Anti-depressants

Mick,

quote:

Are you confusing me with Vuk ?

Is it possible to confuse anyone with Vuk?

Joe

Joe

But Vuk was truely scrumptious. If only we had a few more like him.

Regards

Mick

The seasoned negotiator continues to repeat his needs until he wins the argument ... or the other guy kills him out of sheer frustration. Seems fair to me. Can I hold your coat Deane?

Yes, please hold my coat Nime while I slip out of these clothes...

Oogh. Suits you sir!

Nick & JeremyD,

If someone wants to take their own life, that's their choice.

A deep sympathy for those who could not make it but I have a deeper symphathy for those who are left behind.

And I have to make myself clear, I never intended to *attack* ( that's a strong word ) anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

If someone wants to take their own life, that's their choice.

If someone who is depressed decides to take their own life what is it that is informing their decision?

If you feel a deep sympathy for the folk left behind does that not impute some responsibility upon the suicide victim for their actions? If it does - then is the life of the suicide victim truly their "property" to begin with - to be disposed of as if it were property?

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kuma:
If someone who is depressed decides to take their own life what is it that is informing their decision?

Probably a temporary insanity.

quote:

If you feel a deep sympathy for the folk left behind does that not impute some responsibility upon the suicide victim for their actions?

Nope.
That's finger pointing and passing a responsibility elsewhere.
Again, I am not saying this is always true. There's always an exception.

My mate's sister committed suicide because she was molested by her stepfather regularly and her mother was too drunk and ignorant to prevent it.

However, the rest of her siblings who were too young at that time to do anything and still deal with the pain and anger to this date.

I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for the offender and he should have gone to jail for his crime.

quote:

If it does - then is the life of the suicide victim truly their "property" to begin with - to be disposed of as if it were property?

The life belongs to you.
What you do with it is entirely up to you.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kuma:
If someone who is depressed decides to take their own life what is it that is informing their decision?

Probably a temporary insanity.

Interesting that you should use *that* particular word Kuma.

Insanity is certainly an illness and none the less so for being temporary. So do you see depression as a genuine illness?

Deane

quote:

Insanity is certainly an illness and none the less so for being temporary. So do you see depression as a genuine illness?

Deane,

Some depressions are illness.
But some cases are stupidity.

Kuma

Just exactly what method do you use to tell the difference? A feeling? A thought process?

Science?

Deane

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
Kuma

Just exactly what method do you use to tell the difference? A feeling? A thought process?

Science?

Deane,

Depends on the circumstances.

When I was in the high school, a fellow school mate commited suicde.

The reason?

He could not get into the *proper* university and he could not bare the family shame.

Well, he wasted his life for nothing.

But in Japan, a social structure is such that this type of needless suicides are rather common, unfortunately.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
Some depressions are illness.
But some cases are stupidity.

Almost every word you write betrays your profound ignorance. When I read your posts I feel embarrassed on your behalf. Please stop this.

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
If you keep attacking me I shall become depressed.

Heh! It's your sense of humour that saves the day, Mick!

EW

quote:

Originally posted by JeremyD:

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
Some depressions are illness.
But some cases are stupidity.

Almost every word you write betrays your profound ignorance. When I read your posts I feel embarrassed on your behalf. Please stop this.

Jeremy,

When we deal with controversial subject such as depression and suicide, it's bound to be some disagreement amongst people.

But I am still puzzled what conents of my post offended you.

The subject like this probably is best not to be discussed but, hey, this is a padded cell after all.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

When we deal with controversial subject such as depression

Don't flatter yourself Kuma. There's really nothing controversial about depression at all. In fact, an absolutely enourmous corpus of knowledge exists on the subject and its consequences - all of it subject to careful study and disseminated through peer review journals.

In other words it's medical science Kuma. I am tempted to use profanity when I say that. Christ, you should see what I've deleted before posting in answer to you and Mick Parry on this thread.

Deane

Deane

Whether you like what Kuma and I say is largely irrelevant. The indisputable fact is that a large percentage of the population agree with everything we say.

