three are quite hard enough, thank you very much!

Well the poor guy never came back in the second year, but we were both great lovers of the classical repertoire, and I actually single handedly gave him the confidence to come back into town, by being prepared to meet up the street and walk down to the coffee house and chat aimlessly for an hour, and eventually persuading him to share musical mornings with me at my two Worcester houses (homes if you like!).

Again, I would say self-pity was just about the last thing on the agenda. But he posesses just about the thinest emotional skin I know. Too much sensitivity, and then some rough experiences in life seem enough to tip people into incredible sadness.

It should have done for me years ago!

Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik H:
but perhaps rather that mental illness is an illness like any other - not to be despised - but also less understood than many physical ailments.

Mental illness might be a medical problem but psychiatry definitely ain't medicine. Ronnie Laing hit the nail on the head in the sixties as far as I'm concerned. What other branch of medicine treats patients on the basis of conduct alone? What other branch of medicine imprisons people - on the basis of conduct alone?

Willy

There is something in my bones that says swallowing pills for depression is something of a high risk strategy.

The thought of pumping chemicals into ones brain borders on the horrific because we do not know the consequences and also whether or not they are addictive.

Yes a lot of people are "fed up" and often call it depression. Also it is a good excuse to obtain a Doctors certificate to scive off work. I dare say Bruce will confirm that one.

The last war serves as a good example of people working together when under servere pressure. There were people who cried when their house got bombed an justifiably so, but you did not have legions of people running around screaming I am depressed. They simply did not have the luxury of being depressed as the war effort came first. In other words their lives had a strong and over riding purpose which made them less inward looking.

Today someone loses a job and becomes depressed which is plain madness. It is more the ability of not recovering a situation but taking the easy way out and feeling sorry for ones self when life gives you a kick in the wrong place.

I just think that the pill swallowing culture is getting out of control.

Regards

Mick

Not sure whether to laugh or to cry

Peter

Neither, just ignore trolling patter.

Nick

Mick,

A significant part of the problem with clinical depression is that those afflicted don't run around sceaming "I'm depressed". Often they, and those around them don't realise what the problem is as they tend to think of depression in terms of it's common useage (misuseage) as feeling a "bit fed up". A case in point being a local farmer who last week went out to the barn with his shotgun and didn't come back. His youngest daughter found him. His wife is left to manage a large farm, three kids and a mother-in-law with altziemers. I doubt if he even knew that he was suffering from depression let alon broadcasting it to all and sundry.

If we consider the war scenario, a lot of people subject to extreme stress. Strange how so many go on about how they were so much happier then despite all this. Could it be that a bit of stress is a good thing? Of course there were/are those who have a disposition to depression and stress can be a factor in bringing it on. How many of our own soldiers did we shoot during the Great War because they wouldn't (couldn't) fight?

In common with yourself I dislike taking medication (excepting the 16yr old Bruichladdich). I detest going to the doctor (was there last week for ear syringing - wax comes from my mothers side of the family) and did not lightly embark on the course of Citalopram. I was in a situation where I had to do somthing as I simply was not functioning mentally or physically (again few realise the physical debilitation that can come with depression - not that great a leap given that the brain ultimately controls every bodily function).

I was fortunate in having a spouse that spotted the problem, a doctor who treated the problem and a medication that worked (for me). Not everyone is so lucky.

Willy.

quote:

I just think that the pill swallowing culture is getting out of control.

Agreed.

Not to diminish the matter for those who really needs an attention, but I do know too many friends who are taking 'make-me-feel-happy' pills.

Also, an alchoholism as an illness. I don't buy this at all.

It sounds like someone is looking for an excuse for a self pity.

As a still registered psychiatric nurse in UK, I have spent many years trying to get clients 'withdrawn' from mis-prescriptions thoughtlessy prescribed by some GPs/some Consultant etc 'psychiatrists'.

Many people in their life in today's world do get physical-psychological-social etc benefit from wisely-prescribed course/long-lasting MONITORED treatment from modern SSRI anti-depressant medication. Some would benefit more from nothing additional chemically, and others from 'placebo'.

I do believe that what the client says is very important, and I do believe that many people do feel that they benefit from e.g. fluoxetine 'Prozac', in short or long-term use (although there are some who feel worse on such medication).

I believe that, sometimes, people genuinely need anti-depressants to help them get over a hump. But in the long term, they have to change whatever it is in their lives that depress them in the first place. Drugs won't do that.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Arasu:
I believe that, sometimes, people genuinely need anti-depressants to help them get over a hump. But in the long term, they have to change whatever it is in their lives that depress them in the first place. Drugs won't do that.

Steve

... assuming depression isn't biochemical/genetic in origin (ie endogenous). If it's a genetic trait, the pills will have to work and if they don't, you're f*cked. Simple as that.

In reality, one would have to assess the heritability of depressive illness - which would not be easy. Or at least to assess the heritabilty of affective state. My gut feeling (read "guess") would be 0.7.

EW

Earwicker

The simple answer is to cheer yourself up.

Regards

Mick

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Earwicker

The simple answer is to cheer yourself up.

Regards

Mick

Heh! Do you know I hadn't thought of that...!



Take care,
EW

Earwicker

There you go, the simplest advice is often the best.

Glad to have been of help.

Regards

Mick

quote:

The simple answer is to cheer yourself up

Mick - this is priceless entertainment.

So, all those anorexic girls just need to be told to eat?

I had no idea it was that simple.

John.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

Also, an alchoholism as an illness. I don't buy this at all.

I believe that those involved in the treatment of alcoholism use the disease model for treatment because when the problem is approached in that manner the outcomes are better. This is *not* the same as saying that alcoholism is an illness rather than a behavioural problem. I think, however, that when laymen or sufferers get hold of the idea they fail to draw this distinction.

By the way, does anybody really hope to fatten Mr Parry's mind beyond the point where it can fit through the gap between the CDS3 and the Hutter shelf?

Nancy Reagan - just say no.

Mick Parry - just snap out of it.

Fine company.

Nancy Reagan - just say no.

Mick Parry - Cher- just snap out of it.

Three the company.

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
I believe that those involved in the treatment of alcoholism use the disease model for treatment because when the problem is approached in that manner the outcomes are better. This is *not* the same as saying that alcoholism is an illness rather than a behavioural problem. I think, however, that when laymen or sufferers get hold of the idea they fail to draw this distinction.

I suppose it IS a disease in that it is a deleterious trait which results in poor health or even death. It is likely that a genetic effect pre-disposes some people to addictive behaviour and alcohol/substance abuse - especially if they also have a heritable affective disorder.

Without getting too bogged down in semantics, I don't think it's too outlandish to describe alcoholism as a disease.

EW

quote:

Without getting too bogged down in semantics, I don't think it's too outlandish to describe alcoholism as a disease.

Suppose a drunken driver ran over and killed someone, should he/she get off the charge as he/she was suffering from an illness? ( similar to an insanity defense in a murder case )

I agree that it is a behavioral problem.
Perhaps not in the UK, but at least in the US, I've seen some abuse of labeling a behaviral problem as an illness. ( the Twinkie murder case, for instance )

I just see sufferers use it as cruches/excuses rather finding the way to get themselves better.

Strange thing, a skin specialist recently prescribed anti-depressants to me as a treatment for hives. From that I deduced that docs must prescribe the things as a matter of course. I'm probably the least depressed person I know.

I didn't take them & the hives eventually cured themselves.