Anti-depressants

Deane

Being emotional often leads to running off at a tangent and that is precisely what you are doing now with your somewhat "holier than thou" attitude. We all know you are a caring understanding human being (my God you are sooooo nice) whilst Kuma and I are a couple of assholes.

Kuma and I have never said depression is not an illness. What we have said several times that in a lot of cases it is mainly a case of self pity. I would also add to that, attention seeking.

Also you want to get real and learn not to come back with twaddle just to win an individual argument.

Employers regard depression as a definate no no.

That proves that there is a stigma attached to it, mainly because it is regarded as a condition of the weak willed and the unreliable. I know you disagree with that but none the less you are going to have to accept that most employers will not touch anyone who has or is suffering from depression with a bargepole.

You are onto a loser in this case.

Regards

Mick

Mick

Stigma is seldom attached to anything by people who are capable of reasoning.

Twaddle? I'd say that collapsing all arguments back to the needs of capitalists is twaddle.

Assholes? I don't think either you or Kuma are arseholes.

On the other hand, the most useful insight I ever had into my own personality is that I am definitely an arsehole.

Deane

quote:

On the other hand, the most useful insight I ever had into my own personality is that I am definitely an arsehole.

Deane

Now that you recognise it, do something about it.

Regards

Mick

PS You have really depressed me telling me I am not an asshole....I am I really am.

Mick,I think he should just sit on it.

Mick

Please tell me that American spellings have not pervaded the English language in the motherland.

Perhaps the perception many people have of depression is rooted in the difference between the usage of the word in everyday conversation and the meaning given to the word in medical science?

Deane

quote:

Originally posted by Roy T:
Mick,I think he should just sit on it.

I'll be happy as long as it's pointing at the ground.

quote:

I sincerely doubt you would be making such blithe statements as you have if you had been touched personally by such a debilitating illness.

Your assumption is wrong.

quote:

Perhaps you ought to aim your criticisms at those who too willingly prescribe psychiatric medicines at their patients' behest?

I realise many doctors are too liberal giving out prescriptions ( including my general practician ).

Again, that's nothing but passing responsibilities to others. A patient has a right to refuse or get second or third opinions before taking a doctor's advice as a face value. In medical field, for sure it's a * buyer beware* situation.

A medial malpractice/incompetence is another topic in itself that I do not wish to get into. ( I am sure I am bound to *piss off* someone here )

Message from an interested party living with kuma:

sssssh...grab a hankie, take your meds,sit in front of the telly and have a manly sob session......not kuma

p.s . I'll chip in for the teddy

Kuma

I retracted - please see my post above.

I don't see that the doctor/patient relationship is comparable to the realationship between a service provider and a consumer. If a patient presents with depression and a doctor prescribes antidepressants why would the patient need to seek a second or third opinion? The responsibility is all on the doctor as he/she is a professional in the truest sense of the word - owing ethical and considered practice for the greater good as well as the good of the patient.

Deane

I'd prefer a light negligee to a teddy - if you would be willing to chip in for that...

not kuma

That actually could be against any religion I might join in the future. Depending on the frillwear in question.

Kuma wrote:

quote:

If someone wants to take their own life, that's their choice.

If you look at the Irish demographic data I posted, you will see large systematic differences in the rates for each region, gender and age group --- whatever it may be, it is not a 'free' choice.

These systematic differences are referred to as excess mortality by epidemiologists in that they cannot be explained by chance variation alone and suggest the possibility of intervention, whether it be by medical, psychological or wider social policies.

Nick

Nick

It is always a free choice.

You change the pattern of what it is that is causing you to consider taking your own own life which incidentally is a pretty cowardly thing to do.

That change may entail doing something drastic such as moving house, emigrating, divorcing or whatever. But it is better than jumping off a building.

Regards

Mick

Thare are lots of different ways of viewing the "morality" and cultural ethics - if I can put it that way - of suicide. First of all, I should say that I think it's a basic human right to be able to choose the moment and means of one's final departure from life. I think ANYONE, regardless of their state of mental and/or physical health, should be able to go to their GP and request euthanasia. If I want to die, that's MY business and no one else's. So many people kill themselves in hideous ways becasue they can't get proper medical assistance in dying.

That aside, one of the symptoms of major depression can be "suicidal ideation". It's extremely unpleasant I can assure you, and without medical intervention of some sort, a good many people suffering in this way kill themselves because it seems a much better option that remaining alive; and if you're feeling like that, it bloody well is. I must disagree with professor Parry's assertion that it's cowardly: no matter how bad you feel, it still takes some doing to go the whole hog.

Fortunately drugs are available which treat depression with some success, although they're all a bit slow and hit-and-miss. Nonetheless without them, for better or for worse, I for one would be dead.

Best wishes,

EW

Mick

Those useful coping behaviours you mention are often at a very low level in a person with clinical depression, which is why the person can feel trapped by their condition. Raising the levels of such behaviours would be a direct part of many psychological interventions and an indirect consequence of taking some types of medication.

Nick

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Deane


Kuma and I have never said depression is not an illness. What we have said several times that in a lot of cases it is mainly a case of self pity. I would also add to that, attention seeking.


Mick

This is where many lose the plot and is a good illustration. Self pity is NOT depression, a form of depression or some sub category of depression. Neither is feeling sad, hopeless, unable to cope and all that. People suffering from clinical depression don't usually go around moaning about it (although psycosmatic illnesses are common). Those who have no sympathy with people ‘who allow themselves to get into such a state’ have every right to. But the same argument must also apply to arthritis, leukaemia, heart failure, diabetes, and just about any other medical condition you can think of. To single out depressive illness as a condition that sufferers have any control over goes back to the use of the word ‘depression’ to describe mood swings and emotions – which aren’t remotely the same. Everyone knows how to cheer themselves up. If you really are suffering from depression you likely won’t have a clue this is happening to you. Treatments can be very effective and are not indicated for life in many cases. But the condition is hugely under diagnosed - ironic when you consider how many people claim to be depressed. I believe that in Germany (to name but one case) they have a far better vocabulary in this area, which leads to less confusion.

Cheers

Harry

Harry, good post but a waste of energy ( which I'm sure you know )

Earwicker

It's good to hear that life has improved and that you have found a way to manage your depression.

For what it's worth, I admire your willingness to speak openly of the subject here on the forum.

And I think it is for the better that you, for one, are not dead.

Deane

quote:

Originally posted by bjorne:
Harry, good post but a waste of energy ( which I'm sure you know )

Hi Bjorne. Nice to hear from ya.

I've been working all day - so it was a break of sorts. I wouldn't presume to change anybody's POV - perish the thought.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Whether you like what Kuma and I say is largely irrelevant. The indisputable fact is that a large percentage of the population agree with everything we say.

Such prejudices are unfortunate but irrelevant, except insofar as their potential to harm the lives and recovery of the depressed - not least through sharing the same prejudices against themselves. It was only after I finally learnt to stop browbeating myself with kuma/Mick-esque prejudices that I started making serious progress.

A more interesting statistic would be the percentage of researchers and health professionals that agrees with you.

quote:

If you do not believe me, apply for a job and tell them you suffer from depression and see how far you go.

If an employer is to use medical judgement to decide a candidate's suitability, that judgement should be made by a suitably qualified medical professional. To do otherwise is both unprofessional and unjust.