If you do not believe me, apply for a job and tell them you suffer from depression and see how far you go.

Also issuing a profanity alienates an awful lot of people and lets down the people and the argument you are trying to project.

When you issue a profanity or get too personal, a lot of people in the nuetral camp consider that you have lost the plot.

If you are near to issuing a profanity, perhaps it is time you let someone else take over.

Regards

Mick

An unconvincing argument Mick. Were I to apply for a job and tell them I was ill then I am sure the results would be the same as telling them I suffered from depression.

Depression is an illness. You assert that it is not an illness but advance no actual argument in support of that assertion. You have not answered anybodys' points but merely repeat that you are unsympathetic to that particular kind of suffering.

I'm a real person Mick, with real feelings, compassion and finite patience. I make no excuse for bringing some of my humanity to a thread of this type.

Oh, and by the way Mick, depression is a disorder that affects mood. Emotion is an entirely different thing. Every one of your assertions has failed to draw any distinction between mood and emotion.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

Insanity is certainly an illness and none the less so for being temporary. So do you see depression as a genuine illness?

Deane,

Some depressions are illness.
But some cases are stupidity.

Kuma,

All clinical depression is an illness. Which, as has been previously stated, is fatal in about 15% of cases.

A lot of people who say they're "depressed" are really just feeling a bit glum. They don't need medical intervention. A good walk, music, etc. would generally sort these folks out and it's within their control to take such action.

Those with clinical depression have a malfunction in brain process/chemistry that impairs/removes from them the ability to function normally both mentally and physically. The suggestion that they should "pull themselves together" is akin to suggesting that a person with a broken spine should "walk it off".

Please don't confuse these two conditions.

Willy.

quote:

Depression is an illness.

Deane.

I never claimed it wasn't.
My point was that not all cases are not and too many people resort to heavy-duty medication unnecessary for the cure.

You ought to stop taking what I say so personally and I appreciate refraining from using profanity and name calling.

I realise the vast knowledge and research exist in the matter, but the science still fails to answer many questions concerning a human brain.

Willy,

I never claimed all the depression are not illness nor confused the two.

As I stated earlier, a clinial depression patience needs medication to stablise the condition.

A friend's wife is bi-polar. She needs meds for preventing from being suicidal.
And that's a well justified use of drugs.

My beef has always been too many people resort to heavy use of drugs for minor *blues*.

But how you define * minor* seems to be vague.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

I realise the vast knowledge and research exist in the matter, but the science still fails to answer many questions concerning a human brain.

Indeed, one only has to scratch the surface of the field to find that a great deal of psychiatric medicine is moulded around a very grey area - no pun intended.

For instance, look into the studies in the major peer reviewed journals in respect of the pharmacokinetics and action of the serotonin reuptake inhibitors like Fluoxetine and Paroxetine and you will find statements like "serotonin is thought to be responsible for mood..." (my italics). Only a certain amount can be studied in vitro - the rest has to be based on careful and deliberate experiments with chemical agents given to live subjects.

What is interesting to me is that you realise that "vast knowledge and research exist in the matter" but still stick doggedly to your rather flimsy and opaque position. That is ignorance. I agree with JeremyD.

I certainly envy you for having lived a life untouched by a serious depressive illness in one you love. I sincerely doubt you would be making such blithe statements as you have if you had been touched personally by such a debilitating illness.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

A friend's wife is bi-polar.

Ping "unipolar depression" into a search engine and read some abstracts.

Kuma

I certainly envy you for having lived a life untouched by a serious depressive illness in one you love. I sincerely doubt you would be making such blithe statements as you have if you had been touched personally by such a debilitating illness.

Rather than editing my post I will retract that paragraph as I had posted before reading your response to Willy. Bipolar Affective Disorder is a baffling and nasty disease in my experience and takes many forms.

You state that too many resort to drugs but nobody - not even physicians - can prescribe medicines for themselves. Perhaps you ought to aim your criticisms at those who too willingly prescribe psychiatric medicines at their patients' behest?

Deane